6.4 vs 6.7

[SouthTexan]

It is a new engine with technology that was just transfered over from the 5.7, so not quite the same situation.

If you are going to say that then I can say SCR technology has been used for years(since the 1950s) and was just adapted to the Cummins exhaust system. Although, the 6.4L and 5.7L only share some parts. Many of the parts on the 6.4L are new and recently engineered. As a person who has worked around many automotive engineers, I can tell you that even the smallest of newly designed parts can throw a wrench into the system making an issue that could not have been foreseen in the drawing room. If everything an engineer designed was perfect, then we would not need warranties or have product defect recalls.

I swear, you guys are trying your damnedest to try to make the 6.7L out to be a bad engine choice for anyone. Why is that?

 

[SouthernBoy]

The 6.4L is a new engine with many unknowns is it not? So wouldn't that be another Chrysler/Ram experiment of being a guinea pig?

Although, this isn't Chrysler or Ram selling an experiment. SCRs have been used for years by many truck and engine manufacturers from class 1 all the way to class 8, and is proven that it works in eliminating the EGR and DPF issues. This is not just a Cummins thing either.

Gasoline engines in their current configuration are time tested and work fine.

Putting emission on diesels is still new and evolving. Apples to oranges.

 

[tjfdesmo]

Why is that?

Mostly to **** you off, I suspect

 

[SouthernBoy]

I swear, you guys are trying your damnedest to try to make the 6.7L out to be a bad engine choice for anyone. Why is that?

Im not trying to make anything look like anything. Im stating facts I lived through, lost money on, and had bigtime hassles with. This time not gonna be hoodwinked by marketing and sales talk. Why is it heresy to speak the truth? Ive not said one single thing untrue. Everyone else is free to gamble with thier own money as they see fit. No loss on my part and each to his own. Again, I think the 6.7 rocks, I just dont trust the crap bolted on to it.

 

[Ratket]

I am not sure, but are you thinking that the EGR works all the time with SCR? Without SCR, yes the EGR was working a lot and at extreme conditions to control NOx. With an SCR, the EGR is not required to work nearly as much to control NOx since the SCR does most of the NOx removal. This drastically cuts down how much the EGR valve opens since it only opens in certain conditions when NOx sensors downstream detect too much NOx.




No, the vehicle will not go in derate until the 250 miles has been depleted whether you turn your vehicle off or not. This is in the diesel supplement of the owners manual.

not the one that I drove. wouldn't go into limp mode untill it was shut off. also it was a 2013, they may have changed the programming for the 14"s.

 

[SouthTexan]

Gasoline engines in their current configuration are time tested and work fine.

Putting emission on diesels is still new and evolving. Apples to oranges.

Not really. Gasoline engines like the 6.4L Hemi in their current configurations with things like variable valve timing, variable ignition timing, and multi-displacement systems are fairly new technology in the history of engines. Those technologies caused issues like the Hemi timing chain and lifter issues that current 5.7L have experienced. In comparison, SCR systems have been around much longer than any of those technologies on boilers, large ship diesels engines, and diesel locomotives to name a few.

Im not trying to make anything look like anything. Im stating facts I lived through, lost money on, and had bigtime hassles with. This time not gonna be hoodwinked by marketing and sales talk. Why is it heresy to speak the truth? Ive not said one single thing untrue. Everyone else is free to gamble with thier own money as they see fit. No loss on my part and each to his own. Again, I think the 6.7 rocks, I just dont trust the crap bolted on to it.

True, but the same system that you had to deal with is not the same as what is currently offered with the 6.7L with the SCR system which completely eliminates the issues you had in yours.

 

[SouthernBoy]

True, but the same system that you had to deal with is not the same as what is currently offered with the 6.7L with the SCR system which completely eliminates the issues you had in yours.

They *say* its completely eliminated. Im sorry my friend, Im not buying any more promises from the same mouths that stole my money last time with the very same language you are using now. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice,,,,,

I have a right to my opinion, based on real-world experiences and the hassles and money I lost. I respect yours also.

 

[SouthTexan]

They *say* its completely eliminated. Im sorry my friend, Im not buying any more promises from the same mouths that stole my money last time with the very same language you are using now. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice,,,,,

I have a right to my opinion, based on real-world experiences and the hassles and money I lost. I respect yours also.

I understand you have the right to your opinion and am not saying anything against your opinion.

However, since you keep posting that the current 6.7L emissions system is bad, I am just trying to point out that the same 6.7L emissions system that you had issues with on your 09 is not the same one that is on the current 6.7L. The system that is in the current 6.7L has been proven by many manufacturers(not just Chrysler or Cummins) to eliminate the issues that you had in your 09 with millions of real world miles on class 7 and 8 diesel trucks. The SCR system has also logged millions of miles with it on the Powerstroke 6.7L and the Duramax 6.6L and they have not had the EGR and DPF issues.

So comparing your 09 6.7L emissions system to the current 6.7L emissions system is apples to oranges. This is all I am trying to get at.

 

[Ratket]

those new Toyota tundras are beastly!! what's the tow rating on them?? anyone know... I know I saw it pull a space shuttle once.

 

[loveracing1988]

Not really. Gasoline engines like the 6.4L Hemi in their current configurations with things like variable valve timing, variable ignition timing, and multi-displacement systems are fairly new technology in the history of engines. Those technologies caused issues like the Hemi timing chain and lifter issues that current 5.7L have experienced. In comparison, SCR systems have been around much longer than any of those technologies on boilers, large ship diesels engines, and diesel locomotives to name a few.

This is true, but you have a couple bad years with a new design (the 3.6 pentastar being a prime example) and then you are good. Between the egr issues and other emissions issues they had how many years of screwing people before they got it right. Ford had their disaster of the 6.0 and 6.4 from 2003 to 2010, the 6.4 having major emissions issues, and dodge/ram had their 2007.5 to 2012 owners cursing their trucks. That is the black eye they are dealing with and why people are reluctant to ever go diesel again.

 

[SouthTexan]

Here you go Southernboy. This is a great link explaining the emissions systems of the Cummins 6.7L and which years has what.

6.7L Cummins Emissions System Explained

 

[Arctic-Rodz]

Love my Cummins so far....

What's the extra maintenance cost I hear people talk about? I read over the Manual. I don't see anything majorly more expensive to worry about, did I miss something?

 

[SouthTexan]

This is true, but you have a couple bad years with a new design (the 3.6 pentastar being a prime example) and then you are good. Between the egr issues and other emissions issues they had how many years of screwing people before they got it right. Ford had their disaster of the 6.0 and 6.4 from 2003 to 2010, the 6.4 having major emissions issues, and dodge/ram had their 2007.5 to 2012 owners cursing their trucks. That is the black eye they are dealing with and why people are reluctant to ever go diesel again.

The emissions systems on those diesels engines is not the same as the one on the current diesel engines. I seem to keep reading from multiple people that they are just waiting for them to fix the emissions systems to buy a diesel. Well they have and the same people are still saying the same thing.

Although you cannot say that is why people are reluctant to ever buy a diesel. You can say it is why "some" people are reluctant to ever buy a diesel. Most that I have seen on here and many other sites are those that are just trying to justify their choice. They seem to feel that if they can point out enough negatives about what they didn't buy but wanted, then it would make them feel better about what they did buy. I don't get why they do that, but all the "this versus that" is a bit silly when everyone has different needs and wants. As another poster pointed out, why the beef? Especially on an engine one chose not to buy?

 

[loveracing1988]

The emissions systems on those diesels engines is not the same as the one on the current diesel engines. I seem to keep reading from multiple people that they are just waiting for them to fix the emissions systems to buy a diesel. Well they have and the same people are still saying the same thing.

Although you cannot say that is why people are reluctant to ever buy a diesel. You can say it is why "some" people are reluctant to ever buy a diesel. Most that I have seen on here and many other sites are those that are just trying to justify their choice. They seem to feel that if they can point out enough negatives about what they didn't buy but wanted, then it would make them feel better about what they did buy. I don't get why they do that, but all the "this versus that" is a bit silly when everyone has different needs and wants. As another poster pointed out, why the beef? Especially on an engine one chose not to buy?

I'm more saying why people like SouthernBoy won't buy one. A lot of people got burned by the big three for those years before def was introduced. Also go over to the ecodiesel forum and see all of the people that are have to deal with essentially the same emissions equipment on a different truck and there are a lot of people who are having def specific issues. If the manufacturers would not rely on the consumer to do a lot of their R&D we would be a lot better off.

 

[Burd Man]

Both engines are awesome. If costs were the same, I'd have a Cummins. Since they are not, I have a Hemi. As much as I want to say I need all that towing and hauling capacity, (Farm) I can't. We've been beating the **** out of second gen 318's and 360's for years and have gotten by fine. These new power plants are just monsters. It's a truck golden age. Buy whichever you want/can afford and be happy knowing it will get the job done.

 

[SouthernBoy]

So comparing your 09 6.7L emissions system to the current 6.7L emissions system is apples to oranges. This is all I am trying to get at.

Sir I understand what you are saying, but you dont seem to be hearing me. Bottom line is I am not willing to spend 8K on more promises from Chrysler. They left us BlueTech owners hanging with a ************* and never once owned up to the fact they sold us a flawed design. If they would came out with a big recall and put something else on those trucks to remedy thier ****** design, that would be one thing, but they didnt. They basically looked the other way and let us all spend countless days at thier Service Centers having turbos washed out, EGR valves flushed repeatedly and DPFs completely replaced because no amount of REGEN would burn that **** out. When my truck died they put a NEW turbo, NEW DPF and pulled the entire EGR assembly and had to rebuild that clogged up POS. This was at 35,000 on the speedo. What kinda ****** up design craps itself completely at 35K? They did not issue any recalls or come out with anything to remedy this ****** design, they left us hanging and I inevitably had to sell that problematic truck because I cant afford to spend 7-grand on repairs every 35,000 miles. (or else just delete the entire thing to the tune of about $1750 and drive around breaking Federal laws) And to this very day, folks who own 2007.5 thru whenever they went to the ****-tank trucks, all those folks are stuck with that ************* they looked all of us right in the eye and told us it was a good design.

Some people get where Im coming from, some dont. I dont know how to make it any clearer. Thanks for taking time to post links and give your viewpoint.

 

[SouthTexan]

I'm more saying why people like SouthernBoy won't buy one. A lot of people got burned by the big three for those years before def was introduced. Also go over to the ecodiesel forum and see all of the people that are have to deal with essentially the same emissions equipment on a different truck and there are a lot of people who are having def specific issues. If the manufacturers would not rely on the consumer to do a lot of their R&D we would be a lot better off.

That may explain why some may not want to buy one, but that does not explain why the beef? Why did Twilliams feel the need to explain what he sees as negative in the 6.7L after HDperfromance said something positive about it and said nothing negative about the 6.4L. Why did SouthernBoy do the same to Mike_123? You guys already explained why you guys didn't buy what you did so why come back around and day something negative about it right after someone said something positive about.

You don't see me or any other 6.7L owner following up a 6.4L post with nothing but negatives about the 6.4L. Why? Because I don't feel the need to justify my purchase. I don't feel like I have to bash the 6.4L every time I see something posting about it just to make me feel better about buying my 6.7L. I read some 6.4L owner in here saying that people are allowed to state their opinion in here which they are, but why do the 6.7L owners get hassled for stating their opinion multiple times in this thread? Does this "everyone has a right to state their opinion" only extend to 6.4L and most 6.7L posts will get hassled?

I bet if I followed up someone's 6.4L post with what I saw as negative about the 6.4L then this room would be a crap storm, and that would be okay for all the 6.4L guys in this thread. However, if I corrected a few false statements said about the 6.7L then I get chastised for it. Why is that? You guys are going by some double standard where it is okay for a 6.4L guy to say something negative about the 6.7L, but all panties get in a *** when a 6.7L guy even corrects what was falsely said. Hypocritical much?

 

[1500ram12]

I remember hearing about how ****** the blue tech system was. When I had my 05 cummins dually I was considering trading for a 07 2500 with blue tech. Due to what a majority of the responses on another forum saying that the blue tech was a bad system (granted most just hated the dpf system) i choose to keep the 5.9 a bit longer. When I first picked up my 2010 first thing to go was the dpf/egr system. I didn't have a warranty so I didn't want to deal with any problems. I've known a few people with 11's and 12's where the dpf system wasn't going into regen and went into limp mode and could only go 40mph to make it to a shop. I think the biggest problems with the emissions systems arise from not enough long driving trips. Unlike truckers who are on the road for 8+ hours a day. So yes the dpf system work for the most part.

Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

 

[SouthTexan]

Sir I understand what you are saying, but you dont seem to be hearing me. Bottom line is I am not willing to spend 8K on more promises from Chrysler........

And I don't know how to make it more clearer that the same exhaust system that was in your truck is not the same ome in the new 6.7L. The new system has a different EGR, it doesn't have an NAC, and it has an SCR in it's place. These are apples to oranges comparisons. Also, I thought you deleted your emissions systems?

 

[Mike_123]

Sir I understand what you are saying, but you dont seem to be hearing me. Bottom line is I am not willing to spend 8K on more promises from Chrysler. They left us BlueTech owners hanging with a ************* and never once owned up to the fact they sold us a flawed design. If they would came out with a big recall and put something else on those trucks to remedy thier ****** design, that would be one thing, but they didnt. They basically looked the other way and let us all spend countless days at thier Service Centers having turbos washed out, EGR valves flushed repeatedly and DPFs completely replaced because no amount of REGEN would burn that **** out. When my truck died they put a NEW turbo, NEW DPF and pulled the entire EGR assembly and had to rebuild that clogged up POS. This was at 35,000 on the speedo. What kinda ****** up design craps itself completely at 35K? They did not issue any recalls or come out with anything to remedy this ****** design, they left us hanging and I inevitably had to sell that problematic truck because I cant afford to spend 7-grand on repairs every 35,000 miles. (or else just delete the entire thing to the tune of about $1750 and drive around breaking Federal laws) And to this very day, folks who own 2007.5 thru whenever they went to the ****-tank trucks, all those folks are stuck with that ************* they looked all of us right in the eye and told us it was a good design.

Some people get where Im coming from, some dont. I dont know how to make it any clearer. Thanks for taking time to post links and give your viewpoint.

Yet you bought another Chrysler product
In fact another Chrysler product with something new in it

One has to wonder why