What's your guys thoughts on Cummins hydrogen push

[50BMG]

It takes more energy to produce then you get back out of it, unlike extracting oil, natural gas, coal, etc. Simply put, it's inefficient which means more expensive which means the market rejects it until regulators make the cheaper options unavailable or artificially more expensive via taxes or other penalties.

That may be so right now, especially when it comes to running an electrolysis type of H production method.

But again, I wish I could find the exact example (the gas station next to the brewery) that made me aware of making Hydrogen (H2) directly from Natural Gas/Methane (CH4).

Assuming we as a culture would and should be interested in maintaining the planet (this has NOTHING to do with the "Man Made Global Warming" lies the likes of Al Gore spews! Real/reasonable "stewardship" of the environment, not wealth redistribution like carbon credits enables.).

Since the U.S. can supply a nearly endless stream of inexpensive Natural Gas, thanks to all the advances in fracking (we actually export Natural Gas now). To me, it has to be economically feasible to make hydrogen from this source since every molecule of Methane can potentially yield 2 molecules of pure Hydrogen. AND, we have a pure carbon leftover/byproduct which can likely be used to make things like carbon fiber panels, vehicle chassis, etc... quite a bit less expensive. Thus making them stronger, 100% rust/rot proof and a crap-ton lighter to boot.

Hydrogen fuel cells are also a bit behind in their technological development. From what I understand, they are still all pretty much "hand assembled" right now. If we can get the efficiency of their production upgraded to a more automated process, and also make them so that they produce more electricity per pound (from what I understand, the # of plates that can be put into a cell's containment cage and how close they are together is directly related to the amount of electricity that can be produced when hydrogen is passed through the plates. Of course, the plates cannot touch each other either, so the "hand built" production process is highly irregular and far less precise than what a computer controlled/robotic assembly process would likely be, especially after a fair period of development in that direction).
But, if we don't make the H fuel readily available to some degree, who will take the time to develop new fuel-cell production technology?

Imagine an electric hybrid vehicle which gets refueled at a hydrogen station and recharged directly by a hydrogen fuel cell...
No petroleum motor to run, maintain or to add unnecessary weight to the vehicle. No "moving parts" to ever have to maintain or to wear out/replace in the fuel cell (Possibly short of a hydrogen pump? But, since hydrogen is stored under 350-700bar pressures, there might not be need for ANY pumping of the hydrogen itself!?).
You'd get all the instant torque that electric drivetrains supply. It doesn't interfere with our already weak electrical grid (especially after AI starts to really draw on that too!) And, when the batteries charge while you drive (no need to stop and plug-in for hours to recharge) you only get a little water vapor out of the tailpipe.
I understand Hydrogen fill-ups are even faster than gasoline ones too?
Win, Win, Win!
I honestly don't think we are that far away... Maybe 5-10 years if we are diligent???

 

[04fxdwgi]

50BMG, you are correct in many of the statements. I, personally, believe that if hydrogen catches on, the issue of the hand made components will cure itself due to scalability and demand. I am confident this problem exists due to lack of confidence in the near future demand and being cautions of the major capital investment in the early stages. Have personally done some R&d for scalable industrial hydrogen systems. Also worked on R&D for the Tocomak reactor design, back in the late 70's and early 80's. All were promising but didn't pan out at the time due to the current energy systems enviroment. My, how times have changed.

Having retired as a Commissioning Agent, I have done factory acceptance and field testing of 100's (maybe over 1,000) 2.5 megawatt category emergency diesels for all our clients. All 16 cyl machines of the Cat 3516 class, from Cat, Cummins and MTU. Also some 5 megawatt class slow speed monsters. The MTU's used to be the Caddy of the 3 but since the Detroit thing, don't know where they stand now and I only saw 1 for every 2 or 300 of the others. An outlier, but nice engines and EXPENSIVE. Price points are everything to some buyers. It's brand loyalty for others, which simplifies the supply chain for new equipment inventory, maintenance and repair contractors. We even worked with the manufactureres to help in rectifying design flaws. Good times indeed.

The Cats and Cummins both have strong and weak points. Saw more Cummins than Cat due to the pricing of them. Cummins was far more competitive in pricing for bulk purchases, as we had some clients in the data industry that would buy them in lots of 2 or 300 at a time. One of Cat's major downfall was they used Kato generators coupled to their machines and, how should I say it, Kato had problems with quality control really giving Cat a blackeye.

The engines, themselves, were comparable. For engines being robust, Cat eked being winner of the 2.

 

[Docwagon1776]

The vast majority of hydrogen for fuel is cracked from natural gas currently. It's done via very high temperature steam. I have posted about it before and won't detail it out again, but it is "blue " or "gray" hydrogen depending on if the co2 is captured or not.

You lose about 1/4 of the energy of the natural gas in the process.