6.4 or 6.7 for the next truck?

[Docpaulo]

Insignificant? Oh really? Where is the data to back this up? Here is mine and this was even with pre-DEF trucks that got worse fuel economy and had shorter oil change intervals than 2013+ post DEF trucks.....

Under a grand difference after 100k is insignificant in a 50k truck...

If i was saving 5 to 10k it may be a strong argument for me to live with the extra work a diesel would be for me... and the diesel rattle that comes with it...

Bottom line... it comes out close per your data... so it comes down to what a person wants...and needs

Not everybody wants a cummins when a hemi will do... and i grew up around diesels all my life... believe me i wanted to justify that diesel... price was not a factor for me... im keeping the truck till it breaks apart...
the hemi drove better for me... and powerwagon came in hemi only... if i buy a 5th wheel i may go diesel again... but that will be a decade or so from now

 

[SouthTexan]

Under a grand difference after 100k is insignificant in a 50k truck...

If I was saving 5 to 10k it may be a strong argument for me to live with the extra work a diesel would be for me... and the diesel rattle that comes with it...

Exactly, you are getting a lot more pulling power and towing capability with only a grand difference in favor of a diesel. It is only an insignificant amount yet some people here like to claim like it is a major amount the opposite way. It is like getting a V8 Challenger, but saving more money than a V6 Challenger.

Bottom line... it comes out close per your data... so it comes down to what a person wants...and needs

Not everybody wants a cummins when a hemi will do...

And I agree here, but what I don't agree with are the people that claim that owning a diesel supposedly costs thousands more than owning a gasser. Which is why I stated what I did because someone said that.

and i grew up around diesels all my life... believe me i wanted to justify that diesel... price was not a factor for me... im keeping the truck till it breaks apart...
the hemi drove better for me... and powerwagon came in hemi only... if i buy a 5th wheel i may go diesel again... but that will be a decade or so from now

I am not arguing this since it is subjective and can change from person to person. The reason why I brought up the cost thing was because someone said the gasser costs less so I posted the numbers to prove otherwise. I am not trying to say that ownong a gasser is a bad choice since everyone has different wants and needs. I am just saying a diesel costing a lot more in the long run is incorrect. Nothing more.

 

[SouthTexan]

Nice post, you've really done your homework, but you don't have to get approval from me to buy a diesel truck. I just go off real world experience, my rigs get abused, are strictly for work not to drive around town waving out the window at everyone showing them how cool my truck is. They weigh 12-14k lbs and are just a tool and spend the majority of its life off road. I don't care about their resale because when I'm done with them I've made a lot of money off of it and they are junk. Once you get past 100,000 miles what happens when the turbo goes out? Or you have EGR/exhaust sensor problems? Or any other problem a diesel may have. You have to pay for it and it's gonna be expensive. Nothing about maintenance on a diesel is cheap and even worse is being on the road and trying to find a mechanic that is competent to work on it. Your assumption is a vehicle has no problems to 100k miles which a vehicle shouldn't. But that 100-200k that's where you find out how good your truck is. I've found that 100-200k mile area usually to be an expensive one for Diesel engines.

I am not trying to get anyone approval to buy a diesel and I don't feel I need it. However, I see many people here try to justify their gas engine by saying that it costs less than a diesel in the long run which isn't true. That is the only reason why I commented on it. A person owning a 6.4L should buy one because they wanted one and should not try to justify it especially with false statements. Basically what I am trying to say is.... be happy with your truck decision and don't feel the need to compare it to anything in order to justify being happy with it. Nothing more.

Although my truck is deleted so I will not have a sensor or EGR problem and instead of getting 15.5 mpg I get 17.5 mpg and A LOT more pulling power. As for the 100-200k mark, I have had many diesels before and while many do require maintenance at this time(just like a gasser does at 100k), but once this maintenance is done then you have another 150-200k to go before you have to do it again as opposed to having to buy a whole new engine in a gasser.

That is what people don't understand about gassers and diesels. Most gas engines require new spark plugs, coils and various other things at 100k miles and they are good for another 100k miles. For diesels that mark is around 150-200k and they are good for another 150-200k. Like I said before, diesel maintenance is more expensive but less often while gas engine maintenance is less expensive but more often so pick your poison.

The last Cummins diesel I owned went to 350k before I sold and I only had to replace the water pump and turbo at 210k which cost about $1.5k. I sold the truck for for $15k and the last I heard it had almost 400k miles on it. Could you get the same with a gasser with 350k miles on it pulling the same 14k loads I do?

 

[SouthTexan]

6.4 Hemi

Aside from all the calculation and whatnot the main difference with diesel and gasser maintenance is the fuel filter change frequency. Doing the changes yourself can easily make the diesel less of a maintenance "hog." For that matter, when I had my diesel I did the oil and fuel filter myself. I guess that's my breaking point - gasser which only needs oil change and can be bought at the dealer for roughly the same cost as supplies? Sure, have the dealer do it. Oil change AND fuel filter? No way I'm paying that much so I'll do it myself.

The figures I posted earlier are based off what I do. I don't do my own oil changes and have the dealer do them, but I do my own fuel filters since it only takes about 10-15 minutes to do. The one time I did do my own oil change it was $40 for the oil at Costco and $13 for the oil filter. Hence the reason why I let the dealer do them because saving $17 was not worth my time.

 

[mtofell]

The figures I posted earlier are based off what I do. I don't do my own oil changes and have the dealer do them, but I do my own fuel filters since it only takes about 10-15 minutes to do. The one time I did do my own oil change it was $40 for the oil at Costco and $13 for the oil filter. Hence the reason why I let the dealer do them because saving $17 was not worth my time.

That makes sense - I can't remember exactly but I think the dealer with my 06 Dmax wanted some ridiculous $$ for an oil change so I just opted to do oil and fuel filter myself. It is nice making it into the dealer regularly for updates and recalls.

To some extent I actually do miss doing my own oil and fuel filter changes. I always feel like kind of a snowflake handing off my keys and sipping a cup of coffee at the dealer

 

[SouthTexan]

That makes sense - I can't remember exactly but I think the dealer with my 06 Dmax wanted some ridiculous $$ for an oil change so I just opted to do oil and fuel filter myself. It is nice making it into the dealer regularly for updates and recalls.

To some extent I actually do miss doing my own oil and fuel filter changes. I always feel like kind of a snowflake handing off my keys and sipping a cup of coffee at the dealer

I know the feeling. I don't like the dealer doing my oil changes either and I always verify everything they do, but since I drive 82 miles for work every day the oil changes come real quick. I am about to take delivery of a BMW 328D diesel (45 mpg hwy) as a work & back vehicle so I may start doing my oil changes again since they will not be so frequent.

 

[Docpaulo]

I am about to take delivery of a BMW 328D diesel (45 mpg hwy) as a work & back vehicle so I may start doing my oil changes again since they will not be so frequent.

If its new, oil changes are free while under warranty

 

[Ratket]

I just want a diesel cause the thing will be lucky to get 6k miles a year, sit in the garage, and get me back most of my money when I decide to trade it in. I’m
Not kidding anyone and saying “ it will be my last truck” ... way to many electronics, expensive parts that I can’t fix, I know it won’t last for ever. But all of my wants hinge on one little lady giving me the green light and so far that ain’t happening.

 

[NewBlackDak]

I pay $109 for 3x oil change+tire rotation+car wash at my dealership, diesel is ~$.50 more in the summer and $1 more in winter, and my lifetime mpg is around 13.5. The diesel numbers never work out.

Most of my trips being under 5 miles would make for an emissions nightmare.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SouthTexan]

I pay $109 for 3x oil change+tire rotation+car wash at my dealership, diesel is ~$.50 more in the summer and $1 more in winter, and my lifetime mpg is around 13.5. The diesel numbers never work out.

Most of my trips being under 5 miles would make for an emissions nightmare.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where do you live that diesel is $.50 higher in the summer and $1.00 higher in the winter?

Also, the 15.5 mpg I pulled from fuelly was just the average. There are some that get more then that so if you get higher then normal in the 6.4L with your driving style then you are likely to get higher than normal using the same driving style.

 

[coobie]

Question! How much are you 6.4L guys paying for an oil change and how often do you change it?

Around $65 bucks.

 

[CMV157]

If I was towing 12k on any regular basis at all I would get the Cummins without a 2nd thought. This coming from a guy who just sold his 2008 6.7 for a gas 6.4. My needs are much different which is why I made the switch.

 

[Ratket]

The noisy valve train is really starting to irritate me. Over this past weekend I actually came across two different 6.4”s while driving, got up next to them so I could listen to them and they sounded exactly like mine. I don’t remember it being as loud as it is but we did just relocate to a much much lower elevation.

 

[CMV157]

I don't know about fleets. And number of miles driven and average load are huge variable. But for a guy like me that drives the truck under 10k miles a year and no frequent super heavy loads, a diesel definitely costs more to operate and maintain. There isn't 2 ways about it. Particularly if the truck is legal (not deleted). Overall fuel costs may be similar with cost vs. mileage. But add urea, 2 batteries, egr cleanings, crankcase filter, fuel filter, oil changes, wear and tear on the front end and tires with the weight. Higher initial cost vs. resale value really only seems to payoff for the diesel if you keep it a long time and have 200k on both machines. It really isn't close overall for a guy like me which is part of the reason I'm switching from a 6.7 to a 6.4. I loved my cummins pulling though, that is the factor that is hard to put a $ on.

 

[U&A]

The noisy valve train is really starting to irritate me. Over this past weekend I actually came across two different 6.4”s while driving, got up next to them so I could listen to them and they sounded exactly like mine. I don’t remember it being as loud as it is but we did just relocate to a much much lower elevation.

Try a PAO/ester based oil with high zinc, phosphorus and moly. ...like redline. Or a little cheaper like schaeffer ( not ester) and it will quiet your 6.4 nicely. Seriously. An oil like Redline will do that. It even stops the hemi tic. If tou have questions about it visit the “synthetic oi” thread.

 

[Ratket]

I’ve been running the p.u.p, once I’m due for a oil change I’m gonna switch to redline and see if it helps. What’s weird is it’s only when you are on the throttle, you can notice it in park & drive, but it way more noticeable when the motor is under a load.

 

[SouthTexan]

I don't know about fleets. And number of miles driven and average load are huge variable. But for a guy like me that drives the truck under 10k miles a year and no frequent super heavy loads, a diesel definitely costs more to operate and maintain. There isn't 2 ways about it. Particularly if the truck is legal (not deleted). Overall fuel costs may be similar with cost vs. mileage. But add urea, 2 batteries, egr cleanings, crankcase filter, fuel filter, oil changes, wear and tear on the front end and tires with the weight. Higher initial cost vs. resale value really only seems to payoff for the diesel if you keep it a long time and have 200k on both machines. It really isn't close overall for a guy like me which is part of the reason I'm switching from a 6.7 to a 6.4. I loved my cummins pulling though, that is the factor that is hard to put a $ on.

I did the math in post #56 and more data on post #58.

 

[U&A]

I’ve been running the p.u.p, once I’m due for a oil change I’m gonna switch to redline and see if it helps. What’s weird is it’s only when you are on the throttle, you can notice it in park & drive, but it way more noticeable when the motor is under a load.

I know the exact noise you are talking when under a load/throttle only. I think that is the injectors. The only way to make that slightly quieter is a steady diet of an “upper cylinder lube” fule additive. I use MMO and TCW3.

JMO

 

[Ratket]

Ya the dealership said it was the injectors, I wasn’t sure. I just know when I can hear it over my magnaFlow - Not cool lol

 

[Cooper]

I'm in the same boat as Night Ram's dad. I hope to retire in 6 months to a year and just bought a new TT the UVW is at just about 8,000 LBS. so not sure which motor to get 6.4 or 6.7. My truck will be a daily driver and for the first year maybe go on 1-3 week long trips. Not sure once I retire, the hope is to be gone around month come home a month and go again and see the country. Were in California so no mater where I go I'm going to going over some mountain range to leave the state. I have read other threads about the 6.7 if used as a daily driver make sure you get it up on the freeway and go, don't sit at idle for a long time etc. Where I work I'm only 9 miles from home but do get on the freeway. The gas VS diesel cost I'm not concerned with as this will probably be the last truck I buy. One thing I have not seen mention hardly in threads is the diesel brake. Is it that much of a help?