True or Not?

[BossHogg]

2y ago lots around here were bare.
Now they are full of truck and they are back to having the ******** 10K off in the window.

Same here, lots that were empty are now beyond full and yard stock is spilling over into the grassy areas. Used car lots are looking thin.

I've watched several of the YouTube truck and car channels, they are all saying the same thing, dealer stock is high with many days of supply available and interest rates for new vehicles pushing 10%. My wife is trying to buy a new Bronco (body on frame) but the plant that assembles them is on strike, her dealer did a search for a vehicle and found many but the dealers that have them won't give them up.

I think the UAW selected a bad time to strike with new vehicle demand at a low. It kind of takes the pressure off of the manufacturers and puts pressure on the striking members. How long can these folks last on $500 a week before taxes? It is also important to note the UAW president is still collecting his $438K salary.

 

[Travelin Ram]

My wife is trying to buy a new Bronco (body on frame) but the plant that assembles them is on strike, her dealer did a search for a vehicle and found many but the dealers that have them won't give them up.

I have just about given up trying to understand what some dealers are thinking these days. Over the summer we spent some time in a modestly sized Colorado town; the Ford shop had 15 Broncos parked outside, all with market adjustment stickers of +10-15k on them. Every one I looked at was a customer order that apparently had been refused by the buyer.

I strolled around for about a half hour eying the merch. One salesman said hello in passing. Nobody approached me or offered to sell me anything.

It’s like these businesses got a taste of being in the catbird seat, and they are clinging to that idea that we have no choice but to beg them to sell us a vehicle.

Unless the manufacturer is propping up their floor plan costs, the inventory must be eating their lunch. But they don’t seem to care.

 

[turkeybird56]

I have just about given up trying to understand what some dealers are thinking these days. Over the summer we spent some time in a modestly sized Colorado town; the Ford shop had 15 Broncos parked outside, all with market adjustment stickers of +10-15k on them. Every one I looked at was a customer order that apparently had been refused by the buyer.

I strolled around for about a half hour eying the merch. One salesman said hello in passing. Nobody approached me or offered to sell me anything.

It’s like these businesses got a taste of being in the catbird seat, and they are clinging to that idea that we have no choice but to beg them to sell us a vehicle.

Unless the manufacturer is propping up their floor plan costs, the inventory must be eating their lunch. But they don’t seem to care.

I had a 2015 ED. Back on 1 Aug 2018, I strolled into the dealership looking for a Hemi. I walked all around lot, inside, looked, NOT 1 salesman approached me. I drove 45 miles to Another County, dealership and once looking inside, approached, and low and behold, 2 hours later I walked out of that dealership with MY 19 and owned the vehicle out the door.

ADDED: In December past, I was looking at a GMC 1500 Sierra, 5.3, all the AFM turned off/disabled. I told the "salesperson" exactly what I wanted for MY 19, and what I would pay. Every time they came back with these BS offers, no where what I wanted. Well, out the door I go. I got a kazillion emails and phone calls, BUT they would not meet my price/money issues, which explains why MY 19 RAM is pleasantly parked in front of house. Salesperson must think I be a turnip from some garden, not my 1st go around.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Same here, lots that were empty are now beyond full and yard stock is spilling over into the grassy areas. Used car lots are looking thin.

I've watched several of the YouTube truck and car channels, they are all saying the same thing, dealer stock is high with many days of supply available and interest rates for new vehicles pushing 10%. My wife is trying to buy a new Bronco (body on frame) but the plant that assembles them is on strike, her dealer did a search for a vehicle and found many but the dealers that have them won't give them up.

Everyone's crystal ball is cloudy but here's my take:

The upper end market and "halo" cars will remain strong for longer than people are tending to assume. Broncos are still unobtainium. Raptors of any stripe, C8 Corvettes, that new weird baja Porsche, etc aren't going to get very soft soon as the demand still exceeds supply. The typical buyer isn't as affected by interest rates, is more recession proof, etc.

The economy and lower mid-market is going to get soft faster. Those are the overextended debt ridden sub-prime borrowers who are defaulting at increasing rates. They are the first affected by interest rates, don't have the fudge room in their income to absorb it, and are the first affected by a recession. The lower middle class simply isn't as resilient now and there's more pressure from things like automation, foreign workers, and the 'gig economy' vs 'work here for life' economic shifts.

 

[ranchhopper]

Trucks used to be pretty simple. They had roll up windows and few amenities. Then truck dealers started to realize that the money was in fancy well equiped trucks. Now the public is sold on heated mirrors and leather seats. Americans seem to be vulnerable to all of the sales hype. Sure you can spend $100k or more for a truck, but why would you? I have a 2022 Ram Bighorn and it feels like a spaceship compared to my last 7.3 liter Ford. It cost $68k and is holding its value very well.

Vehicles last a lot longer than they used to. People old enough to remember, have experience with American cars and trucks that did not go much past 100k miles. I expect a diesel truck to go 300k miles. I expect a Lexus car to go well over 200 k miles with the right maintenance.

I tried to order a single cab GMC with roll up windows and no power door locks they wouldnt build it for me.

 

[Tulecreeper]

I tried to order a single cab GMC with roll up windows and no power door locks they wouldnt build it for me.

I did, too, last year. My last truck was a Silverado that treated me fine for many years, so my first stop was the Chevy dealer. I had gotten online and built it first, then went to the dealer and the first salesman that walked up I handed him the build sheet and said, "Sell me this truck." He looked, then said, "Can't get that truck. No one is buying regular cab trucks." I replied, "If you order this for me, you will have at least one person who is." He was adamant. Then he said, "I have a bunch on the lot that would fit your needs." I asked, "Regular cab?" He said, "No," and I walked. And he let me.

Ford told me the same thing, although they were a bit more polite about it. So, here I am with a RAM because they were the only ones to let me order the truck I actually wanted and needed. Not some shiny rocket with $20,000 of bells and whistles I would never use. The only options I got were tow hooks, the brake controller, and the spray-in bedliner - and they gave me the liner for free because they screwed up something else.

 

[BossHogg]

Broncos are still unobtainium.

I don't know where that comes from, perhaps it is regional. No crystal ball here, I was at the lots looking. Bronco sports are all over the place, if I do a search from the Ford site, I can find dozens of them on dealer lots within a 50-mile search of 48363. If I go to my wife's dealer, Suburban Ford of Romeo Michigan, their lot has rows of Bronco Sports. The same is true with the Broncos albeit not as many. The issue we have is my wife wants the Outer Banks trim with the Lux package which is more difficult to find in dealer yard stock. Now that the strike looks to be over, she can place an order if she hasn't lost interest.

 

[BossHogg]

I have just about given up trying to understand what some dealers are thinking these days. Over the summer we spent some time in a modestly sized Colorado town; the Ford shop had 15 Broncos parked outside, all with market adjustment stickers of +10-15k on them. Every one I looked at was a customer order that apparently had been refused by the buyer.

I strolled around for about a half hour eying the merch. One salesman said hello in passing. Nobody approached me or offered to sell me anything.

It’s like these businesses got a taste of being in the catbird seat, and they are clinging to that idea that we have no choice but to beg them to sell us a vehicle.

Unless the manufacturer is propping up their floor plan costs, the inventory must be eating their lunch. But they don’t seem to care.

At first, my wife's dealer told us they could give us much of a discount on a new Bronco but I told him what I would pay and if they wanted the business they would work with me. He changed his attitude a bit and said yea, we can work a deal. The days of no deals and market adjustment prices are over for now.

It is a larger Ford Dealer but his yard stock, especially the F150s is overflowing. The same is true with another dealer just west of us.

It could be just this area but it doesn't look like their showroom was busy the three times we were there.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I don't know where that comes from, perhaps it is regional. No crystal ball here, I was at the lots looking. Bronco sports are all over the place, if I do a search from the Ford site, I can find dozens of them on dealer lots within a 50-mile search of 48363. If I go to my wife's dealer, Suburban Ford of Romeo Michigan, their lot has rows of Bronco Sports. The same is true with the Broncos albeit not as many. The issue we have is my wife wants the Outer Banks trim with the Lux package which is more difficult to find in dealer yard stock. Now that the strike looks to be over, she can place an order if she hasn't lost interest.

Bronco sports aren't Broncos in anything but name, similar to that Mustang crossover EV being a Mustang. It's a Ford Escape with a few upgrades and body work. Zero interest in the sport.

The actual body on frame Bronco is, and has been, very difficult to find. Even ordering one was fairly unlikely to get you one, as orders rolled over year to year unfilled. If you find one on the lot, it's usually got $10k or more in ADM. Used ones with 20k miles are $5k more than sticker when new, but still cheaper than a new one due to all the MSRP hikes.

 

[Travelin Ram]

Unobtanium? Not these days.



Montrose CO. There were 6 more in other places around the same lot.

 

[BossHogg]

Bronco sports aren't Broncos in anything but name, similar to that Mustang crossover EV being a Mustang. It's a Ford Escape with a few upgrades and body work. Zero interest in the sport.

The actual body on frame Bronco is, and has been, very difficult to find. Even ordering one was fairly unlikely to get you one, as orders rolled over year to year unfilled. If you find one on the lot, it's usually got $10k or more in ADM. Used ones with 20k miles are $5k more than sticker when new, but still cheaper than a new one due to all the MSRP hikes.

I don't know what time frame you are thinking in, at one time you were absolutely correct but not today, not here, and not at my dealer.

 

[BossHogg]

Unobtanium? Not these days.

View attachment 530738

Montrose CO. There were 6 more in other places around the same lot.

Any Outer Bank trims with the Lux package, that is what my wife is looking for. I'd fly her out to get it, heck, I'd come with her and we could swing by Mesa AZ on the drive back and visit some of our kids.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Unobtanium? Not these days.

View attachment 530738

Montrose CO. There were 6 more in other places around the same lot.

Good, hopefully it's shaking loose. Quick glance online here still shows $2k-$10k in ADM or other junk dealer add-ons in a 50 mile radius.

 

[1stindoor]

I think a lot of it (dealer inventory and willingness to trade) is regional. When I finally decided to start looking to trade my 2018 Mega Cab 2500, I had an extremely difficult time finding a new one. My "want," was somewhat of a unicorn. After many hours searching lots across the country I found exactly 15 that met most of what I wanted. My first choice was in Galveston...which was sold by another salesman while I was in negotiations with my salesman regarding shipping. We had already worked out the trade value of mine.

My second choice, is the one I have now, 2023 Laramie Mega Cab 2500 with the 6.4. I found it in S Florida, and almost $10k under sticker. The same truck...exactly the same build except the color, was almost $12,000 more in Maryland. The dealership in Florida shipped it to me and picked up my trade-in. I think the days of walking the lots are all but over unless you're looking for a used car. Even then I would probably do most of my "looking" online and start negotiating via email and text before stepping on the lot.

 

[Tulecreeper]

I think a lot of it (dealer inventory and willingness to trade) is regional. When I finally decided to start looking to trade my 2018 Mega Cab 2500, I had an extremely difficult time finding a new one. My "want," was somewhat of a unicorn. After many hours searching lots across the country I found exactly 15 that met most of what I wanted. My first choice was in Galveston...which was sold by another salesman while I was in negotiations with my salesman regarding shipping. We had already worked out the trade value of mine.

My second choice, is the one I have now, 2023 Laramie Mega Cab 2500 with the 6.4. I found it in S Florida, and almost $10k under sticker. The same truck...exactly the same build except the color, was almost $12,000 more in Maryland. The dealership in Florida shipped it to me and picked up my trade-in. I think the days of walking the lots are all but over unless you're looking for a used car. Even then I would probably do most of my "looking" online and start negotiating via email and text before stepping on the lot.

Other than a cursory glance, I've never done that because no lot I've ever been on has had the vehicle I wanted at the time I wanted to purchase. I've always gone straight to a salesman and told him/her what I wanted and ordered it.

 

[markabby]

in all fairness to the unions, they're the ones who actually touch the vehicle being built. The number of union employees to non-union or salaried employees is vastly different.

in each facility there are hundreds of salary employees who also depend on the sales of the vehicles and often their wages and benefits are more than the union.

One only has to look at corporate headquarters high rise buildings belonging to the auto manufacturers, they are literally filled with secretaries, engineers, HR people, CEOs, CFO's, numerous vice presidents, etc... and they also depend on the auto sales for their wages.

now, is it really fair to ask the actual workers to take a hit on their wages and benefits while salaried people keep getting raises? I'm not saying unions are the greatest, in fact, i can bore you for hours telling you of some real corruption in auto plants by both union and management.

my point is the ridiculous prices being thrown at us isn't all the unions fault.

i should also add the dealer's costs as well...paying sales people, mechanics, owners, etc.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

in all fairness to the unions, they're the ones who actually touch the vehicle being built. The number of union employees to non-union or salaried employees is vastly different.

in each facility there are hundreds of salary employees who also depend on the sales of the vehicles and often their wages and benefits are more than the union.

One only has to look at corporate headquarters high rise buildings belonging to the auto manufacturers, they are literally filled with secretaries, engineers, HR people, CEOs, CFO's, numerous vice presidents, etc... and they also depend on the auto sales for their wages.

now, is it really fair to ask the actual workers to take a hit on their wages and benefits while salaried people keep getting raises? I'm not saying unions are the greatest, in fact, i can bore you for hours telling you of some real corruption in auto plants by both union and management.

my point is the ridiculous prices being thrown at us isn't all the unions fault.

i should also add the dealer's costs as well...paying sales people, mechanics, owners, etc.

Please stop with the class warfare arguments.

All workers are getting screwed.

The greatest cause for our problems is inflation ... not secretaries or unions.

 

[markabby]

Please stop with the class warfare arguments.

All workers are getting screwed.

The greatest cause for our problems is inflation ... not secretaries or unions.

its not class warfare. I'm just pointing out that the unions are not all to blame for the high prices people are ******** about.

as for inflation....they can drop it to ZERO percent and i doubt we will see prices of anything drop accordingly.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

its not class warfare. I'm just pointing out that the unions are not all to blame for the high prices people are ******** about.

as for inflation....they can drop it to ZERO percent and i doubt we will see prices of anything drop accordingly.

Not true ... you went on a rant about non union workers.

You are being manipulated by the powerful who want you to point fingers at other workers instead of the real cause of why workers are getting scewed.

"as for inflation....they can drop it to ZERO percent and i doubt we will see prices of anything drop accordingly."

And you don't understand inflation! If a loaf of bread goes from $1 to $3 and then inflation goes to 0% OF COURSE the price wouldn't go down from $3. Inflation would have to go negative for the price to go down!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Docwagon1776]

its not class warfare. I'm just pointing out that the unions are not all to blame for the high prices people are ******** about.

as for inflation....they can drop it to ZERO percent and i doubt we will see prices of anything drop accordingly.

They don't care about facts. Historic trends show zero tracking of middle class or lower class wages and inflation. Many people here are old enough to *personally remember* when GM was the largest employer in the nation before Wal-mart took that position, and how much a new vehicle cost vs the hourly wage of the middle class worker. Before Reaganomics and "trickle down", which was the official term for ******* on the working class and telling them it's raining. So many people here want to believe it's rain so desperately that no facts will dissuade them.

Trucks cost a lot because people will pay the price. It's supply/demand curve. The manufacturers want to maximize profit, doesn't matter if it's a car or a watch or a hamburger, and if the public will pay $x for every one they can make they will charge $x regardless of what it costs to make it. What percentage of that money goes to wages, stockholders, or is burned in a big pile behind the factory as nude Wicca dance around it is irrelevant.

People forget that. They won't pay more for the same product just because it cost more (or less) to make. They pay more for the value it brings to *them* personally regardless. If businesses could just operate on some cost+ scheme, nobody would ever go out of business.