Who has owned a Pentastar and a Hemi Ram 1500?

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KWG88ss

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Thanks, will do. I typically buy used, 1-2yrs old. With the absolutely INSANE pricing on trucks these days, I'm planning on keeping my 2019 for a while. I paid about $4-5K less in July than the prices I see today.

Truck pricing is a joke.

I used to work for GM years back and the actual cost to build is pennies on the dollar. They had a huge study done in their enterprise risk department looking if they were pricing trucks too aggressively but banks kept giving out subprime loans, and people kept paying the increased prices... [emoji2361]


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ramffml

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That’s entirely subjective. If you lease it’s not “thousands of dollars.” It’s dependent on many factors. If you drive the truck less than 10k miles per year, it matters even less. It’s a range for the driver, not an absolute for the driver.

I never said TCO doesn’t matter, it’s specifically why I bought a v6. I never tow, so, why spend on what I won’t use?

I basically said, if someone is greatly concerned with MPG, a v8 isn’t probably the first choice I would make. But, as he said, he can’t find crew/penta combos where he lives.


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What does leasing have to do with gas you put in? I'm not talking about TCO, I'm talking about: if you have a truck for 5+ years, then a 25% increase in gas is huge.

Secondly: "if someone is greatly concerned with MPG, a v8 isn’t probably the first choice I would make", that's a silly thing to say. You're looking at this backwards. Many guys use a truck for truck things, I use mine to tow. I need the v8. I'm greatly concerned with MPG, but there is no other choice.

According to your logic I should buy the v6 so that I don't complain about MPG, but then I just complain that I have a truck that can't pull my trailer.
 
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KWG88ss

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What does leasing have to do with gas you put in? I'm not talking about TCO, I'm talking about: if you have a truck for 5+ years, then a 25% increase in gas is huge.

Secondly: "if someone is greatly concerned with MPG, a v8 isn’t probably the first choice I would make", that's a silly thing to say. You're looking at this backwards. Many guys use a truck for truck things, I use mine to tow. I need the v8. I'm greatly concerned with MPG, but there is no other choice.

According to your logic I should buy the v6 so that I don't complain about MPG, but then I just complain that I have a truck that can't pull my trailer.

If some of the HEMI owners are getting the mpgs they state, there is 0 difference period.

Tco = Total cost of ownership. Using pure national averages off Edmunds for Big Horn - crews..

After 5 years hemi owners can expect to spend $10.5k on gas compared to $9.5k for the 3.6.

That’s $1k compared to $50k+ on the total cost of ownership. It’s less than 2% of the total cost. It’s inconsequential compared to the big picture.


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BriamH

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Tco = Total cost of ownership. Using pure national averages off Edmunds for Big Horn - crews..

After 5 years hemi owners can expect to spend $10.5k on gas compared to $9.5k for the 3.6.

That’s $1k compared to $50k+ on the total cost of ownership. It’s less than 2% of the total cost. It’s inconsequential compared to the big picture.


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Not sure who came up with those numbers but if there's really a 5mpg difference, that alone means an additional 250 gallons per year driving 15K miles per year. When you consider the additional cost per gallon of the fuel requirements, the V6 would be $1,100 per year cheaper here with current NJ gas prices.
 

ramffml

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If some of the HEMI owners are getting the mpgs they state, there is 0 difference period.

Tco = Total cost of ownership. Using pure national averages off Edmunds for Big Horn - crews..

After 5 years hemi owners can expect to spend $10.5k on gas compared to $9.5k for the 3.6.

That’s $1k compared to $50k+ on the total cost of ownership. It’s less than 2% of the total cost. It’s inconsequential compared to the big picture.


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You have the most messed up logic I've seen. Forget TCO, it's confusing you.

You said this, page 4:
If you’re pulling a trailer because you have a boat, a 5mpg diff across an average year is like $3-400 bucks.

5mpg difference. Don't change the argument now to 0 difference.

Considering the 5 mpg difference at 20 mpg, that's a 25% difference.

If you normally would spend $3000 on gas per year , 25% difference means you spend 3750 per year. Multiply by 5 to 8 years and you pay an extra 3750 to 6000 in gas.
 

KWG88ss

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You have the most messed up logic I've seen. Forget TCO, it's confusing you.

It's not, trust me.

5mpg difference. Don't change the argument now to 0 difference.

I didn't, read this entire thread. He's basically getting the same exact MPG in his V8 as he did in his V6. It's not a 5mpg difference based on what he reported.

Considering the 5 mpg difference at 20 mpg, that's a 25% difference.

But, it's not? If you're comparing 20 and 25 it's a 22% difference, if you're comparing 15mpg and 20mpg, it's a 28% difference.

|V1−V2|[(V1+V2)2]×100= output

If you normally would spend $3000 on gas per year , 25% difference means you spend 3750 per year. Multiply by 5 to 8 years and you pay an extra 3750 to 6000 in gas.

Lol what? Your math is completely fuzzy. The average gallon of us gasoline right now is $2.18. Do you have any idea how many miles you would need to drive to spend $3,000 a year? At 20mpg you would need to eclipse 25,000 miles ANNUALLY to hit $3,000 in gas at 20mpg. If gas is $2.85 where you live, you still need to drive 21k miles. You're using extreme examples to justify. And again, if you're this concerned with gas and need to tow, and don't care about TCO of a vehicle, buy an electric truck. Nikola makes a really sick one.

The average person in the US pre-covid drove about 15k miles per year. Even if you want to plugin an absurd number like $3.00 per gallon, The monthly savings between a car that averages 20mpg, vs 25mpg is $38 bucks a month. That's it. $38.... It's negligible in the grand scheme of what you spend on a truck.
 

ramffml

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It's not, trust me.



I didn't, read this entire thread. He's basically getting the same exact MPG in his V8 as he did in his V6. It's not a 5mpg difference based on what he reported.



But, it's not? If you're comparing 20 and 25 it's a 22% difference, if you're comparing 15mpg and 20mpg, it's a 28% difference.

|V1−V2|[(V1+V2)2]×100= output



Lol what? Your math is completely fuzzy. The average gallon of us gasoline right now is $2.18. Do you have any idea how many miles you would need to drive to spend $3,000 a year? At 20mpg you would need to eclipse 25,000 miles ANNUALLY to hit $3,000 in gas at 20mpg. If gas is $2.85 where you live, you still need to drive 21k miles. You're using extreme examples to justify. And again, if you're this concerned with gas and need to tow, and don't care about TCO of a vehicle, buy an electric truck. Nikola makes a really sick one.

The average person in the US pre-covid drove about 15k miles per year. Even if you want to plugin an absurd number like $3.00 per gallon, The monthly savings between a car that averages 20mpg, vs 25mpg is $38 bucks a month. That's it. $38.... It's negligible in the grand scheme of what you spend on a truck.

Dude, read your original post, I even helpfully quoted it back to you. You said 5 mpg difference. That's what I am responding to in all this.

And why are you cherry picking two mpg numbers to try and catch somebody on a technicality? Are you not able to do math and find the exact numbers where 25% works? You even found a range where it would fit neatly inside, use your soggy noggin.

I drive 25,000 km (15.5K miles) a year. Average MPG (L/100 km in my case here in Canada) is 12 L/100 km. (about 20 mpg)
25000 * .12 l/km = 3000 liters of gas
Average gas price here is about 1.10/liter, therefore it costs me $3300/year to drive my truck, on cheap gas (prices go a lot higher at times), where I'm doing extremely well on fuel consumption. Most hemi owners do not get 20 mpg, but sit closer to 15 or 16.

You do you, I'm not going to waste anymore time on this.
 

KWG88ss

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Dude, read your original post, I even helpfully quoted it back to you. You said 5 mpg difference. That's what I am responding to in all this.

And why are you cherry picking two mpg numbers to try and catch somebody on a technicality? Are you not able to do math and find the exact numbers where 25% works? You even found a range where it would fit neatly inside, use your soggy noggin.

I drive 25,000 km (15.5K miles) a year. Average MPG (L/100 km in my case here in Canada) is 12 L/100 km. (about 20 mpg)
25000 * .12 l/km = 3000 liters of gas
Average gas price here is about 1.10/liter, therefore it costs me $3300/year to drive my truck, on cheap gas (prices go a lot higher at times), where I'm doing extremely well on fuel consumption. Most hemi owners do not get 20 mpg, but sit closer to 15 or 16.

You do you, I'm not going to waste anymore time on this.

5mpg was an arbitrary number I used why are you so stuck on it?

People with a V6 still pay for gas. It's not like it costs you $3,300 a year to drive your truck and a V6 costs $0.00. The difference is NEGLIGIBLE which is what I've said the entire time and which I've shown, several times mathematically while also pointing out that your math is wrong, every single time.

Using your above numbers, if you claim that you spend $3300 a year on gas, someone getting 5mpg more on average saves $57 a month or spends
$2,720 per year. Stop acting like it's a $5000 a year difference, it isn't.


If $57 per month is a life-altering expense, then something else is amiss.
 

ramffml

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5mpg was an arbitrary number I used why are you so stuck on it?

People with a V6 still pay for gas. It's not like it costs you $3,300 a year to drive your truck and a V6 costs $0.00. The difference is NEGLIGIBLE which is what I've said the entire time and which I've shown, several times mathematically while also pointing out that your math is wrong, every single time.

Using your above numbers, if you claim that you spend $3300 a year on gas, someone getting 5mpg more on average saves $57 a month or spends
$2,720 per year. Stop acting like it's a $5000 a year difference, it isn't.


If $57 per month is a life-altering expense, then something else is amiss.


Geez you're thick. I'm "stuck" on 5 mpg because that's the value you used. It's about a 25% difference, and it is NOT negligible.

I spend about $3300 on gas. If I could save 5 mpg, or 25%, that means I could knock off $825 a year. Multiply by 5 to 8 years (average time a truck is kept around), and that means I save anywhere from $4125 to $6600.

Your comment about $57 a month just shows more stupidity. You're using the wrong scale you half wit, it's the cost of gas over the lifetime of the truck (or length of time you keep the truck). Any number divided over a sufficiently large denominator can change your perception, why don't you figure out the cost per hour to really show me how little it is? That'll show me.

In what bizarre world do you live where $6000 isn't a big difference? People buy (or don't buy) diesels instead of gas for that kind of money.

Keep in mind the reason I bought a hemi is to tow. So in my usage, the gas bill is going to go up even further once COVID is dead.

Bringing all this back to your original (completely nuts) comment: Yes, Hemi owners can absolutely be rightfully concerned about a 5mpg difference in gas, and just because you think $6000 is chump change, the rest of the world doesn't.
 
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rule18

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KWG88ss

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Geez you're thick. I'm "stuck" on 5 mpg because that's the value you used. It's about a 25% difference, and it is NOT negligible.

I spend about $3300 on gas. If I could save 5 mpg, or 25%, that means I could knock off $825 a year. Multiply by 5 to 8 years (average time a truck is kept around), and that means I save anywhere from $4125 to $6600.

In what bizarre world to you live where $6000 isn't a big difference? People buy (or don't buy) diesels for that kind of money.

Keep in mind the reason I bought a hemi is to tow. So in my usage, the gas bill is going to go up even further once COVID is dead.

Bringing all this back to your original (completely nuts) comment: Yes, Hemi owners can absolutely be concerned about a 5mpg difference in gas, and just because you think $6000 is chump change, the rest of the world doesn't.

You keep talking about unrealistic averages without unpacking the other pieces of the financial puzzle. So to me, taking into account the average time someone keeps a vehicle to state a point about how much money you would spend on gas is irrelevant unless you take into consideration average loan terms, prices, etc. Btw, in the US the average truck loan is 72 months and growing. And unless you're putting 20% down, doing the smallest loan possible, etc, complaining about the gas cost makes logically no sense. Again, as I said before, since the money component of $62 a month is so important to you, why do you keep ignoring the other details like TCO?

And yes, I stand by my original argument. If you buy a hemi, a V8 of any variety, or really any car that just simply doesn't do well on gas, and then claim to be really super concerned about gas you clearly made a bad purchase.

Here's an idea: Buy the V6 when they have $14-18k in rebates and dump a supercharger in it and now you get better mpg and can tow whatever it is you need to tow and save 8k-14k off the cost of the vehicle? Now you're saving $6,000k over the lifetime of the vehicle + whatever you saved on the purchase price. Why didn't you get the V6 with the 3.55 gears? Now you're in almost hemi range if memory serves and better mpg.

You can't will your hemi suddenly have this drastic increase in mpg. Being concerned about it won't change what you get or spend, so yes, if you're this concerned(which you clearly are), don't buy the truck. Like, I don't know what else to say. You had all the information prior to buying the vehicle, you still bought it, and you're on here losing your **** over an arbitrary random 5mpg I pulled out of the air to simply make a point that it's not that much cash.

Because honestly, $62 a month is less than I made mowing lawns at 15 years old in 1995.

P.S. there are a few V6 owners on the other forum that regularly tow Willwood26BBS or something trailers. I don't own a trailer, don't want a trailer, but when I did ask what I COULD tow if I so desired, it was pretty much a universal response that anything that I could afford(keyword of this response), would able to be towed.
 

ramffml

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You keep talking about unrealistic averages without unpacking the other pieces of the financial puzzle. So to me, taking into account the average time someone keeps a vehicle to state a point about how much money you would spend on gas is irrelevant unless you take into consideration average loan terms, prices, etc.

I stopped reading at this point. $6000 extra (or savings) on gas is NEVER irrelevant, regardless of whether you paid $35,000 for the truck or $60,000. It's $6000 that I'd like to save. And it concerns me how much money I spend on gas. The $6000 I could save over the time I own the truck, is no different than the discussion a prospective buyer might have when considering to buy an EcoDiesel over the Hemi. The EcoDiesel doesn't become more or less viable or interesting whether one spends $35,000 or $60,000. I'm not sure why this is so complicated for you to follow, perhaps you're just to stubborn to admit you're wrong.
 

KWG88ss

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Again, if you're that concerned about your gas spend. You need to rethink your purchase.

Is this hard to understand?

If you made a purchase you can't afford, live with it, make more money, or buy smarter next time.

This would be like me going out, buying a Toyota Camry, and then being pissed off about the fact that it's slower than a Mustang.
 

ramffml

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Again, if you're that concerned about your gas spend. You need to rethink your purchase.

Is this hard to understand?

If you made a purchase you can't afford, live with it, make more money, or buy smarter next time.

You're jumping all over the place making stupid assumptions. You think only poor people think twice about an extra $6000 for running/owning a car/truck?

You need to stop thinking you know what should be or shouldn't be a concern or a priority in somebody else's life. The hemi serves a purpose, and it is the right tool for the job (mine anyway). You can bet your a$$ I crunched the numbers first, and gas was a big factor in all that. As it should be.

Somebody who just buys a truck without realizing or being concerned what it will cost to run it has no brains... oh jeez, I guess I finally understand where you're coming from now.
 

KWG88ss

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You're jumping all over the place making stupid assumptions. You think only poor people think twice about an extra $6000 for running/owning a car/truck?

You need to stop thinking you know what should be or shouldn't be a concern or a priority in somebody else's life. The hemi serves a purpose, and it is the right tool for the job (mine anyway). You can bet your a$$ I crunched the numbers first, and gas was a big factor in all that. As it should be.

Somebody who just buys a truck without realizing what it will cost to run it has no brains... oh jeez, I guess I finally understand where you're coming from now.

For someone that can’t do(as shown here several times) 5th grade math I don’t know if I would be talking about others intelligence [emoji23]

If your budget is tight to the tune of $68, start mowing some lawns.


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ramffml

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For someone that can’t do(as shown here several times) 5th grade math I don’t know if I would be talking about others intelligence [emoji23]

If your budget is tight to the tune of $68, start mowing some lawns.


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Again there is that very stupid assumption that somebody can't afford it.

You're pretty familiar with cutting lawns on the side eh? Not surprised.
 

KWG88ss

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Again there is that very stupid assumption that somebody can't afford it.

You're pretty familiar with cutting lawns on the side eh? Not surprised.

You’re crying over $68 a month. You clearly can’t.

I mean, can you only retain information for 5 minutes? Scroll up. Read. Find lawn mowing comment. [emoji2361]

Here, I’ll make you a deal. Post your original loan terms, if it’s not a sub prime loan I’ll venmo you next months gas differential of $68. Deal?


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ramffml

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You’re crying over $68 a month. You clearly can’t.

I mean, can you only retain information for 5 minutes? Scroll up. Read. Find lawn mowing comment. [emoji2361]

Here, I’ll make you a deal. Post your original loan terms, if it’s not a sub prime loan I’ll venmo you next months gas differential of $68. Deal?


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This just keeps getting funnier. OK I took you up on the lawn mower comment, turns out you didn't read my comment where I told you I stopped reading that particular post after 2 lines because you just went off the deep end.

If you want to play this game, have some balls and put your money where your mouth is. I'll show you my contract details, and when it's not a sub prime loan you paypal me $6000, it apparently doesn't mean much to you anyway.

Deal?
 

KWG88ss

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This just keeps getting funnier. OK I took you up on the lawn mower comment, turns out you didn't read my comment where I told you I stopped reading that particular post after 2 lines because you just went off the deep end.

If you want to play this game, have some balls and put your money where your mouth is. I'll show you my contract details, and when it's not a sub prime loan you paypal me $6000, it apparently doesn't mean much to you anyway.

Deal?

Lol, first google something called time value of money. When you need me to explain it, come on back.

Nobody said that $6000 isn’t a big deal UPFRONT, I said $68 a month isn’t a big deal over eight years. Literally 20x by now. You may only have the truck for 2 years, did you still spend $6000 in gas?? Did you buy $6000 in gas gift-cards?? You sound like someone who spends 20% of his income eating out and then tries to turn the-lights off while at home to “save money.”

Anywho,

You’re proposing a scenario which you know I won’t agree to deflect from my original proposal. Again, if that $68 is SUCH A BIG DEAL, then me proposing to pay that difference should be a amazing right? Why is it suddenly not important?

It’s funny, if one looks at your posts 80% of them are you being argumentative, antagonistic, etc. kind of weird as a hemi owner you spend this much time in the v6 forum [emoji848]


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KWG88ss

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I’ll respond tomorrow but I’m going to go drive my Panamera turbo to a buddies place as cautiously as possible because I’m super concerned about my mpg.


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