Blackstone - used oil analysis

[knightjp]

My concern now is whether I cut my losses and sell the truck and move on. Or invest $5k into it getting the top end redone, exhaust manifolds fixed, etc.

The truck is paid off so... I lean towards the cam it up and keep rolling as long as the bottom end is fine.

The 5th Gen is impressive and has grown on me, but I still feel the 4th Gen is the better looking truck. So I would lean towards rebuild the top end and keep the truck going. Unless the frame is damaged, the truck should still have a lot of life in it.

 

[ramffml]

Nothing out of the ordinary for the use of my truck. Mostly 22miles one way back and forth to work. Has been through road trips to the mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina, the traffic of Orlando, up to Jamestown, Virginia. My idle to driving hour ratio (if correct) isn't extreme.

I got the truck early 2019 with 54k miles on it. Since then it has been using Redline oil and Royal Purple oil filters until most recently I used Wix Gold because it was easier to find. This change I have the SRT filter.

Never had to add any oil between changes. Oil pressure ranges from 40s to 60s depending on weather. Most of the time its in the 50s.
Only used 89 or higher octane gas.

I currently have the lower end "Hemi tick", the broken manifold bolts, that goes away after warm up.

The top end has had a light sewing machine sound coming from the passenger's side. This never changed with redline.

My concern now is whether I cut my losses and sell the truck and move on. Or invest $5k into it getting the top end redone, exhaust manifolds fixed, etc.

The truck is paid off so... I lean towards the cam it up and keep rolling as long as the bottom end is fine.

Thanks for the update. You may want to cut open a used filter and look for sparkles.

Combining the sewing machine tick with the increasing iron I think the writing is on the wall, there are one or more lifters in there that are packing it in.

If that were my truck and you're leaning towards keeping it, I'd have a shop fix that ASAP. The danger waiting too long is that you end up with shavings in your block which can be very hard to get out, and then even after a rebuild you might just end up circulating that through your system for a while again.

And again if it were me I'd take the opportunity to do a little upgrade to the cam, get it tuned, remove MDS, put shorties or longtubes on it etc. But that's all optional of course other than maybe planing the manifolds flat.

 

[Sasquatchtdg]

If that were my truck and you're leaning towards keeping it, I'd have a shop fix that ASAP. The danger waiting too long is that you end up with shavings in your block which can be very hard to get out, and then even after a rebuild you might just end up circulating that through your system for a while again.

Funny, I bought a Morimoto magnetic drain plug this last change.

And again if it were me I'd take the opportunity to do a little upgrade to the cam, get it tuned, remove MDS, put shorties or longtubes on it etc. But that's all optional of course other than maybe planing the manifolds flat.

Yeah, I wish I had the funds on hand. Unfortunately with a toddler one on the way and the cost of living, there's not a ton of excess to go around. I wouldn't crack that far in to the engine without the intention of upgrading what is failing.

At least if I do keep it, the last major expense I splurged on was a cooler thermostat, all new hoses, and Cold Case all aluminum radiator to replace a leaking stock unit. Bought but did not install a new water pump. So it has that going if I cam and tune it.

 

[HEMIMANN]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2020-jeep-grand-cherokee-srt-6-4l-hpl-super-car-0w-40-9-795km.369745/

HPL supercar 0w40 holds viscosity well

I would like to understand more and see UOA's on this with summer towing. I know David and crew are experts and I'm old and obsolete, so I'd like to know just a little about how a blend can hold this wide of a viscosity range.

 

[Burla]

Nothing out of the ordinary for the use of my truck. Mostly 22miles one way back and forth to work. Has been through road trips to the mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina, the traffic of Orlando, up to Jamestown, Virginia. My idle to driving hour ratio (if correct) isn't extreme.

I got the truck early 2019 with 54k miles on it. Since then it has been using Redline oil and Royal Purple oil filters until most recently I used Wix Gold because it was easier to find. This change I have the SRT filter.

Never had to add any oil between changes. Oil pressure ranges from 40s to 60s depending on weather. Most of the time its in the 50s.
Only used 89 or higher octane gas.

I currently have the lower end "Hemi tick", the broken manifold bolts, that goes away after warm up.

The top end has had a light sewing machine sound coming from the passenger's side. This never changed with redline.

My concern now is whether I cut my losses and sell the truck and move on. Or invest $5k into it getting the top end redone, exhaust manifolds fixed, etc.

The truck is paid off so... I lean towards the cam it up and keep rolling as long as the bottom end is fine.

It might be something small like caked piston tops, I would boroscope that and let us know. If it is caked near rings I am fairly confident we can fix that with what we know- simple process. Since you always had that sewing machine sound and it never showed up prior, there is good reason to theorize it "could" be something else.

 

[The Farmer]

Heavy sigh...
View attachment 537935

This article does a good job at explaining how extended drain intervals can be detrimental to your engine: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/238/extended-oil-drains

 

[Burla]

23 year old article actually predict future cam problems? How did he know?

 

[HEMIMANN]

They were psychic.

Never mind the engineering.

 

[06 Dodge]

This article does a good job at explaining how extended drain intervals can be detrimental to your engine: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/238/extended-oil-drains

One thing I did not see mentioned is oil filtration, if you use poor quality oil filters and do normal OCI its almost as bad as missing an oil change JMHO

 

[JHoward]

This article does a good job at explaining how extended drain intervals can be detrimental to your engine: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/238/extended-oil-drains

Good article, but engine oils are much different and improved in just an short twenty years.

The HEMI engine started out as a good thing but ended up being somewhat of an disappointment when the "bean counters" and EPA/fuel economy minded dummies decided to make the modern HEMI a fuel efficient grocery getter.

"Hey, that thing got a HEMI"?

 

[knightjp]

I learned my lesson the hard way. Always assumed following the manufacturer's specifications was the best because they should know their product the best. I was so wrong. Now I've faced the dreaded tick 3 times and I decided to stick with established best practices like change every 5000 miles or less, use the manufacturer's filters, etc., etc., etc.
I'm changing it every 5000 kms. Unless its Redline 5w30. Then its every 8000kms (around 5000 miles).

 

[HEMIMANN]

Good article, but engine oils are much different and improved in just an short twenty years.

The HEMI engine started out as a good thing but ended up being somewhat of an disappointment when the "bean counters" and EPA/fuel economy minded dummies decided to make the modern HEMI a fuel efficient grocery getter.

"Hey, that thing got a HEMI"?

The EPA did that. All automakers were forced to choose between small engines worked too hard or big engines with cylinder cutouts. At work I read trade mags following each one's progress.

Hemi architecture was pure marketing choice. Hemi does absolutely nothing for non racers, and in fact, caused the tick lifter issue. Yes, some other non Hemi engines had lifter issues, but not at the rate and over the lifespan of production as the Hemi.
The Hemi Gen III is a design failure, as I've noted many times. We got sucked into the marketing. Instead of admit mistake and design a modern truck V8 like Ford and GM, Chrysler went bankrupt and got bought by a terrible Italian car company, then doubled down and merged with a terrible French car company.
It's barely alive today, with all the management errors.

 

[knightjp]

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't view the Gen 3 Hemi as a design failure. If we are to consider it as that, we need to consider the 5.3 GM LS engines as design failures as well.
They suffer from the same problems.
From every powernation video about the 3rd Gen Hemi, these engine builders consider it to be a great reliable engine.
I used to own an Alfa Romeo 156 with the 2.5 Busso V6 - widely recognized by petrolheads (gearheads) all over as the best sounding and greatest V6 engines of all time. It required a timing belt change every 60,000 kms and it was not a cheap procedure. For that, people used to describe it as a design failure, but those who knew, would tell a different story.
The point is, these lifter issues are not about design. Its other factors and there are 1000s of Hemis running out there that never face these issues and this engine has been in production for such a long time. That's a testiment to a great engine if you ask me.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't view the Gen 3 Hemi as a design failure. If we are to consider it as that, we need to consider the 5.3 GM LS engines as design failures as well.
They suffer from the same problems.
From every powernation video about the 3rd Gen Hemi, these engine builders consider it to be a great reliable engine.
I used to own an Alfa Romeo 156 with the 2.5 Busso V6 - widely recognized by petrolheads (gearheads) all over as the best sounding and greatest V6 engines of all time. It required a timing belt change every 60,000 kms and it was not a cheap procedure. For that, people used to describe it as a design failure, but those who knew, would tell a different story.
The point is, these lifter issues are not about design. Its other factors and there are 1000s of Hemis running out there that never face these issues and this engine has been in production for such a long time. That's a testiment to a great engine if you ask me.

They are. I owned one and went to Hemi because of it.

 

[The Farmer]

The HEMI tick can drive people to insanity, for sure.

 

[HEMIMANN]

A little history on the GM 5.3L AFM engine. @Sherman Bird chime in.

This engine is in the small block chevy line. It was reduced from 5.7L (350 cid) to save gas from the late 1990's EPA CAFE fleet regulations for half ton pickup trucks.

For the 1st time I'm aware of, it also received low tension piston rings to reduce friction loss on the upstroke, and on the deactivated AFM 4 cylinders on both strokes. Once again, to save gas.

The engine was rated at higher rpm than its predecessor to try to show near same horsepower (never mind the lower towing torque). It also received piston cooling nozzles for the 1st time I'm aware of for a consumer small block V8.

Put all these things together, just for the EPA, and you have the disaster this engine is. First, it's a w*h*i*z motor. It doesn't have enough displacement or boost pressure to make any torque. I was talked into one in 2007. It was an absolute screaming dog of a motor.

Around 70,000 miles, it started pumping oil past the AFM cylinders. Much googling and BITOG showed the low tension rings on the deactivated AFM cylinders allowed oil sludging of the oil control ring such that it pumped oil out. I started pumping out a quart in 1,000 miles after using near nothing in 6,000 miles when new.

Bloggers using dino oil started pumping ~ 20,000 miles. GM fuched around, put in cooling jet baffles, and some other dumb stuff that didn't work.

I dumped it in 2012 for Ram. Anyone want to debate how this is a fine engine? I can dredge up thousands of documents on it.

 

[Sherman Bird]

A little history on the GM 5.3L AFM engine. @Sherman Bird chime in.

This engine is in the small block chevy line. It was reduced from 5.7L (350 cid) to save gas from the late 1990's EPA CAFE fleet regulations for half ton pickup trucks.

For the 1st time I'm aware of, it also received low tension piston rings to reduce friction loss on the upstroke, and on the deactivated AFM 4 cylinders on both strokes. Once again, to save gas.

The engine was rated at higher rpm than its predecessor to try to show near same horsepower (never mind the lower towing torque). It also received piston cooling nozzles for the 1st time I'm aware of for a consumer small block V8.

Put all these things together, just for the EPA, and you have the disaster this engine is. First, it's a w*h*i*z motor. It doesn't have enough displacement or boost pressure to make any torque. I was talked into one in 2007. It was an absolute screaming dog of a motor.

Around 70,000 miles, it started pumping oil past the AFM cylinders. Much googling and BITOG showed the low tension rings on the deactivated AFM cylinders allowed oil sludging of the oil control ring such that it pumped oil out. I started pumping out a quart in 1,000 miles after using near nothing in 6,000 miles when new.

Bloggers using dino oil started pumping ~ 20,000 miles. GM fuched around, put in cooling jet baffles, and some other dumb stuff that didn't work.

I dumped it in 2012 for Ram. Anyone want to debate how this is a fine engine? I can dredge up thousands of documents on it.

The pistons are hypereutectic. This means a high level of silicon... thus thermal stability. The downside? They are brittle as all get out.

The LS engine debuted in the 1997 Corvette. I was at Chevrolet at the time and we techs gathered 'round to ooh and aah at this new-fangled engine, not to mention the new Corvette design.

The cathedral design intake ports allow for potential horsepower gains after modifications far exceeding the potential of the LT design, being naturally aspirated. This was evidenced with the LT engines in Nascar being fitted with cylinder heads ala the LS design which had siamesed exhaust cylinder heads which caused limitations in N/A horsepower gains and overall reliability under severe use (racing).

Corporate bean counters and shareholder greed causes a lot of glaring problems in the final production across all manufacturers. Politics and EPA really screwed the pooch in the 60's and 70's regarding some really great engine designs.

 

[The Farmer]

Much googling and BITOG showed the low tension rings on the deactivated AFM cylinders allowed oil sludging of the oil control ring such that it pumped oil out.

Oh, you mean that exclusive club where the male egos are so delicate, they could shatter at the mere suggestion of being wrong? It felt more like a bizarre fusion of a retirement village and a daycare for the overinflated self-esteem crowd. Honestly, I bailed quicker than a cat in a bathtub!

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yeah, it wasn't the pistons - it was the rings + AFM + nozzle jets. The engine would have been ok without any of that miniscule fuel saving nonsense. In fact, I wanted the LT (?) 6.2 from the HD trucks in the LD, but they only offered that ancient 6.0 (LS?).

 

[HEMIMANN]

Oh, you mean that exclusive club where the male egos are so delicate, they could shatter at the mere suggestion of being wrong? It felt more like a bizarre fusion of a retirement village and a daycare for the overinflated self-esteem crowd. Honestly, I bailed quicker than a cat in a bathtub!

Yes, why I left . But before I did, I found out what was going on and investigated further elsewhere. You might want to do the same.