Advice needed - CAM/Lifter noise

[davisbry20]

Looking for some advice on how to proceed?

I currently have 94k on my recently paid-off 2017. Bought with 22k on it. Had several smaller things covered under warranty replaced initially. Then around 45k had to have the Transmission replaced (new "rebuilt") under warranty. Then the starter went out shortly after that. I just recently had the exhaust resurfaced/machined and bolts upgraded at 90k. Had bolts double-checked as I started hearing a ticking/tapping again as with the original exhaust tick and all is still good there. The tick/tap is back and it isn't the exhaust and occurs cold or hot, more pronounced when hot. When parked, I can push lightly on the accelerator and hear the tapping increase as the RPMs increase. My fear is this is the beginning of the lifters going.

Additionally, I'm experiencing a bit of a lunge from the transmission when smoothly taking off from a stop. Hoping a trans drain/fill will solve this...thoughts?

I've always ran Amsoil with decent filters and replaced between 4-5k miles each time. Pretty particular about the maintenance on it.

Options/actions I've considered based on research here:
1- See if there is a test/diagnostics that can identify IF its the lifters at an early stage?
2- if bad, replace Cam and Lifters with an upgraded replacement (not OEM - suggestions welcome on brand here) + Drain/Fill Trans
3- if bad, replace Cam and Lifters and also upgrade to the 6.1L oil pump (hellcat I think) + Drain/Fill Trans
4- Do nothing to Cam/Lifters, just Drain/Fill Trans
5- Do nothing and Sell it

Local Dealer has already quoted $4800 for 'labor alone' in just the CAM/Lifter replacement. I believe it was around $6k for cam/lifter parts/labor with an Oil Pump upgrade.

Any help/suggestions/or recommended places in Northern VA to get things repaired are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Wild one]

Looking for some advice on how to proceed?

I currently have 94k on my recently paid-off 2017. Bought with 22k on it. Had several smaller things covered under warranty replaced initially. Then around 45k had to have the Transmission replaced (new "rebuilt") under warranty. Then the starter went out shortly after that. I just recently had the exhaust resurfaced/machined and bolts upgraded at 90k. Had bolts double-checked as I started hearing a ticking/tapping again as with the original exhaust tick and all is still good there. The tick/tap is back and it isn't the exhaust and occurs cold or hot, more pronounced when hot. When parked, I can push lightly on the accelerator and hear the tapping increase as the RPMs increase. My fear is this is the beginning of the lifters going.

Additionally, I'm experiencing a bit of a lunge from the transmission when smoothly taking off from a stop. Hoping a trans drain/fill will solve this...thoughts?

I've always ran Amsoil with decent filters and replaced between 4-5k miles each time. Pretty particular about the maintenance on it.

Options/actions I've considered based on research here:
1- See if there is a test/diagnostics that can identify IF its the lifters at an early stage?
2- if bad, replace Cam and Lifters with an upgraded replacement (not OEM - suggestions welcome on brand here) + Drain/Fill Trans
3- if bad, replace Cam and Lifters and also upgrade to the 6.1L oil pump (hellcat I think) + Drain/Fill Trans
4- Do nothing to Cam/Lifters, just Drain/Fill Trans
5- Do nothing and Sell it

Local Dealer has already quoted $4800 for 'labor alone' in just the CAM/Lifter replacement. I believe it was around $6k for cam/lifter parts/labor with an Oil Pump upgrade.

Any help/suggestions/or recommended places in Northern VA to get things repaired are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Start with a compression test,quite often if the cam is going bad,that cylinder will be down on cranking psi.
The Hellcat is a 6.2,the 6.1 is the earlier non-vvt engine,and their oil pumps aren't really compatiable with the later VVT engines.Another option is unlock your pcm and adjust your idle rpm up to at least 700 rpm or slightly higher,as the hellcat pump isn't with-out it's downsides either
The OEM non-mds lifters are pretty tough to beat.Your cheapest option would be to replace the cam with either a stock 5.7 non-mds cam,or step up to the non-mds 6.4 cam,they're the cams used in the manual transmission Challengers.Both will require unlocking your pcm so you can tune for the cam.
If the trucks in good shape,and it's paid off,it's probably worth spending money on,instead of having bank payments again,your call,but i know i hate monthly bank payments,lol

 

[davisbry20]

Much appreciated Wild One!! Taking your advice and dropping the truck off tomorrow so they can test everything. Fingers-crossed.

Couldn't agree more on not having payments. Not happy at the thought of having new payments again nor the $6k+ to fix.

You mentioned the Hellcat Oil pump having issues. In your opinion, is it NOT worth doing the oil pump upgrade to mitigate the same issue from happening again?

 

[Wild one]

Much appreciated Wild One!! Taking your advice and dropping the truck off tomorrow so they can test everything. Fingers-crossed.

Couldn't agree more on not having payments. Not happy at the thought of having new payments again nor the $6k+ to fix.

You mentioned the Hellcat Oil pump having issues. In your opinion, is it NOT worth doing the oil pump upgrade to mitigate the same issue from happening again?

The Hellcat pump has been known to throw codes,and it runs way to much pressure in most instances for the 5.7.You're better bet is to bump your idle rpm up to 700/725,and stick with the stock pump.You'll have higher idle pressures and you won't have to worry about codes popping up.The stock pump is perfectly adequate if you bump up the idle

 

[CanuckRam1313]

The Hellcat pump has been known to throw codes,and it runs way to much pressure in most instances for the 5.7.You're better bet is to bump your idle rpm up to 700/725,and stick with the stock pump.You'll have higher idle pressures and you won't have to worry about codes popping up.The stock pump is perfectly adequate if you bump up the idle

Valuable info to know, Burla, and thanks!

I was contemplating upgrading to the Hellcat oil pump for protection factor.

However, not having to do this expensive and time consuming work unnecessarily is a bonus.

I do want to go the HP Tuner route vs Diablosport, but finding someone reputable in my area of Ontario, Canada who specializes in HP Tuner with the HEMI 5.7 Ram Trucks is proving a bit of a challenge at the moment.

 

[huntergreen]

The Hellcat pump has been known to throw codes,and it runs way to much pressure in most instances for the 5.7.You're better bet is to bump your idle rpm up to 700/725,and stick with the stock pump.You'll have higher idle pressures and you won't have to worry about codes popping up.The stock pump is perfectly adequate if you bump up the idle

I miss the days we could adjust the idle with a screw driver !

 

[davisbry20]

Start with a compression test,quite often if the cam is going bad,that cylinder will be down on cranking psi.
The Hellcat is a 6.2,the 6.1 is the earlier non-vvt engine,and their oil pumps aren't really compatiable with the later VVT engines.Another option is unlock your pcm and adjust your idle rpm up to at least 700 rpm or slightly higher,as the hellcat pump isn't with-out it's downsides either
The OEM non-mds lifters are pretty tough to beat.Your cheapest option would be to replace the cam with either a stock 5.7 non-mds cam,or step up to the non-mds 6.4 cam,they're the cams used in the manual transmission Challengers.Both will require unlocking your pcm so you can tune for the cam.
If the trucks in good shape,and it's paid off,it's probably worth spending money on,instead of having bank payments again,your call,but i know i hate monthly bank payments,lol

Welp, the diagnostics test didn't produce anything and the RAM mechanics recommended using 5w-40 to get rid of the "normal" ticking noise. After additional research, I went with PUP 5W-30 and a Fram Synthetic Oil filter recommended by many on here. Upon start up after changing the oil and filter, the tapping noise that came from the top (lifters I'm assuming) was so loud it completely startled me and I thought something was broke. After 3-5 seconds it started to settle down and then evolved into the typical noise I've been hearing. Now I believe I'm fully aware as to when all the mechanics and other descriptions here say..."you'll know when its the lifters and not the exhaust tick". Called around some more to see about repair costs and it's between $6500 - 8K now and most shops don't want to tackle the Cam/Lifter replacement. I don't think it's cost effective or worth trying to fix at this point.

All that said, going to try going back to my typical Amsoil and filter for the time being to see if that quiets things down a bit until I can research a different truck.

Appreciate all the help everyone has provided throughout the last several years. Greatly appreciated for sure!!

 

[Wild one]

Welp, the diagnostics test didn't produce anything and the RAM mechanics recommended using 5w-40 to get rid of the "normal" ticking noise. After additional research, I went with PUP 5W-30 and a Fram Synthetic Oil filter recommended by many on here. Upon start up after changing the oil and filter, the tapping noise that came from the top (lifters I'm assuming) was so loud it completely startled me and I thought something was broke. After 3-5 seconds it started to settle down and then evolved into the typical noise I've been hearing. Now I believe I'm fully aware as to when all the mechanics and other descriptions here say..."you'll know when its the lifters and not the exhaust tick". Called around some more to see about repair costs and it's between $6500 - 8K now and most shops don't want to tackle the Cam/Lifter replacement. I don't think it's cost effective or worth trying to fix at this point.

All that said, going to try going back to my typical Amsoil and filter for the time being to see if that quiets things down a bit until I can research a different truck.

Appreciate all the help everyone has provided throughout the last several years. Greatly appreciated for sure!!

Before you totally give up on it,try Redline 5W-30 and a good filter.Redline 5W-30 and Royal Purple filters have a rep of being Hemi honey.At the very least try throwing a bottle of Biotech LubeGard into the oil your using if it's not Redline

 

[davisbry20]

Already have the Amsoil and filter so I'll give the Biotech Lubeguard a try. Thanks again!!

 

[davisbry20]

Before you totally give up on it,try Redline 5W-30 and a good filter.Redline 5W-30 and Royal Purple filters have a rep of being Hemi honey.At the very least try throwing a bottle of Biotech LubeGard into the oil your using if it's not Redline

Gave the Biotech Lubeguard a shot and I have mixed results. Did another oil change in the truck with Amsoil and added Lubeguard. Appeared to work great initally but having had the local shop I go too do it for me, as I was already getting the free tire rotate and balance service done. Truck sounded great that day picking it up and didn't hear any kncking/noise. Next morning I checked the oil and it was clear past the high dot mark on the dipstick and just before the hump. So I drained the oil a bit to where it is just barely below the high mark on the dipstick. Then the ticking and knocking came back.

I've since tried researching here and elsewhere to see if there is anything that could help explain why. A couple results mentioned a recall or wrong dipsticks being used. Some others mentioned just add 7 quarts and call it good never checking the dipstick. Some videos on youtube even had several 'Professional' auto company videos checking the oil after 2-3 mintues of shutting the engine off. Several here go by checking the oil after sitting overnight and cold to get a more accurate result.

Wondering now if the truck needs a little more oil than the dipstick show. Also not sure if it's just damaged lifters from not having enough oil in it for so long having always checked it cold and that it really needed to be checked only a few minutes after shutting the engine off? Any thoughts???

For what it's worth the Lubeguard really helped with my wifes CRV. Much appreciated recommendation for sure!!!

 

[Wild one]

Gave the Biotech Lubeguard a shot and I have mixed results. Did another oil change in the truck with Amsoil and added Lubeguard. Appeared to work great initally but having had the local shop I go too do it for me, as I was already getting the free tire rotate and balance service done. Truck sounded great that day picking it up and didn't hear any kncking/noise. Next morning I checked the oil and it was clear past the high dot mark on the dipstick and just before the hump. So I drained the oil a bit to where it is just barely below the high mark on the dipstick. Then the ticking and knocking came back.

I've since tried researching here and elsewhere to see if there is anything that could help explain why. A couple results mentioned a recall or wrong dipsticks being used. Some others mentioned just add 7 quarts and call it good never checking the dipstick. Some videos on youtube even had several 'Professional' auto company videos checking the oil after 2-3 mintues of shutting the engine off. Several here go by checking the oil after sitting overnight and cold to get a more accurate result.

Wondering now if the truck needs a little more oil than the dipstick show. Also not sure if it's just damaged lifters from not having enough oil in it for so long having always checked it cold and that it really needed to be checked only a few minutes after shutting the engine off? Any thoughts???

For what it's worth the Lubeguard really helped with my wifes CRV. Much appreciated recommendation for sure!!!

If it was quite till you drained some oil out of it,i'd try adding another litre of oil to it,and see what happens.The engines have a windage tray,so a little bit of extra oil doesn't really hurt them.

 

[davisbry20]

If it was quite till you drained some oil out of it,i'd try adding another litre of oil to it,and see what happens.The engines have a windage tray,so a little bit of extra oil doesn't really hurt them.

Started the truck up before adding more just to double hceck. Wife confirmed as well the knock is pretty loud. I added about a 1/2 to 2/3rds more oil and then started it up. The knocking conitunued for about 2 minutes and then slowly disappeared. Excited for this and greatful for all of the advice.

So should I call it good at this point and keep on truck'n OR is there any reason I should be concerned about any damage being caused by a potential lack of oil??

 

[Wild one]

Started the truck up before adding more just to double hceck. Wife confirmed as well the knock is pretty loud. I added about a 1/2 to 2/3rds more oil and then started it up. The knocking conitunued for about 2 minutes and then slowly disappeared. Excited for this and greatful for all of the advice.

So should I call it good at this point and keep on truck'n OR is there any reason I should be concerned about any damage being caused by a potential lack of oil??

What did you roughly drain out of it,add at least that amount back in,as adding a 1/2 a quart isn't really much.I'd throw at least another 1/2 quart into it,and drive it,as only time will tell if the engine is hurt or not. Next time do your own oil change,and put 7 quarts of oil into it,then mark the dipstick ,so you know where full is.

 

[crash68]

I added about a 1/2 to 2/3rds more oil and then started it up. The knocking conitunued for about 2 minutes and then slowly disappeared.

Have to wonder if there's an issue with the oil pump pick up. Seems odd a half quart or so shouldn't make a difference on the engine making noise. I've seen some engines be almost two quarts down without issue.

 

[Travelin Ram]

Have to wonder if there's an issue with the oil pump pick up. Seems odd a half quart or so shouldn't make a difference on the engine making noise. I've seen some engines be almost two quarts down without issue.

I was wondering the same. I am not familiar with the intimate details of the Hemi oil pickup.

I do know on GM LS engines what’s described is a well known issue of an aged o-ring on the pickup tube sucking air.

 

[SixFOURhemiHD]

The Hellcat pump has been known to throw codes,and it runs way to much pressure in most instances for the 5.7.You're better bet is to bump your idle rpm up to 700/725,and stick with the stock pump.You'll have higher idle pressures and you won't have to worry about codes popping up.The stock pump is perfectly adequate if you bump up the idle

I just went through a lifter failure in my 2018 2500 6.4. Bad tick out of nowhere, started running rough. My mechanic diagnosed as failed lifter as soon as he heard it. Installed an MDS delete kit with Hellcat lifters and a Comp Cams no tune required mds delete cam, claim its worth 30hp on a stock PCM, dont know if thats true but it feels noticeably more powerful than before. Also installed the Hellcat Pump, in the 60 psi range cold, idles in the 40s/50s when warm, gets 70ish psi driving, and as high as 76psi at WOT. No codes from the hellcat pump thus far, and I have heard you can replace you oil pressure sensor with the hellcat sensor and that fixes the code throwing issue. I think its worth it for the extra protection on cold starts. My understanding is the hellcast pump is made for the same pressure level as the OEM pump, but flows more volume, which is what causes the increase in pressure as the greater volume flows through the same restriction as before. You do have to disable MDS in the PCM to run this cam, but can be a stock tune. Mods in my sig for reference how it runs when modded. I believe this cam is only sold by MMX, where I got mine. Parts for the MDS delete and cam, plus oil pump, was around $1500, and my shop charged me under $3k for the labor. Big pill to swallow, but makes sense to me versus buying a new truck at current prices, and now I have peace of mind it'll be reliable.

 

[Wild one]

I just went through a lifter failure in my 2018 2500 6.4. Bad tick out of nowhere, started running rough. My mechanic diagnosed as failed lifter as soon as he heard it. Installed an MDS delete kit with Hellcat lifters and a Comp Cams no tune required mds delete cam, claim its worth 30hp on a stock PCM, dont know if thats true but it feels noticeably more powerful than before. Also installed the Hellcat Pump, in the 60 psi range cold, idles in the 40s/50s when warm, gets 70ish psi driving, and as high as 76psi at WOT. No codes from the hellcat pump thus far, and I have heard you can replace you oil pressure sensor with the hellcat sensor and that fixes the code throwing issue. I think its worth it for the extra protection on cold starts. My understanding is the hellcast pump is made for the same pressure level as the OEM pump, but flows more volume, which is what causes the increase in pressure as the greater volume flows through the same restriction as before. You do have to disable MDS in the PCM to run this cam, but can be a stock tune. Mods in my sig for reference how it runs when modded. I believe this cam is only sold by MMX, where I got mine. Parts for the MDS delete and cam, plus oil pump, was around $1500, and my shop charged me under $3k for the labor. Big pill to swallow, but makes sense to me versus buying a new truck at current prices, and now I have peace of mind it'll be reliable.

Other option guys have done is to install the stock 5.7 bypass spring in the Hellcat pump ,or shim the factory bypass spring in the stock 5.7 pump to bump up the pressure slightly. I still think the best option is to tune the engine and bump the idle rpm up to 700/750 rpm,as the cam lobes to some extent are still lubed by oil flung off the crank,and the higher the idle rpm,the more oil is flung off the crank

 

[sgtryanusmc]

Before you totally give up on it,try Redline 5W-30 and a good filter.Redline 5W-30 and Royal Purple filters have a rep of being Hemi honey.At the very least try throwing a bottle of Biotech LubeGard into the oil your using if it's not Redline

whatcha think about 6 qts redline 5w-30 and a qt bioguard?

 

[turkeybird56]

I miss the days we could adjust the idle with a screw driver !

Heck, sometimes, I would just move the dashpot a bit tweaked so the bump stop would make a higher RPM instead of turning/tuning air and fuel and rpm ratios. Those old Friggin Rochester Quads were a PITA. The holleys were friendlier, but the Rochesters, argh.

 

[Wild one]

whatcha think about 6 qts redline 5w-30 and a qt bioguard?

Just do 7 quarts of Redline 5W-30