Transmission Fluid / Service

[El Huapo]

I'm just wondering. Which other manufactures using ZF transmissions recommend oil changes?

My old 2004 BMW Z4 with a ZF trans was claimed by BMW to have a lifetime fluid. I saw somewhere that ZF recommended a fluid change by 100K (don't recall if it was miles or kilometers now). No dipstick either.

Big warning on the BMW forum: Make sure the refill plug above the pan can be removed BEFORE draining the fluid. Mine was indeed stuck. With a lot of effort/time, penetrating oil for Aluminum and a heat gun, I got it out but it was a close thing. Just heads-up.

 

[JPT]

My old 2004 BMW Z4 with a ZF trans was claimed by BMW to have a lifetime fluid. I saw somewhere that ZF recommended a fluid change by 100K (don't recall if it was miles or kilometers now). No dipstick either.

Big warning on the BMW forum: Make sure the refill plug above the pan can be removed BEFORE draining the fluid. Mine was indeed stuck. With a lot of effort/time, penetrating oil for Aluminum and a heat gun, I got it out but it was a close thing. Just heads-up.

I'm trying to see which Auto manufactures (using ZF transmissions) recommend fluid changes. So far since I've had my first ZF in my A4, I've only heard of people on forums saying ZF recommends fluid changes, but I haven't heard of an auto manufacture using a ZF recommending it. So, the member I was quoting stated there were other auto manufactures that recommend changes, I just wanted to know which.

I wont touch mine, I have a Maxcare lifetime warranty, my manual states lifetime, I will show them a lifetime... I also haven't touched in in my A4 either which has been out of warranty for 10 years.

 

[BLUEDERANGO]

JPT asked what other manufacturers recommended ZF oill changes.. well the list is long but let's start simple,, BMW, Mercedes Benz. Audi,Volvo... there are more but that's enough.don't belive me, look it up!

 

[JPT]

JPT asked what other manufacturers recommended ZF oill changes.. well the list is long but let's start simple,, BMW, Mercedes Benz. Audi,Volvo... there are more but that's enough.don't belive me, look it up!

As far as I know, BMW calls it "long-term" and does not recommend fluid changes (my BMW is stick, but I just looked it up), Audi does not (I have an A4), I believe MB also does not describe an oil change interval.

Volvo, I have no idea.

 

[njjeff201]

Don't know about RAM but when I worked for Ford we dropped the pan, let it drain, turned the crank by hand to locate the drain plug on the torque convertor which held the majority of the ATF. On the full sized Fords they had the C6 trans. Held about 10 - 12 quarts total. We'd change the filter screen & adjust the front & rear bands right on the trany case. Easy peesy!!! New screen & pan gasket, road test, the entire job hour or hour & half out the door... DONE! PS... a diagnostic tool for trany temp., it's in one of the menus right on the dash.

 

[El Huapo]

I'm trying to see which Auto manufactures (using ZF transmissions) recommend fluid changes. So far since I've had my first ZF in my A4, I've only heard of people on forums saying ZF recommends fluid changes, but I haven't heard of an auto manufacture using a ZF recommending it. So, the member I was quoting stated there were other auto manufactures that recommend changes, I just wanted to know which.

I wont touch mine, I have a Maxcare lifetime warranty, my manual states lifetime, I will show them a lifetime... I also haven't touched in in my A4 either which has been out of warranty for 10 years.

Huh? If you meant me, I said ZF recommended fluid changes, I don't know about other auto manufacturers. But back several years ago when I had the Z4, BMW said "Lifetime Fluid", implying no need for changing. And I'm referring to a 6-speed ZF automatic trans, I know zero about the German manual trannys.
BTW: I've not used my truck very much and haven't abused it so I plan on changing the fluid at 60K (my usual) which may be a long time to come. If I were to start hammering it, I'd change it sooner, being rather OCD/ADD all my life. Happy Trails and Good Luck!

 

[scottp1951]

The key here is reading what the sticker says. I will paraphrase it. Use only fluid approved for the 8 speed transmission. They make it difficult for you to get the parts and fluids to drain the transmission. I've seen shops that use a generic fluid for every transmission. Same for motor oil and filters. You know that one filter that's Orange and starts with F

 

[JPT]

Huh? If you meant me, I said ZF recommended fluid changes, I don't know about other auto manufacturers. But back several years ago when I had the Z4, BMW said "Lifetime Fluid", implying no need for changing. And I'm referring to a 6-speed ZF automatic trans, I know zero about the German manual trannys.
BTW: I've not used my truck very much and haven't abused it so I plan on changing the fluid at 60K (my usual) which may be a long time to come. If I were to start hammering it, I'd change it sooner, being rather OCD/ADD all my life. Happy Trails and Good Luck!

I was replying to you, to basically let you know that you were not actually answering the question I was asking, nor were you the person I originally quoted... I was responding to another post that stated that there were auto manufactures that recommended ZF fluid changes, by asking for examples of which manufactures they were...

You quoted me before that, basically answering a question I never asked.

(this is not meant to be disrespectful, but I'm sure it came across so. I apologize in advance, please don't take it that way)

I still have yet to hear of an actual auto manufacture that recommends fluid changes. So, for the list of auto manufactures that use ZF transmissions, I find it hard to believe they all either got together, or somehow all came to the same conclusion of "lets pull one over all our customers by not recommending fluid changes."

I think they probably all did a risk vs reward assessment on fluid changes and determined that the chances of these transmission failing because of a lack of fluid changes is so small it is safer to not change it vs having someone change it incorrectly (which is more likely than one would think).

 

[randyr6]

Read what was stated. Never did I say it was a Stellantis product. I said it is IN a Stellantis product and therefore whatever recommendations are made from there is what is followed. ZF can make recommendations however they are not the final retailer. To discredit someone for giving sound manufacture recommendations is as negligent as it gets. @JPT stated this correctly and gave good detail as to why. These transmissions are extremely sensitive. I have seen aftermarket shops ruin these "rebuilding" them and simply servicing them. There's a reason they are classified as a non-serviceable transmission. Giving those who do not understand this poor advice and them reaping those consequences is flat out wrong.

I have installed 3rd party products in the natural gas field for 25 years. We NEVER go by the manufacturers suggestions about maintenance, volume and rate of flow. These are set via our very well-educated engineers who know how the third-party products are is used and perform in our proprietary systems. Many times, our maintenance is above what is required and many times this voids the manufactures warranty because we dismantled the unit to do extra maintenance, and we cannot reassemble unit under the factory sterile conditions. That is a risk assessment taken via our engineers and is recommended to lengthen the life of the unit and to get it to perform to our specifications.
As for me if Ram states it is unserviceable then that just means it's not cost effective to repair or maintain. This is the same thought process our engineers use for our unserviceable "throw away units"., it's just not worth the cost to replace diaphragms, springs, labor and a host of other parts which may cost $40.00 where a new unit may cost $26.00 to replace.
I have trust in people until they prove me wrong. Podcast, IMHO was/is correct, according to RAM the unit should be rebuilt/replace entirely if there are issues-however it is to be left alone unless there are issue's, therefore unserviceable because of the stringent guidelines the manufacture has for assembly of the tranny. That is not hard for me to believe as I have seen the damage done to equipment with the wrong or contaminated fluid used.
This forum has become a house of bashing when a different opinion is made. I'm sure someone will feel the need to admonish me for my comments.
Many have stated the service manager should not be one because he is a lousy one, personally I have trust in what he stated. RAM has a reason they stated the tranny as "unserviceable" (I'm sure it has to do with the cost of, fluids, parts and possible contaminants versa the life span after such work therefore increasing the chance of returned work) that's good enough for me, heck, they build the best truck in the world for the working man!

 

[andymax]

Negative ghost rider. I wrenched for 15 years prior to advising and now managing for 10 years. The rear wheel drive version of these trans don't even have a serviceable trans filter, it's located within the molding of the trans pan itself and there is no access less a small port.

If you had any clue, you'd know that ALL the ZF transmissions we are discussing here have the filter embedded in the pan...not just 2WD.

The reason they recommend not servicing this is to not expose anything to the atmosphere, and that's straight from ZF themselves. It's not just a Stellantis recommendation. It's not about fluid level, it's about particle contamination.

Until you produce a ZF document that says specifically this I call utter BS. IF, and ONLY IF, ZF recommends this, despite also issuing service recommendations for the 8HP's which completely counter your statement, I suggest it is only at the behest of Stellantis marketing, so they can claim "LIFETIME" in their marketing, and for sales guys like you to tout this garbage. To hide behind Stellantis' statements is exactly why dealerships have the reputation they have. This is a classic case of choosing to be 'by the book' vs doing the right thing.

Hate to get involved here, but if you service your eight speed, do you stick with the ZF fluid or do you use after market compatible? Thanks and sorry if I’m opening a can of worms here.

I and many others have used Valvoline MaxLife with absolutely zero issues over many millions of miles collectively. Many choose to stay with the ZF fluid for peace of mind and that's great, but ZF doesn't make transmission fluid, they buy it under private label agreements. This is a matter of personal preference, but know that there've been many problem free miles on non-ZF, or Ram-branded fluid.

 

[rmill]

I'm sure it has to do with the cost of, fluids, parts

Dorman pan with replaceable filter plus Maxlife ATF $150.