Blackstone - used oil analysis

Probably going to shooting all over the place for a while as I learn all this. So looking at the cSt at 100 degrees for my oil shows in manufacturer spec sheet at 13.7, my report shows 11.19 which is about a 18% change. Is this the result of the shearing mentioned above?

tron67j said:

So, about 1/2 empty, will take a run or two this week and burn out what I have and fill with 89, since that is usually what I run when towing. Want to get it near what I will regularly use so my next analysis is closer to that 'normal'. I used to run 89 all the time but haven't worked it hard in a few months so was cheap. Find that the two places I generally go are top tier, so that is good.

I kind of thought PUP would be a good oil and hold, thoughts on if I should switch to another brand and/or change to a different weight. At time of next change, as I typed, will be running in 70s to 90s highs. I will probably change before trailering this summer, but only one trip and mostly at near sea level. I have like 5 quarts of PUP left over, but of course not willing to use it if it isn't going to hold up.

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Yes that cSt is from shear you are correct.

It is a balance, cold flow versus protection. Oils good in one usually fall short in the other. If you opt for a better protection viscosity the thing to watch is aluminum. If that goes up you sacrificed cold protection for general wear protection and I would likely go back. I can't say there is any issue here, because I am of the belief what you see is young engine stuff no matter what oil you use. If you chose something different, you need to consider a high performance oil versus just going thicker. Personally, if there is no hemi tick I would keep the HP oil move in the "bank" in case you ever get the tick.

So you live in a cold region it appears? With a lot of short trips if I remember correctly? So eventhough as hemimann said vii's cause varnish, with a low interval like you have, I would be inclined to stay with a 0w40. As for which 0w40, I would be inclined to look for 0w40's with possibly pao base oils that may not shear as much and built close to the 30-40 line of like 12.25 viscosity, less then that it goes to 30 weight, meaning the oil was in the thirty weights when you changed it. Most oils have vii's and all 40 weights are gonna have it, now 0w40 has more because the larger the swing winter rating to weight, as in 0w40 is 40 points swing, those oils will have more then an oil 15w40 which is only a 25 point swing.

Now, another move is heavy duty oils usually 15w40, now those tend to be a little thicker so changing in summer or spring would be the move, that way when winter hit the oil would be a little thinner to help with flow. But, with a new truck and warranty concerns, if it were me I'd use pup 0w40 or perhaps a m1 version with pao if you can find it. Usually listed in msds of those oils.

Looks like your engine is tuned for 87 not like 1500's that are tuned for 89.

6.4L ENGINEDo not use E-85 flex fuel or ethanol blends greater than15% in this engine.This engine is designed to meet all emissions regulations and provide satisfactory fuel meconomy and performance when using high quality unleaded gasoline having a posted octane number of 87 as specified by the (R+M)/2 method.

So maybe run the fuel trims or have someone that knows how to check all your injectors and see that none are spraying too much fuel. I'm not sure buy I would think alpha can do this? Ask that answer in the forum engine section if you dont know and it doesnt get answered here. You could try a bottle of redline si-1 the only one I know was proven. It was proven for cleaning chamber, but my guess is because of that fact it would also be a good choice for the injectors. High % PEA.

Thank you all, appreciate the feedback so far and anything else that might help.

Some more clarification on my use, my truck is kept in a garage so the temperature of the oil never gets below 40-45 degrees fahrenheit except for 2 days in upstate NY, otherwise travel always starts and ends in the garage with little downtime between without enough time to reach a colder ambient temperature. I am in Maryland so generally daytime in winter is in the 40s and nights in the 20s but looking at forecast we appear to be finished with that for the winter with temps going up. I never use E-15, and this oil cycle has been completely 87 octane from almost exclusively top tier-rated stations. The manual does allow for 87 and 89 with 89 recommended to obtain maximum output values. Now that I think about it, when I fill at Costco (which I didn't fill there in last oil cycle) I use 91 as they only have that and 87.

I will first try the 89 octane increase and take the longer routes as I drive in this cycle of oil and think it will be best to change the next two times with straight PUP 0w40 again to get the complete season cycle of coldest to hottest temperatures and the extremes of my driving. That way I will have three analyses to compare where I have kept oil constant and can see how engine reacts to changes in driving style, octane, and temperature. I will read up on the injectors and obtaining data from them to see what additional I can learn.

Thank you again.

tron67j said:

Probably going to shooting all over the place for a while as I learn all this. So looking at the cSt at 100 degrees for my oil shows in manufacturer spec sheet at 13.7, my report shows 11.19 which is about a 18% change. Is this the result of the shearing mentioned above?

Click to expand...

For comparison, when I ran Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 I went from 13.6 to 11.96 (about 12%), 5600 miles, fair amount of towing. I also have a 5.7 so maybe those don't directly compare all that well.

Since its garage kept and you live in Maryland, can't you run 5w-40? HPL PCMO (just as an example) has a cst of 14.8 and HT/HS of 4.2 and will probably shear down far less since its less swing in the grade and also higher quality VIIs.

ok

tron67j said:

Thank you all, appreciate the feedback so far and anything else that might help.

Some more clarification on my use, my truck is kept in a garage so the temperature of the oil never gets below 40-45 degrees fahrenheit except for 2 days in upstate NY, otherwise travel always starts and ends in the garage with little downtime between without enough time to reach a colder ambient temperature. I am in Maryland so generally daytime in winter is in the 40s and nights in the 20s but looking at forecast we appear to be finished with that for the winter with temps going up. I never use E-15, and this oil cycle has been completely 87 octane from almost exclusively top tier-rated stations. The manual does allow for 87 and 89 with 89 recommended to obtain maximum output values. Now that I think about it, when I fill at Costco (which I didn't fill there in last oil cycle) I use 91 as they only have that and 87.

I will first try the 89 octane increase and take the longer routes as I drive in this cycle of oil and think it will be best to change the next two times with straight PUP 0w40 again to get the complete season cycle of coldest to hottest temperatures and the extremes of my driving. That way I will have three analyses to compare where I have kept oil constant and can see how engine reacts to changes in driving style, octane, and temperature. I will read up on the injectors and obtaining data from them to see what additional I can learn.

Thank you again.

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going over in octane wont by itself create fuel dilution, even going lower "probably" wont, but in theory it is possible. One reason why you might want to take ramffml's choice which I do support is because you can see if there is any issue with PUP's gTl base oil causing that
low" flash point. m1 fs does have pao last check, hey @ramffml what was moly count on that m1?

tron67j said:

So, about 1/2 empty, will take a run or two this week and burn out what I have and fill with 89, since that is usually what I run when towing. Want to get it near what I will regularly use so my next analysis is closer to that 'normal'. I used to run 89 all the time but haven't worked it hard in a few months so was cheap. Find that the two places I generally go are top tier, so that is good.

I kind of thought PUP would be a good oil and hold, thoughts on if I should switch to another brand and/or change to a different weight. At time of next change, as I typed, will be running in 70s to 90s highs. I will probably change before trailering this summer, but only one trip and mostly at near sea level. I have like 5 quarts of PUP left over, but of course not willing to use it if it isn't going to hold up.

Click to expand...

PUP is a good oil. But I haven't seen any 0W-40 yet that won't shear down appreciably in 5,000 miles. It's just too wide a viscosity range.

Burla said:

ok

going over in octane wont by itself create fuel dilution, even going lower "probably" wont, but in theory it is possible. One reason why you might want to take ramffml's choice which I do support is because you can see if there is any issue with PUP's gTl base oil causing that
low" flash point. m1 fs does have pao last check, hey @ramffml what was moly count on that m1?

Click to expand...

In my case I used a bunch of LG as well so Blackstone reported 223 ppm.

Without LG, it's between 70 to 80 according to the sheet maintained on bitog:

btw - viscosity reduction with use can result from both shearing and evaporation. NOACK and VII

It's a two edged sword - the more VII ya use, the less viscous your base oil usually is - you get both bad parameters - sheardown, deposit, and evaporation and oxidation!

This is why using too wide a vis range oil is not good. The marketing maggots tout how miraculous 0W-40 is. It's not. It costs more and is harmful in the long run.

The brewmeisters @ HPL are doing weird things, tho - they've got some no VII base oil blend that's pretty spooky. I'd guess they blend a couple of PAO viscosities with some AN ester-simulation.

I'm always suspicious of blends - just like gasoline octane. They are NOT the average of the blend - they are two different molecules, each does half a lube job. I just don't like it if the objective is low engine wear for a lifetime.

ramffml said:

For comparison, when I ran Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 I went from 13.6 to 11.96 (about 12%), 5600 miles, fair amount of towing. I also have a 5.7 so maybe those don't directly compare all that well.

Since its garage kept and you live in Maryland, can't you run 5w-40? HPL PCMO (just as an example) has a cst of 14.8 and HT/HS of 4.2 and will probably shear down far less since its less swing in the grade and also higher quality VIIs.

Click to expand...

So, in looking for 5w40 I keep finding euro designation. So far I find that can mean "heavier" and/or that is high SAPS and HTHS. Ugh. Just basically, if I shift to 5w40 in either PUP or switch to Mobil1 in a euro blend, I think the worst to happen is my mpg could take a small hit (at maybe 15 mpg already, big deal), my turbo spool slows down (wait, the only turbo is my wash hose connector), or a slight long term impact to my catalytic converter. Does this match with what other think?

tron67j said:

So, in looking for 5w40 I keep finding euro designation. So far I find that can mean "heavier" and/or that is high SAPS and HTHS. Ugh. Just basically, if I shift to 5w40 in either PUP or switch to Mobil1 in a euro blend, I think the worst to happen is my mpg could take a small hit (at maybe 15 mpg already, big deal), my turbo spool slows down (wait, the only turbo is my wash hose connector), or a slight long term impact to my catalytic converter. Does this match with what other think?

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I doubt you'll see any MPG difference whatsoever. Some of my highest MPG runs I ever recorded in my truck were on M1 0w-40 but that was probably coincidental. And I believe cat converter issues only arise when you start burning oil.

I read about M1, am I correct they have additives that mitigates the shear I see in PUP. Just thinking since 0w40 is preferred, maybe stick with it. My 5 year warranty is gone, so I am interested in maximum life since I keep my trucks for over 10 years.

tron67j said:

I read about M1, am I correct they have additives that mitigates the shear I see in PUP. Just thinking since 0w40 is preferred, maybe stick with it. My 5 year warranty is gone, so I am interested in maximum life since I keep my trucks for over 10 years.

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I'm entering 10 years this year, my truck is just over 106,000 miles. I don't haul loads and I don't tow, just a daily driver. It's also a 1500 5.7L with 8-speed.

My truck has only seen bulk 5W-20 Pennzoil, mostly from the dealer, with Mopar filter. No tick, so far so good.
My last oil change featured a RP 20-820 filter and PUP 5W-20.

Reading your posts I think I get your lube strategy. I'm no engineer, no mechanic. I'm familiar with your climate. I live in York, and spent my first 48 years in Baltimore County. I think most of the year we spend between 35F and 90F, so I keep wondering why the 0W and why the 40. I keep thinking you would be better served by a solid 5W-20 or 5W-30 that protects and flows well throughout your OCI, without over reaching itself.

Just thinking out loud here.

I remember some of my vehicles, checking the oil and finding a quart low, I would go in the stop and shop and pick up 10w40, 5w30, ATF, vegetable oil, spray some WD40 in, nothing mattered. Now I set the bottles up on a line in front of the truck, light incense, chant, and pray the engine gods accept this new oil and confer good luck for the next few miles.

tron67j said:

I remember some of my vehicles, checking the oil and finding a quart low, I would go in the stop and shop and pick up 10w40, 5w30, ATF, vegetable oil, spray some WD40 in, nothing mattered. Now I set the bottles up on a line in front of the truck, light incense, chant, and pray the engine gods accept this new oil and confer good luck for the next few miles.

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"gods of the night,
gods of the day,
please let this oil
keep the hemi tick away."

Curmudgeon said:

I'm entering 10 years this year, my truck is just over 106,000 miles. I don't haul loads and I don't tow, just a daily driver. It's also a 1500 5.7L with 8-speed.

My truck has only seen bulk 5W-20 Pennzoil, mostly from the dealer, with Mopar filter. No tick, so far so good.
My last oil change featured a RP 20-820 filter and PUP 5W-20.

Reading your posts I think I get your lube strategy. I'm no engineer, no mechanic. I'm familiar with your climate. I live in York, and spent my first 48 years in Baltimore County. I think most of the year we spend between 35F and 90F, so I keep wondering why the 0W and why the 40. I keep thinking you would be better served by a solid 5W-20 or 5W-30 that protects and flows well throughout your OCI, without over reaching itself.

Just thinking out loud here.

Click to expand...

I thought about that weight, but what I have read is that towing will strain 5w20, and while I don't always tow I generally will pull either a couple hard loads of rock or a travel trailer maybe once every oil change. Interested in what others think, if occasionally towing won't suffer the engine for that type of oil.

Yes.
For many many years, like 40 years, 5W-40 was THE standard for heavy duty diesel engine oil in synthetic.
Hell, it STILL is - even Cummins is ok with it now after backing down their mineral oil rec from 15W-40 to 10W-30 for their new roller lifters.

What we're seeing on the gasoline side is EPA nutso for minute fuel economy gains at any cost. Hence the 0W crap. I
0W wasn't for cold weather, it was for irrelevant fuel economy gains.

Use the 5W-40 and be happy.

Heck, oil is oil...lol... Or so I used to think many years ago.

I had a '67 Chevy with a 283. It would burn a quart of oil a week driving less than 10 miles a day back and forth to work.

I worked at a big truck dealership. I started filling a gallon jug up with 90W gear oil, and dumping that in when it got low. After a couple of weeks the oil consumption started going down.

Car kept on running, and actually ran good.

Now, I stress over every oil change, hoping the formula of the current oil I'm using hasn't changed from the last time I bought enough for a few oil changes.

What's worse, is buying a different vehicle and stressing over what to use in it.....Oh man, what a mind bender....

It's time for my first 5k oil change with oil that I know what it is in my Pentastar now. Have the kit ready to send to Blackstone when I change oil. Will see how the 5w30 PUP and 17oz Lubegard does in it.

I may try adding a small amount of zddp to the combo next time, according to how the analysis looks.

I don't know why I stress over this stuff. I guess it's because I still have my oid pickup I've had since 1992, so I keep my vehicles a long time, and don't want them to break.

Never had to do any engine work on the old truck. Hoping the same for the Pentastar.

Well yeah, oil used to be oil when you changed every 3,000 miles, machine clearances were measured in tenths of an inch, and engines barely got to 100,000 miles.

When you add all sorts of techno-glitz hydraulic gizmos to engines, oil is oil ain't makin' it no more.

Another from my Ram 1500 w/ 5.7. I forgot to do one last oil change - so the last comparables are from roughly a year ago.