6.4 2500- A different perspective

[KarL45]

After reading the thread am a bit confused on why we're comparing a Ram 2500 to "any half ton on the market. Not apples to apples. If towing even moderately heavy, 7000# , that's out of I/2 ton range and payload is definitely not close. That said, and now getting into the transmission portion, I still think that Ram needs to build a transmission designed for hauling and towing. An 8 speed would be ideal but even then, if the 66RFE was redesigned (re geared) that would be a huge difference. As was stated that a full throttle run up the Ike doesn't prove much, it does show the transmission gearing faults. Like, why 2 overdrive gears? when towing or hauling they are never used. Second, why the high gearing in 1st through 3rd at least. As was just stated on another thread, when towing, they are in 1st and second in the mountain ranges. My experience shows the same. As for mpg, fuel management like using the MDS and such would suffice and be able to get 5 gears at or below 1 to 1 ratio and still achieve the empty mileage. Suspect then the tow/haul mileage would come up if not continually shifting and not having to run the engine at 5k or higher. But for now, and still, comparing 1/2 to 3/4 ton trucks are not apples to apples

 

[Hootbro]

The tundra is a 3/4 ton truck

Almost but not quite. In 2007 when the current basic design came out, that was more of a truer statement as compared to then other maker 1/2 tons that Toyota did incorporate larger brakes, rear axles and frame design that mimic 3/4 ton models of the day.

Fast forward to now, that is less so as the other makers have upped their 1/2 ton game and the current Toyota Tundra is just a re-skin job with the same frame, suspension and drivetrain as before.

At best I would consider the Tundra a "1500 HD" like Chevy did for a couple of years with their 1500's.

 

[RoadDog66]

Most 1/2 tons are very capable these days, but lacking tremendously in the payload dept. I loved my Titan and it pulled like a champ, but sagged like an old lady. My TT weighs 7500 lb loaded and with wife, kids, dogs, gear & essentials (food, beer) I was almost over my 1598 lbs payload. Tried some aftermarket shocks and suspension upgrades, but still pushing the numbers. My Titan at 5600lb dry with 33" E-rated tires consistently got 13 mpg's on my normal daily drive and 8.5-10 towing. That's the reason I went 3/4 ton gasser and the Ram w/coil springs. The payload is almost twice what I had, the ride it's top notch, and it pulls great. For a 7100 lb truck (empty) the consistent 11-12.5 mpg daily drive mpg (depending on how heavy my foot is) works for me, especially when knowing how much more its capable of.

Each owner has their own list of uses & needs, so not sure why we are arguing over it. I mean why do these threads always become "my truck & engine is better than your truck & engine"? Would having a CTD be great for heavy towing over 10K lbs...of course, but not what everyone does or needs. Would getting 15+ mpgs towing be great...of course, but towing less than 10-12 times a year in the summer (typical recreational user) with a 7100+ lb truck its very unlikely & unecessary. The OP knows his use scenarios best and got what he wanted to do the job the best & safest way possible for him. Kudos bro, enjoy your truck.

 

[SouthTexan]

Each owner has their own list of uses & needs, so not sure why we are arguing over it. I mean why do these threads always become "my truck & engine is better than your truck & engine"? Would having a CTD be great for heavy towing over 10K lbs...of course, but not what everyone does or needs. Would getting 15+ mpgs towing be great...of course, but towing less than 10-12 times a year in the summer (typical recreational user) with a 7100+ lb truck its very unlikely & unecessary. The OP knows his use scenarios best and got what he wanted to do the job the best & safest way possible for him. Kudos bro, enjoy your truck.

If you are referring to my debate with the OP on arguing over uses and needs, then I don't think you quite understand what I was saying. I was not arguing his uses and needs. In fact I even stated on post #18 of this thread that he doesn't have to justify why he got his truck and just the fact of wanting one even though he doesn't need one is a good enough reason for me.

What I was debating was what the OP said in his initial post of how a 2500 6.4L would get better fuel economy than other half tons, and how a other half tons are "cars with beds" in comparison to the Tundra. I pointed out (with proof) that other half tons are actually more capable than a Tundra and they do in fact get better fuel economy. He also stated that other half tons did not have enough payload for the 5,000 lb trailer he was towing and 800 lb ATV he was hauling, and I in turn debated that that was also incorrect. I was not trying to tell him he should get a half ton for his needs/wants. In fact I even stated many times in this thread that an Ram HD would handle the weight better than any half ton. I was just trying to tell him that saying a current half ton on the market did not have enough capabilities for his needs(even in a 4x4) is a false statement regardless if it is a brand he prefers or not.


He also complained how "Most of these 6.4 threads turn into a 6.7 vs 6.4 battle" and then turned right around and started comparing the two several paragraphs later (which I didn't understand why you would complain about it then turn right around and do it), but I didn't even touch on that.

 

[SouthTexan]

Not sure of your info on the 6.2. My father in law has the F250 Lariat with 6.2 and he, for the most part drives it like the 69 year old man that he is. When they drive from OK to MT each summer while we drive from SoCal to MT and meet them my 6.4 MC actually gets about 2 mpg better than his when we meet at the destination. I will drive his truck around Tulsa when in town and he averages right at 14mpg around town on his EVIC. I will also tell you that my 6.4 would smoke his F250 from a stop and in passing speeds.

ST, are you talking about a 6.2 in an F150?

And for the OP my truck in the sig below had to be taken to a scale prior to registration and it tipped the scale at just over 7300 lbs. fuel was about half tank. My truck is the equivalent of people on "My 600lb Life" tv show.

I was talking about the half ton engines in the links I posted in my first post. I was not talking about the F150 or F250 6.2L since the F250 is not a half ton, and the 6.2L in the F150 (which was more powerful than the SD version) was discontinued a few years ago. Since the OP was talking about new trucks, then I just kept my argument on current models.

 

[SHOOT2KILL]

Regular cab 8ft bed Rams are tough to find on the lot, and even tougher to find it with 4:10s. When I bought my reg cab 3500DRW 8 foot bed it was extremely tough to find. I could only find 2 within a 100 mile radius that had the 6.4, and I got stuck with the 3:73s, which gives me a **** poor low 12,500# tow rating on a one ton dually, crazy. 4:10s should be standard on the HD gas truck or at least with the 6.4L!

What I found even dumber is they make a short box dually with a 4 door cab, just as you said its a car with a big trunk. But a short box dually is one of the silliest configurations out there.

If you want a reg cab 6.4L with 4:10s you will likely have to order it.

My 15 regular cab longbed was the oldest new truck on the dealers lot when I bought it...He said nobody wanted it...Had to drive 1 hour+ back to Illinois to get it because the local dealer was $1500.00 more for the exact same truck...($15.00 difference on MSRP between the trucks)...After owning SEVERAL Chevy crew cab duallys since 1988, I can honestly say a serious WEAK LINK with these 2500 Rams is the 3.73 gear and the SHYTY transforce tires...Snow Chief pkg should come with 4.10's... In order to use all 410 hp when plowing your have to rev the motor up over 4k rpm...By that time the SHYTY tires are spinning...It's actually COMICAL that the FCA engineers designed this truck this way

 

[SouthTexan]

Only problem is he's not just towing 5,000lbs. He is also carrying an 800lb quad in the bed and the rest of his cargo and passengers. The only half ton c.c. 4x4 that could to that without exceeding GVWR and likely RAWR is the HD payload F150, and even it would be close to RAWR.

He would not be going over either the GVWR or RAWR. In fact it wouldn't even be close on the RAWR.

The GVWR on a HD F150 crew cab 4x4 long bed is 7,850 lbs, and the curb weight is 5,142. Adding a fully loaded three hundred pounds worth of options would bring it to about 5,442 lbs leaving you with 2,308 lbs payload. Even with the 600 lbs WDH tongue weight of his trailer, an 800 lb ATV, and 800 lbs worth of passengers and gear(which would b a lot especially for a person wanting a reg cab that only fits 2 people) he would still be under is GVWR and payload rating by over 100 lbs.

The RAWR is even a greater difference. His RAWR is 4,800 lbs and according to Ford the rear curb weight (including a full tank of fuel) is 2,074 lbs.

4,800
-2,074
-600 <trailer
-800 <ATV
-400< passengers and gear split between both axles
------------
926 lbs of axle rating left

 

[MANual_puller]

My 15 regular cab longbed was the oldest new truck on the dealers lot when I bought it...He said nobody wanted it...Had to drive 1 hour+ back to Illinois to get it because the local dealer was $1500.00 more for the exact same truck...($15.00 difference on MSRP between the trucks)...After owning SEVERAL Chevy crew cab duallys since 1988, I can honestly say a serious WEAK LINK with these 2500 Rams is the 3.73 gear and the SHYTY transforce tires...Snow Chief pkg should come with 4.10's... In order to use all 410 hp when plowing your have to rev the motor up over 4k rpm...By that time the SHYTY tires are spinning...It's actually COMICAL that the FCA engineers designed this truck this way

Tires are an easy fix, just put the ones on you want when they are spent Re-gearing is also an easy fix and you don't have to calibrate anything to do it as the speed sensor is in the rear end instead of trans. You can recoup some of the money by selling a gently used gearset to someone looking for better mileage or that breaks one. Lots of people all over changing gear ratios either up or down to meet their needs. Both 2500 trucks I've owned have had 4.10 gears in them from factory. IMO that's the only way to go in a 2500 unless you get into truck pulling or mudding then a 4.56 might be the way to go(this is definitely on my wish list unless a 5.13 comes available by then for the 10.5")

 

[Jerry1984]

This is why I luckily found an 8 speed half ton with all my necessities (backup cam, 3.92, 8 speed, 4wd) that just happened to have stock air ride. I may be close to payload maxes but it's just the occasional tow (6-8) times per year. I have upgraded to e rated tires and still get good mpg in normal everyday driving. My towing situation will be slightly different this year than last. 4000 pound travel trailer, double towing an atv trailer. This year will have a side by side on the back trailer and a Honda Trx 400 and crf 80 in the bed. Yes, double bumper towing is legal in Idaho.

 

[SouthTexan]

This is why I luckily found an 8 speed half ton with all my necessities (backup cam, 3.92, 8 speed, 4wd) that just happened to have stock air ride. I may be close to payload maxes but it's just the occasional tow (6-8) times per year. I have upgraded to e rated tires and still get good mpg in normal everyday driving. My towing situation will be slightly different this year than last. 4000 pound travel trailer, double towing an atv trailer. This year will have a side by side on the back trailer and a Honda Trx 400 and crf 80 in the bed. Yes, double bumper towing is legal in Idaho.]

TFL truck just posted a video of a 2016 Ram 1500 towing up the Ike Gauntlet. Its towing the same 9,000 lbs trailer that they just tested the 2016 Power Wagon with. It did really well with a time of 7:44 and mph of 3.0 with it never dropping bellow 55 mph. I would post the video, but they only release them in their forum first and then on their site a week later.

 

[tjfdesmo]

Nice Wildcat Sport, Jerry!

 

[Jerry1984]

TFL truck just posted a video of a 2016 Ram 1500 towing up the Ike Gauntlet. It towing the same 9,000 lbs trailer that they just tested the 2016 Power Wagon with. It did really well with a time of 7:44 and mph of 3.0 with it never dropping bellow 55 mph. I would post the video, but they only release them in their forum first and then on their site a week later.

That's why I bought mine. May be pushing its limits at times but I don't tow frequently enough to justify the 2500 for the other 99% of the time. That was just me. I'm not retired and traveling the country. Just a weekend warrior mainly in the summer.

 

[Skrap]

I was talking about the half ton engines in the links I posted in my first post. I was not talking about the F150 or F250 6.2L since the F250 is not a half ton, and the 6.2L in the F150 (which was more powerful than the SD version) was discontinued a few years ago. Since the OP was talking about new trucks, then I just kept my argument on current models.

Gotcha. Since I don't keep up on the Fords, what are they putting in the Raptor if they don't use the 6.2 anymore?

 

[SouthTexan]

Gotcha. Since I don't keep up on the Fords, what are they putting in the Raptor if they don't use the 6.2 anymore?

There isn't a Raptor for the 2015 and 2016 MY. The Raptor will return in 2017 with a 450 hp second generation 3.5L Ecoboost and a 10 speed transmission.


2017 Ford Raptor

 

[SouthTexan]

That's why I bought mine. May be pushing its limits at times but I don't tow frequently enough to justify the 2500 for the other 99% of the time. That was just me. I'm not retired and traveling the country. Just a weekend warrior mainly in the summer.

A friend of mine put TUFTRUCK progressive rear coils on his 1500 and he said they dramatically reduced the squat towing the 7,000 lb RV he tows and made it handle the weight much better. Unloaded ride got a little stiffer, but he said he likes it for his driving style because there is less body roll.

 

[Jerry1984]

A friend of mine put TUFTRUCK progressive rear coils on his 1500 and he said they dramatically reduced the squat towing the 7,000 lb RV he tows and made it handle the weight much better. Unloaded ride got a little stiffer, but he said he likes it for his driving style because there is less body roll.

Stock air ride is the ****. Stays level up to 2000 pounds. Auto levels without issue. Still rides good unloaded as it lower the psi in the bags. That's why I replied to this thread. If you tow up to 1500 payload limits as the op does, opt for the stock air ride and enjoy the benefits of a half ton the other 99% you aren't towing. It's a pricey option but still an option. Until the heavy duty gas gets an updated transmission the half ton 8 speed is pretty great. I'm close to max payload but still ride nice and level thanks to the stock 4 corner air ride.

 

[SlightlyTweaked]

That's scary for a 66RFE, thought it was a beefed up trans (outside of the TC). Assume it was replaced under warranty but any idea why it broke? I haven't heard of too many problems with this trans. But maybe I just haven't heard[/QUOT

My assumption is that it was faulty from day one. It always had issues but I was just assuming it was the way the truck was until it FINALLY flagged a code and I brought it in to be checked out. It was covered under warranty.

 

[SlightlyTweaked]

The Aisin in a 3500 ? Have to look at that.

I haven't tried building it with the AISIN, just know that is MOPARs equal to the ALLISON. For some reason I thought it was available in 2500s with CTD and 3500 with 6.4 or CTD. I could be wrong, according to my wife that happens from time to time.

 

[drittal]

Not available in the 2500 at all, only available behind the 6.7 in 3500. Is a $1600 option behind 6.4 in chassis cab.

 

[69GWC]

TFL truck just posted a video of a 2016 Ram 1500 towing up the Ike Gauntlet. Its towing the same 9,000 lbs trailer that they just tested the 2016 Power Wagon with. It did really well with a time of 7:44 and mph of 3.0 with it never dropping bellow 55 mph. I would post the video, but they only release them in their forum first and then on their site a week later.

I have ask this very question if the 1500 would do as well or better, I really thought this would be the case as the hp/ torque difference is not that much but the 8sp has a far better gear ratio.
Does not suprise me .