Why does Sirius XM sound so much better than other inputs?

[wes8398]

'15 Rebel here with the factory Alpine system. I've been considering sub and speaker upgrades for a while now (nothing serious, just want a bit more thump and clarity), but I'm a bit hung up on something I've discovered.

I mostly listen to supposedly high quality streaming music from Tidal via Bluetooth, but after signing up for a free trial of Sirius XM, I've discovered that the Sirius input sounds WAY better than my streaming or FM music does... almost like Sirius is "boosted" (a sales tactic?). Could there be any truth to this? If so, would there be any way to "boost" the bluetooth input like this?

I should add: I've done a 5" RA2 to 8.4" RA4 conversion on the head unit. Both head units did the exact same thing (Sirius sounded way better).

 

[SitKneelBend]

'15 Rebel here with the factory Alpine system. I've been considering sub and speaker upgrades for a while now (nothing serious, just want a bit more thump and clarity), but I'm a bit hung up on something I've discovered.

I mostly listen to supposedly high quality streaming music from Tidal via Bluetooth, but after signing up for a free trial of Sirius XM, I've discovered that the Sirius input sounds WAY better than my streaming or FM music does... almost like Sirius is "boosted" (a sales tactic?). Could there be any truth to this? If so, would there be any way to "boost" the bluetooth input like this?

I should add: I've done a 5" RA2 to 8.4" RA4 conversion on the head unit. Both head units did the exact same thing (Sirius sounded way better).

Are you sure yo have the factory Alpine system? I didn't think the shipped with RA2s? Likely your other audio sources have a lower bitrate than the SXM transmission which means lower quality audio.

 

[nlambert182]

To be honest, I've found that Bluetooth audio sounds better to me than SiriusXM.

 

[SitKneelBend]

To be honest, I've found that Bluetooth audio sounds better to me than SiriusXM.

It's my understanding that SXM OTA is a fairly compressed signal. Likely why your BlueTooth sounds better (with the right codec).

 

[wes8398]

Are you sure yo have the factory Alpine system? I didn't think the shipped with RA2s? Likely your other audio sources have a lower bitrate than the SXM transmission which means lower quality audio.

Yup, I'm sure it's an Alpine. Not many Rebels shipped with the RA2 either; but this one did. I'd imagine the Rebels *all* came with the Alpine speaker system, and it's just the head unit that was interchangeable.

I do agree that it may be a bitrate thing. I'm only on "free" plans for Tidal, Spotify, etc. Signing up for a free Hi-Fi trial with Tidal which is 1411 kbps / 16 bit quality. Will see how that compares.

To be honest, I've found that Bluetooth audio sounds better to me than SiriusXM.

What source are you using to stream via bluetooth? Is it a premium service (higher bitrate)?

It's my understanding that SXM OTA is a fairly compressed signal. Likely why your BlueTooth sounds better (with the right codec).

There are tons of complaints online from just the last few months that users have noticed Sirius' sound quality has taken a pretty big nosedive. My reference point is last summer, before these apparent cost-cutting measures.

 

[Docwagon1776]

You may also try plugging in via USB and bypassing the compression that comes from Bluetooth. I use Amazon music set to the highest quality and plug in my phone and it's very nice in the vehicles I routinely drive and the odd rental. Bluetooth is more hit or miss, IMO.

 

[nlambert182]

I'm only using the BT on my iPhone with Apple music. Yes SXM sounds compressed (to me) and has on all 3 of my Rams. All have had the Alpine with the 8.4 UConnect. Also had the 8.4 on my 2014 Durango and 2019 Charger RT and it sounded the same.

 

[GTyankee]

Something that i have wondered about ..

I recall reading that Sirius transmits a DIGITAL signal to the satellite, the satellite converts the signal to ANALOG & sends it down to our vehicles.
In our vehicles, there is a Analog to Digital Converter.
I never understood why they need to do that

 

[wes8398]

You may also try plugging in via USB and bypassing the compression that comes from Bluetooth. I use Amazon music set to the highest quality and plug in my phone and it's very nice in the vehicles I routinely drive and the odd rental. Bluetooth is more hit or miss, IMO.

I don't have android auto / car play on my head unit, so nothing plays by USB. Haven't tried an aux cable yet, but I doubt that would be any improvement. Bluetooth's bitrate max is 1600 Kbps, 24 bit, 96kHz... which should be plenty to sound decent.

I'm only using the BT on my iPhone with Apple music. Yes SXM sounds compressed (to me) and has on all 3 of my Rams. All have had the Alpine with the 8.4 UConnect. Also had the 8.4 on my 2014 Durango and 2019 Charger RT and it sounded the same.

If your source is paid/premium Apple Music, then the bitrate/quality will be much higher than Sirius from what I can see... so your situation would make sense. I haven't heard the newly supposedly-downgraded Sirius, but this past summer the sound quality of it was WAY better than my *free* spotify and tidal.

 

[Atcer2018]

If your source is paid/premium Apple Music, then the bitrate/quality will be much higher than Sirius from what I can see... so your situation would make sense. I haven't heard the newly supposedly-downgraded Sirius, but this past summer the sound quality of it was WAY better than my *free* spotify and tidal.

I subscribe to Sirius and find it to be much better than using my iPhone with CarPlay. By better it sounds fuller, louder and less background noise. I have the standard six speaker 8.4 radio in a 2018. Apple did something with iOS 16 and up where CarPlay sounds quite limited compared to Sirius. Personally I find Sirius to sound better now than a year ago.

 

[SitKneelBend]

Yup, I'm sure it's an Alpine. Not many Rebels shipped with the RA2 either; but this one did. I'd imagine the Rebels *all* came with the Alpine speaker system, and it's just the head unit that was interchangeable.

I do agree that it may be a bitrate thing. I'm only on "free" plans for Tidal, Spotify, etc. Signing up for a free Hi-Fi trial with Tidal which is 1411 kbps / 16 bit quality. Will see how that compares.

What source are you using to stream via bluetooth? Is it a premium service (higher bitrate)?


There are tons of complaints online from just the last few months that users have noticed Sirius' sound quality has taken a pretty big nosedive. My reference point is last summer, before these apparent cost-cutting measures.

Now I know (didn't know that configuration was offered)! An easy route to try for a little more thump is to just replace the factory alpine sub with a different sub in the housing. There was an 8" pioneer that was a popular choice for plug and play.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I don't have android auto / car play on my head unit, so nothing plays by USB. Haven't tried an aux cable yet, but I doubt that would be any improvement. Bluetooth's bitrate max is 1600 Kbps, 24 bit, 96kHz... which should be plenty to sound decent.

You're still dealing with codecs compressing and decompressing the data. Some codecs are better than others for preserving sound quality.

 

[wes8398]

I did some experimenting last night with a free trial of 1411 KPS /16 bit "hi-fi" quality music from Tidal. The sound quality was much, much better, but the volume still seemed muted. Then I got prompted to customize the 'settings' in the app. This led me to change all my streaming options to the highest quality available on the plan, as well as turning "VOLUME NORMALIZATION" on/off. Turning this option OFF was like pulling earplugs out of my ears!! After enjoying my new-sounding system for a few minutes, I closed Tidal, opened up Spotify (free), and navigated to the settings. There too, was an option for a similar setting which was enabled. Disabled that, and BOOM... Music to my ears. Yay!!

Now I know (didn't know that configuration was offered)! An easy route to try for a little more thump is to just replace the factory alpine sub with a different sub in the housing. There was an 8" pioneer that was a popular choice for plug and play.

One of those Pioneers (TS-SW2002D2) is actually listed in the classifieds here right now... thinking of giving it a try.

You're still dealing with codecs compressing and decompressing the data. Some codecs are better than others for preserving sound quality.

Very true.

 

[SitKneelBend]

I did some experimenting last night with a free trial of 1411 KPS /16 bit "hi-fi" quality music from Tidal. The sound quality was much, much better, but the volume still seemed muted. Then I got prompted to customize the 'settings' in the app. This led me to change all my streaming options to the highest quality available on the plan, as well as turning "VOLUME NORMALIZATION" on/off. Turning this option OFF was like pulling earplugs out of my ears!! After enjoying my new-sounding system for a few minutes, I closed Tidal, opened up Spotify (free), and navigated to the settings. There too, was an option for a similar setting which was enabled. Disabled that, and BOOM... Music to my ears. Yay!!


One of those Pioneers (TS-SW2002D2) is actually listed in the classifieds here right now... thinking of giving it a try.

Very true.

Thanks for the tip, just checked my Amazon music app to see if this was a thing and it had the same options! Even though I download and purchase all of my music, the app streams it for some reason. Changing those settings make it sound MUCH better! I was looking around and apparently the music quality of the SXM streaming app is much better than OTA too if that's something you want to try?

 

[BossHogg]

It's my understanding that SXM OTA is a fairly compressed signal. Likely why your BlueTooth sounds better (with the right codec).

Back when XM Radio started appearing in new vehicles I was slightly involved with the program. Back then, around 2003, XM Radio did not offer as many channels as they do today and different channels had different compression rates. The goal was to give the most popular streams the best fidelity while utilizing the bandwidth of their frequency allotment. Dial into an XM talk station, the compression is almost unbearable on some of them.

Since Sirius and XM merged I am going to assume nothing has changed on the XM side and I know nothing about Sirus's compression.

Interesting question, do our trucks pick up XM satellites or Sirius satellites, according to Space News, XM-3, XM-4, FM-5, and FM-6 are all in geosynchronous orbits.

 

[SitKneelBend]

Back when XM Radio started appearing in new vehicles I was slightly involved with the program. Back then, around 2003, XM Radio did not offer as many channels as they do today and different channels had different compression rates. The goal was to give the most popular streams the best fidelity while utilizing the bandwidth of their frequency allotment. Dial into an XM talk station, the compression is almost unbearable on some of them.

Since Sirius and XM merged I am going to assume nothing has changed on the XM side and I know nothing about Sirus's compression.

Interesting question, do our trucks pick up XM satellites or Sirius satellites, according to Space News, XM-3, XM-4, FM-5, and FM-6 are all in geosynchronous orbits.

Good question, I'm not sure. Here is what the antenna board looks like from a puck style antenna but I can't find anything based on markings.

 

[RamDiver]

I only listen SiriusXM in my truck and often find the compression used has resulted in the music sounding dead and lifeless.

The thing that stands out clearly in my mind is that certain tracks sound spectacular while other old classics are horrible.

I would suggest that Sirius is busy jamming their bandwidth as best they can to maximize delivery, without too much concern for over-compression artifacts.

Also, their source material is likely already compressed to varying degrees and occasionally, there's just way too much compression to recover enough data and make quality sounds for the user.

I don't believe it is a fair comment to say that Sirius quality is good or bad, because it is completely dynamic based on the source material compression rate, the final compression used by Sirius, and the codecs used at the end by the subscriber.

For the most part, I enjoy my Sirius service but sometimes it just totally sucks.

All that we can control on our end is the codecs and processing in our receiving equipment. I'm pleased to see the recommended tweaks about for volume normalization, thanks for that info.

.

 

[wes8398]

 

[BossHogg]

Good question, I'm not sure. Here is what the antenna board looks like from a puck style antenna but I can't find anything based on markings.

We call those patch antennas. It is hard to tell what frequency the antenna is cut for given that Sirius and XM satellites on adjacent frequency bands of 2.3200 to 2.3325 GHz, and XM satellites transmit on 2.3325–2.3450 GHz. Since the birds are in geosynchronous orbit and each service has two active birds, I would think one set covers the east while the other two cover the west. I would guess the receiver can select the satellite that is offering the best signal at the moment.

I guess it doesn't matter as long as the service is uninterrupted. I recall back in the early days of satellite radio I would lose the signal if I had heavy foilage to my south or passed a semi that blocked my exposure to the south. Back then only XM was available and they started with satellites in geosynchronous orbit which meant the farther north you live the lower in the sky the satellite was. That doesn't seem to happen anymore.

 

[Doug Ram]

'15 Rebel here with the factory Alpine system. I've been considering sub and speaker upgrades for a while now (nothing serious, just want a bit more thump and clarity), but I'm a bit hung up on something I've discovered.

I mostly listen to supposedly high quality streaming music from Tidal via Bluetooth, but after signing up for a free trial of Sirius XM, I've discovered that the Sirius input sounds WAY better than my streaming or FM music does... almost like Sirius is "boosted" (a sales tactic?).

This is exactly what is going on. It's a very old audio/Hi-Fi/ retail store trick. Boosting the volume level a small amount fools our hearing into believing that the louder signal is "better". We don't hear the increase in volume, instead we perceive louder equipment as sounding better to the human ear, even if the sound they make is not accurately reproducing the original signal. Alpine, or someone, turned up the volume on the Sirius input on your radio. If you can get hold of the service manual for the radio, you may even find that the input volume is adjustable. This is why old audiophile testers never relied solely on A-B testing of equipment.