Unlock the Power of the Wagon?

[Trailmaker]

That explains it.

I have diligently avoided getting close to one of those for exactly this reason.

How prefect my little world would be if I had the PW and Hellcat both sitting in my driveway! Here is what they gave me.

 

[RSL0311USMC]

A 50s PW is on my radar. My truck is in the shop and my loaner is a Challenger so all these thought sparked the idea of this thread

Yeah if you find one in good shape they go for a ton. I saw a really nice restored one by me a few months ago for high 20k which I thought was a good price not a mark on it.

 

[Ram Wagon]

How prefect my little world would be if I had the PW and Hellcat both sitting in my driveway! Here is what they gave me.

View attachment 193592

Let me tell you, it is A LOT of fun to have both options.

 

[RSL0311USMC]

How prefect my little world would be if I had the PW and Hellcat both sitting in my driveway! Here is what they gave me.

View attachment 193592

I can vouch for the hellcat it's insane. To be honest I wish I kept it. I love my truck but that car was just something to behold lol. Nothing like spinning at 60 mph.

 

[Trailmaker]

Yeah if you find one in good shape they go for a ton. I saw a really nice restored one by me a few months ago for high 20k which I thought was a good price not a mark on it.

maybe I can get @56PW17 to upload pics of his. He has a restored 56 that looks fantastic

 

[62Blazer]

Back to the original question...

I'm just not convinced you are going to gain much power by defeating the actual physical emissions components. The first one that pops up with the catalytic converter. 40-50 years ago when they first started using catalytic converters they were very restrictive and caused a lot of power loss, but since then they have figured these out pretty well and they have very little restriction. The other item I can think of is the EGR. What else were you thinking? Sure, if you got rid of the cat and EGR and adjusted the PCM there would be a little power but can't imagine it would be any huge boost. I would think simply putting a good tune on it would net more power gains by itself than what defeating those systems would do?

 

[Trailmaker]

Back to the original question...

I'm just not convinced you are going to gain much power by defeating the actual physical emissions components. The first one that pops up with the catalytic converter. 40-50 years ago when they first started using catalytic converters they were very restrictive and caused a lot of power loss, but since then they have figured these out pretty well and they have very little restriction. The other item I can think of is the EGR. What else were you thinking? Sure, if you got rid of the cat and EGR and adjusted the PCM there would be a little power but can't imagine it would be any huge boost. I would think simply putting a good tune on it would net more power gains by itself than what defeating those systems would do?

it could be a bust. that is why I am exercising my thoughts out here. But the cat and the EGR would be the first thing. Then map out the other o2 sensors. The injectors I believe can handle the need at wide open throttle. Maybe tune for 100 octane like the Demon? or 93 like the SRT. I am hoping someone did this and had it dyno so we can see value per HP generated.

 

[Flea]

A 50s PW is on my radar. My truck is in the shop and my loaner is a Challenger so all these thought sparked the idea of this thread

Photos of my PW next G90, Viper, Challenger ... Challenger is my Dads 6.4/392. Ridiculously fast with crazy torque.
THat car sparks all those thoughts. Was driving it earlier ... had me looking at long headers on plane ride home ...

 

[Trailmaker]

Photos of my PW next G90, Viper, Challenger ... Challenger is my Dads 6.4/392. Ridiculously fast with crazy torque.
THat car sparks all those thoughts. Was driving it earlier ... had me looking at long headers on plane ride home ...
View attachment 193700View attachment 193701View attachment 193702

Headers could make my mod list as well. Your dads car squeezes like another 50 ponies out of the same displacement we have on our engines.

 

[Flea]

Headers could make my mod list as well. Your dads car squeezes like another 50 ponies out of the same displacement we have on our engines.

I will have to find his dyno sheet ... it is close to 680 at the wheels with an estimated 15% back at the crank.
To tune the car and bypass the cat sensors, a new ecu had to be bought and tuned.
Long headers are going to be minimal without a delete and a tune, but AR claims average of 25 HP with headers only.
I am not ready to tear into mine to the extent he did on the challenger, but honestly this truck is not a racer ... on the other hand, who wouldn't want more hp and torque?

I am happy with my current exhaust and will most likely put a cai on with a wider TB when they have been on the market for 19s a bit longer ...

headers/tuner/cat deletes ... requires more thought and dollars

side note ...
I maintain residency in TX, so I am exempt from vehicle inspections until I Drive back into TX. I have up to 5 days to get it inspected.
I have not had a single car/truck/motorcycle inspected in 5 years.

 

[RSL0311USMC]

maybe I can get @56PW17 to upload pics of his. He has a restored 56 that looks fantastic

Oh yeah I would love to see it. I have been looking at them. You never see to many which is another reason I would love to have one.

 

[Hemi_Don]

I remember watching the first 1966 Chevy's roll off the truck at the dealership and we opened the hood on one and saw that damned air pump!! We weren't concerned about a power loss but how all the stamped steel pieces would cut our hands when working on them.
One customer took his new '67 or '68 Corvette to Lions Raceway, with and without his smog equipment and reported back that it ran almost exactly the same so he returned it to stock.
I plan to install headers on my Ram 1500 (I have a bigger dual cat back exh) but will leave the cat. converter and stuff on it but may install a hot rod computer (easy to switch back), better ignition parts, stuff like that.
Creating a legal headache for selling later could be a bummer. (I live in a no smog part of Nevada)
Have a great day !

 

[Trailmaker]

I remember watching the first 1966 Chevy's roll off the truck at the dealership and we opened the hood on one and saw that damned air pump!! We weren't concerned about a power loss but how all the stamped steel pieces would cut our hands when working on them.
One customer took his new '67 or '68 Corvette to Lions Raceway, with and without his smog equipment and reported back that it ran almost exactly the same so he returned it to stock.
I plan to install headers on my Ram 1500 (I have a bigger dual cat back exh) but will leave the cat. converter and stuff on it but may install a hot rod computer (easy to switch back), better ignition parts, stuff like that.
Creating a legal headache for selling later could be a bummer. (I live in a no smog part of Nevada)
Have a great day !

On the track it was popular to have a valve that would bypass the exhaust and dump out the side. And the switch... oh the magic switch that would change the computer from stock to drag racer!! Oh I haven’t played on the track since I was in my early 20s.

 

[Joeeffinger]

I totaled my 2017 Red Power Wagon so I have an unlocked Diablo Factory MOPAR PCM and Diablo programmer with the Hemi fever tunes sitting in my closet I can not use anymore. It made a huge difference install running the Hemi Fever 93 tune. Only other mods I did were a CAI and CAT back exhaust.

 

[62Blazer]

Speaking of the catalytic converters, I actually know several guys who are running high flow cats on their vehicles even though they are not required to. I'm talking about dedicated off-road only rigs and classics. The reason is much cleaner exhaust in regards to smell. Now I'm not saying that there is no potential performance gains by going this direction, just that there are a lot of other things that could/need to be changed out first.

50 extra horsepower between the truck version and performance car version really isn't that much, however I bet there are some internal engine differences going on. When you talk about vehicles requiring 93 or even 100 octane there is likely more than just the tuning that is different. You are probably looking at different compression ratios and then getting into cam profiles, head work, and everything else. Also keep in mind the power band most people want in a truck is different than what you want in a high zoot Hellcat. That means don't get fooled by only looking at the peak power numbers.

 

[Trailmaker]

Speaking of the catalytic converters, I actually know several guys who are running high flow cats on their vehicles even though they are not required to. I'm talking about dedicated off-road only rigs and classics. The reason is much cleaner exhaust in regards to smell. Now I'm not saying that there is no potential performance gains by going this direction, just that there are a lot of other things that could/need to be changed out first.

50 extra horsepower between the truck version and performance car version really isn't that much, however I bet there are some internal engine differences going on. When you talk about vehicles requiring 93 or even 100 octane there is likely more than just the tuning that is different. You are probably looking at different compression ratios and then getting into cam profiles, head work, and everything else. Also keep in mind the power band most people want in a truck is different than what you want in a high zoot Hellcat. That means don't get fooled by only looking at the peak power numbers.

yeah no doubt the srt is set up different. it does have higher compression. I thought it would be simple to pull off the things that hold the 6.4l back and retune. I am not interested in the hassle if all I get is 20 hp. but if I hear success story for 100hp gain, then I am intrigued. Just the dialoged with y'all make this tread worth it to me.

 

[Scott Sanders]

I live in a county that does not have emissions, so thought about striping the truck of those things. Maybe with all the nonsense removed and a tune, the PW is hiding some horses?? Growing up in Houston then moving to Denver I never was able to consider this before.
This is very common with the diesel owners in my area.

Help me out.
Pros:
More hp and torque
Better exhaust
No unnecessary engine light
Better MPG
?
?

Cons:
May forfeit warranty
Hard to sale truck in the future
?
?

And worse yet, you would be polluting the planet. Emission controls are there for good reasons.

 

[Trailmaker]

Though I appreciate you blessing me with one of your nine posts on this forum, you are on a HD forum specifically the power wagon column. Not the Prius forum you may be looking for. No I don’t intend on polluting the planet as a poorly ran engine would cause pollution. My idea is to fine-tune my machine and not lose any efficiency or fuel out of the tailpipe so don’t worry about me if anything I’ll be grabbing every last ounce of power and burning it up.

 

[MJockey]

By removing only the cats, you will not feel any increase in power. Is an EGR delete even a thing on gas engines? I've only heard of it being done on diesel engines. To feel any increase in power, long tube headers and a tune would be the minimum. I say you be hard pressed to get an extra 100 HP out of this engine with out doing some major work to it.

If your just looking for better acceleration, you might consider a re-gear.

 

[Marshall]

maybe I can get @56PW17 to upload pics of his. He has a restored 56 that looks fantastic

Wish I could find a picture of my old 57 custom Fargo 1/2 T, with old school hemi in it to post. could never keep clutches in it.