Which speakers to use for audio signal source for rear aftermarket subwoofer amp.

[corneileous]

Well, even though I still wound up with pretty good sound from my JL Audio Stealthbox when I hooked all this up about five years ago without using a line output converter of any kind or that pack audio device thing that gives you an audio source straight from the radio before it goes into the factory Alpine amp, I’ve decided to use that Kicker Keylock device to hopefully give my amp a lot better signal being that even though I tuned my amp to work without that stuff, after learning about this device, I’d like to try it to see if it will hopefully clean all of that base rolloff and protection junk out that’s still coming from the factory amplifier but after talking to a Kicker technician, he said I may want to reconsider using the wiring that goes to the factory rear subwoofer and consider using the front door 6 x 9 subwoofers instead because he said I might get a lot cleaner of a signal for the key lock to work with from those front door speakers rather than the rear subwoofer wiring because he said there’s a great possibility that even though that’s a rear subwoofer, there could be a lot of extra protection in that wire with either high-pass or low-pass filters that just still wouldn’t make that a good source for signal to go to my amp, so I figured I would pop the question here to see if anybody’s already tested that to see whether that’s true or not or if it even matters which speaker wires I use being that I’m not using just an ordinary line output converter; I’m actually using one that after performing the specific set up procedures on it will clean up whatever junk is in the signal as long as it has the right type of signal that a subwoofer amp would need.

Thanks.

 

[corneileous]

Anybody? Hmm. Well, I decided to just keep using the wires for my original rear sub and got pretty good results with the Keylock but after talking to another Kicker technician today for a few questions I had after the install, I think I’m just gonna go ahead and take that first Kicker Rep’s advice and tap into my front door subs being that this one told me that due to the removal of my factory rear sub, there’s no longer a load being sensed on the rear sub circuit which could be affecting the signal coming from the factory amp. Won’t have that problem if I tap into the front door subs because they’re still connected and don’t have a reason to take them out since they’re not in the way of anything.

Thoughts?

 

[fireman0127]

Get a new deck with pre-outs and save yourself a bunch of time... I've tried to do what you are doing on my 95 Taurus SHO with a factory JBL system w/sub, back in the day... after at least 2 days of "lets see if this works" I just bought a new aftermarket deck and active crossover and sold the OEM amps and sub on a popular auction site... and I still have my hair..

 

[regal81455]

Get a new deck with pre-outs and save yourself a bunch of time... I've tried to do what you are doing on my 95 Taurus SHO with a factory JBL system w/sub, back in the day... after at least 2 days of "lets see if this works" I just bought a new aftermarket deck and active crossover and sold the OEM amps and sub on a popular auction site... and I still have my hair..

I was going to say the same thing weeks ago lol.

 

[corneileous]

Get a new deck with pre-outs and save yourself a bunch of time... I've tried to do what you are doing on my 95 Taurus SHO with a factory JBL system w/sub, back in the day... after at least 2 days of "lets see if this works" I just bought a new aftermarket deck and active crossover and sold the OEM amps and sub on a popular auction site... and I still have my hair..

I was going to say the same thing weeks ago lol.

Yeah but what yall don’t understand is that when you have the 8.4 Uconnect, it’s gonna require quite an expensive upgrade to go from what I have. I can’t just slap a 3 or 4 hundred-dollar aftermarket single or double din radio in my dash and expect it to carry over all of my vehicle settings as well. I’d have to get one of them Tesla-style radios or something equivalent to that and you’re talking into the thousands. I’m not interested in spending that kind of money just to get a little bit cleaner bass when there’s plenty of other cheaper options out there that would essentially do the same thing.

But back to the question at hand- aside from just going with a whole new radio, what’s y’all’s thoughts on speaker wire source for my rear sub’s amp? That Keylock did a good job but being that the factory rear sub is gone, it all sounds good on paper about using the front subs due to them still being hooked up.

 

[regal81455]

Totally understand brother. Swapped my 8.4 factory alpine system out for a Pioneer floater but I knew I'd never be happy with the sound coming out of those pieces of OEM trash and only wanted to spend and go down that road one time...

You do you and GL!
PS ^ this isn't me trying to be snarky, I'm being sincere, in case it doesn't come across that way.

 

[regal81455]

OH and BTW LOVE LOVE LOVE "They Live" such an underated movie, even today and that quote in your sig is one I've quoted on so many occasions it's not even funny anymore

 

[regal81455]

To answer your question though - I'd definitely agree and think you'd want to pull full signal then you can strip it of the frequencies you no longer want with your crossovers, active or passive.

I don't know the specifics of all the various factory systems out there but I thought the rear doors ( at least in my case ) were the only full signal being sent. The others are crossed over, yeah? I mean aren't the front doors and dash essentially components in a roundabout way?

 

[corneileous]

Totally understand brother. Swapped my 8.4 factory alpine system out for a Pioneer floater but I knew I'd never be happy with the sound coming out of those pieces of OEM trash and only wanted to spend and go down that road one time...

You do you and GL!
PS ^ this isn't me trying to be snarky, I'm being sincere, in case it doesn't come across that way.

At first I thought it kinda came across a little snarky but no, before I got to the end of your post I wasn’t thinking that. Which I will add that if money wasn’t as quite of an object, I’d probably do the same thing just to have a little bit more extra features that would go along with the access to all the other vehicle settings that I have in my 8.4 Uconnect.

But really, I’m not gonna say I’m totally impressed with this radio but for it being a factory radio, I don’t think it’s really as bad as a lot of people seem to think it is. Of course, I was one of the victims of the screen delamination problem these trucks have but my lifetime warranty bought me a whole brand new one to replace the other one.

OH and BTW LOVE LOVE LOVE "They Live" such an underated movie, even today and that quote in your sig is one I've quoted on so many occasions it's not even funny anymore

Yep, ole Rowdy makes that movie.…lol.

To answer your question though - I'd definitely agree and think you'd want to pull full signal then you can strip it of the frequencies you no longer want with your crossovers, active or passive.

I don't know the specifics of all the various factory systems out there but I thought the rear doors ( at least in my case ) were the only full signal being sent. The others are crossed over, yeah? I mean aren't the front doors and dash essentially components in a roundabout way?

The only time you’d really want full signal is if you were looking to amplify the rest of your speakers but since I’m only wanting to pull signal for the amplifier that runs my subwoofers, I can do that either from the factory rear subwoofer location or I could do it from the front door subwoofers… which, to answer your question, I don’t know if those are component or what the deal is or if the factory amplifier just runs those three speakers on the dash separately from the 6 x 9 subwoofers in the front doors. They could be part of a component system, but I’m not sure.

I’m not sure what vehicle you have because even in my 2008 ram 1500 that I had before this truck, I’m not sure if there was any speakers in that truck or this truck that carried the full range of sound because in this truck in my old one, the rear door speakers were just mids and highs.

But all I’m wanting to know is if Kicker Audio might be on to something when they say I could get better results by using speaker terminals from my factory amp that still have a load on them from the factory speakers.

 

[regal81455]

But all I’m wanting to know is if Kicker Audio might be on to something when they say I could get better results by using speaker terminals from my factory amp that still have a load on them from the factory speakers.

I can't help you here other than to say if you're motivated give it a go. I would think you could do this in a fairly un-invasive way ( some jumper wires ) so that you could just test it and if it's not to your liking revert back to what you're already working with ( ??? ).

My 2016 had the alpine setup from the factory ( laramie ). Based on what I had read, those that were pulling signals for LOCs, were pulling from the rear for a full signal. Definitely don't need full for a subwoofer but I personally prefer an unmolested signal to start with for anything I'm wiring up. Just my preference though.

Sorry wish I had more to offer you.

 

[corneileous]

I can't help you here other than to say if you're motivated give it a go. I would think you could do this in a fairly un-invasive way ( some jumper wires ) so that you could just test it and if it's not to your liking revert back to what you're already working with ( ??? ).

I could be wrong but even if I decide to try it this way, it’s not gonna be that easy because in order to make sure I’ve got the right wires and due to the fact that some of these manufacturers like to change too many things throughout the years as they go by like in wiring identification, I’m probably gonna have to just pull the front door panels off and trace the wires to make sure I’ve got the right ones to cut and splice into but once I do that, I’m gonna have to start over with my Kicker Keylock so that it can go through it’s initial set up with the new source of speaker wires it’s receiving so, that’s gonna take time but if I do this, I’m probably just gonna leave it that way because I really don’t think it would be any worse using the front subs instead of the rear subwoofer output but if the technician from kicker is right, the signal going to my rear amp should be at least a little bit better and hopefully not worse so it would be a permanent thing.

My 2016 had the alpine setup from the factory ( laramie ). Based on what I had read, those that were pulling signals for LOCs, were pulling from the rear for a full signal.

Yours very well could be, I just don’t know. I was very late coming to the game with a fourth gen pick up because even though they came out in 2009, I didn’t get one until 2018.

I just know that on my 2008 3rd GEN that had the Infinity Audio System, there wasn’t a factory speaker in that truck that was putting out the full complete signal and even though I haven’t verified it yet in my 2018, I think it’s pretty much the same because if you turn the rear sub amp’s volume all the way down, the only bass that you feel is from the front door 6X9’s. The rear 6X9’s don’t bump at all and the speakers I replaced the factory ones with are a 3-way Infinity Reference.

I realize it now, but the day I replaced all my speakers, I could’ve just gotten away with probably a little bit cheaper 6 1/2 speaker to go in my rear doors with a 6x9 to round 6-1/4, 6-1/2 adapter but I just went with what Crutchfield recommended to me.

Definitely don't need full for a subwoofer but I personally prefer an unmolested signal to start with for anything I'm wiring up. Just my preference though.

I hear ya and I completely understand. I mean hell, even with the technology my kicker keylock has, you’re probably getting a little bit better signal to your subwoofer’s amp by pulling it straight from the radio. I just didn’t wanna spend more money than I had to just to run a couple of subs…lol.

Sorry wish I had more to offer you.

It’s cool, I figure somebody on here has to have a pretty good idea about this stuff, but I’m almost to the point of just trying it anyway and kind of in relation to what I said at the beginning of my post, as long as it sounds somewhat the same or maybe a little better, that’s all I’m after.

I will say this, though… Back when I had my third GEN, I had bought one of those loaded MTX Thunderform enclosures that already had two 10 inch subwoofers installed along with its own amp that you just hooked up the box and once I finally got around to replacing the factory radio with an aftermarket one, I really didn’t notice much of a change in bass quality by using the rear pre-outs on the new radio as opposed to pulling the amp’s signal from the front door of subwoofer 6 x 9’s in that truck when the factory radio was being used. I actually thought the sound quality would’ve increased, but it was roughly the same.

But then again, I didn’t have anything else to compare it to because as per the directions of the MTX box, they said to pull the signal from the rear door speakers, which I did, but it never really did sound exactly right and it was because I found out later on that the rear door speakers in that truck were pretty much the same as the rear speakers in my current truck to where all they carry is just the mids and the highs so once I tapped into the front door subs, it got way better.

At this point, I just don’t know if it’s going to really increase like that going from the rear subwoofer wires to the front door subwoofer wires.

 

[regal81455]

Sounds like you've got some decisions to make lol

As to your MTX experience, can't say for sure because I don't know all the deets but JIC you're not aware not all RCA outs are the same. The voltage they operate at can and does have a direct impact on the output. I've seen them as low as 1v and as high as 8v. It seems the norm is 4v. If the head unit you were using only had say 2v outs it's completely plausible you heard no audible gains from the switch. When buying a HU I always look for a min. of 4v. Just some food for thought.

 

[corneileous]

Sounds like you've got some decisions to make lol

Yep…lol.

As to your MTX experience, can't say for sure because I don't know all the deets but JIC you're not aware not all RCA outs are the same. The voltage they operate at can and does have a direct impact on the output. I've seen them as low as 1v and as high as 8v. It seems the norm is 4v. If the head unit you were using only had say 2v outs it's completely plausible you heard no audible gains from the switch. When buying a HU I always look for a min. of 4v. Just some food for thought.

In all my years of playing around with this stuff, I’ve never actually heard that before. But I guess I’m glad that when I bought all this stuff I had an account with Crutchfield because I was able to go back and log in to see exactly what I had bought for a head unit and it was the pioneer DEH-X6700BS and according to the page on Crutchfield, it says that it uses 2V outputs for the pre-outs. But what are you saying, the higher the voltage on the output will reflect the extra gain you might have?

But yeah, I didn’t really expect much of a gain other than a few more custom settings capability with the aftermarket head unit because who knows, they’re probably wasn’t near as much of all this bass rolloff and protection junk as there is in the Alpine of my current truck.

 

[yogibear18]

I put an alpine 8” powered sub in mine and went through the rear speakers and still have roll off and I have my gain turned way down so at least I can turn it up somewhat louder to get decent sound from the powered sub

 

[regal81455]

In all my years of playing around with this stuff, I’ve never actually heard that before. But I guess I’m glad that when I bought all this stuff I had an account with Crutchfield because I was able to go back and log in to see exactly what I had bought for a head unit and it was the pioneer DEH-X6700BS and according to the page on Crutchfield, it says that it uses 2V outputs for the pre-outs. But what are you saying, the higher the voltage on the output will reflect the extra gain you might have?

So obviously we could talk about this for probably hours and there are going to be a lot of opinions and certainly exceptions and variations to his rule BUT in general...

A higher voltage does alot for you. 1. It keeps the noise floor to a minimum. 2. It has a huge impact on dynamic range. A deck with a 2V output can accurately track the original recording between 0V and 2V. A deck with an 8V output can accurately track the original recording between 0V and 8V (less compression of dynamic range, less distortion at higher amplitudes) A higher input voltage will provide a better SQ advantage over turning an amps gains up to achieve the same output volts.

I can only speak from the experiences I've personally been a part of and without a doubt every person I've encountered with line signals always wonders why the bass just doesn't sound like they had thought it would. Usually it's some combination of not enough volume and / or a "muddiness" to the audible portions. My stance has been to always buy HUs with ATLEAST 4v RCA outs. It has served me well when putting together the systems I have over the years.

 

[corneileous]

I put an alpine 8” powered sub in mine and went through the rear speakers and still have roll off and I have my gain turned way down so at least I can turn it up somewhat louder to get decent sound from the powered sub

Sorry I’m just now seeing this but you used the rear door speakers? I don’t know what stock system ya got but if those rear door speakers are what you used, that could be a big part of your problem. They most likely are only outputting the mid and high range audio.

 

[corneileous]

Well guys, I still haven’t yet tried using my front door woofers for my sub amp’s signal source but after playing around tonight with the fader and balance control on the radio when I was analyzing whether or not my driver side aftermarket 3.5” Infiniti Reference dash speaker was any louder after I got rid of the positive wire inline microfarad capacitor bass blocker that used to go to that speaker, I noticed that as I changed the sound from one side to the other and straight to the back of the cab, my driver side door woofer would get quieter so if the fader and balance settings affect that, I don’t think I want my subs in the back to do that.

 

[corneileous]

Well guys, I was thinking this weekend I might try tackling that project of changing my JL Audio Stealthbox amp’s input signal wires from the original rear under-seat subwoofer wires to the wires that go to my front door woofers but the other night when I was pulling my front dash speakers out and removing the b blockers from the positive wires to maybe get those sound better which, they did, but when I was moving the balance knob from left to right to compare sound, I noticed that my front door woofers are actually affected by the balance knob and the fader knob so, what do you guys think, still use those as my input source being that nobody really plays around that much with those settings?

I’m kind of angry that the right to left and the front to back balance actually affects the speakers because in my old third GEN, those settings didn’t affect them but then again, my old third GEN didn’t have a subwoofer underneath the rear seat from the factory…

I don’t know… Like I said at the first of the discussion, installing that key lock really did help make this thing sound way better so that’s why I’m just really starting to wonder if it’s really going to make it sound even better than that by moving the input source from where it is now to another set of speakers that have their volume affected by the front to rear balance of the audio.