Brake Controller

[cc rider]

Your the first one I've seen complain with a 14 truck. I know yours is a different part number.

 

[drittal]

Does the 14 version have an accelerometer??

 

[EvilGTO]

Ok...

I actually registered just to add my .02 to this thread

i have a 2015 3500 Crew Cab Dually that tows my 16k LB 5er around for work.

i have had this thing since last winter, and really just thought I had issues with my trailers brakes. i just had them replaced and am running into the same thing barely any braking from the trailer.

i have been running down this same rabbit hole of testing voltage and here is some of the things I have done to test this.

there is a local RV trailer shop near where we are staying now (Arrow trailer supply ontario). They have a home built machine that tests the brake controller output.

he saw 10A and 12V at full braking

here is whats odd.....

when I hook up the trailer i see 7.3v on the line...

I was told to test my rig with the brake away controller and sure enough i get 12v to the brakes and the wheels are full locked up...

Now I want to toss my hat in the ring to add some fuel to the fire yelling at dodge.. the only thing I can think of is it may be a wattage limitation on the system meaning that the maximum you can pull wattage wise through the controller is XXXX and our brakes require more amperage to function which means that the voltage droops down below the 12v available (would love to test this on a much lighter trailer, we are hooking up tomorrow to go to Vegas from so cal, and I may disconnect 2 brakes and see if i can get a full 12 v with less load).

I will report back when i do this tomorrow just to see whats what...

I cannot believe this is such a ****** up thing.. luckily for us our exhaust brake is amazing going down hill... at least in our setup.

I am no EE... i am just making guesses here from what I have seen.... perhpase 10AX12v (120W) is max, and our trailers require something closer to 15A to function properly??


edit...

i have found something interesting.. with my 12" brakes the estimated amperage to function per axle is 8.4, so if we take 16.8 (since I have a tandem axle) and multiply it by the voltage I am seeing we get ~122.64 watts (roughly).. I bet you anything these brake controllers have a built in wattage limitation that means a maximum duty cycle of 120W which at 16.8A we get 7.3V....

edit 2..

I hope im not making a total fool of myself here haha... I have been picking up a lot on electrical stuff (watts, amps, volts) doing the inverter installation in my RV...

 

[Kwhite]

I got exactly the same voltage readings as Drittal on my truck

 

[BossHogg]

i have found something interesting.. with my 12" brakes the estimated amperage to function per axle is 8.4, so if we take 16.8 (since I have a tandem axle) and multiply it by the voltage I am seeing we get ~122.64 watts (roughly).. I bet you anything these brake controllers have a built in wattage limitation that means a maximum duty cycle of 120W which at 16.8A we get 7.3V....

Welcome and thanks for sharing your results, the more folks we get, well...

I built a trailer brake simulator, I used the armature of a 12 volt dc motor for the inductor, and a 6 ohm 5 watt resister for the load. If anyone would like to build one, just use one or more electro-magnets from an electric brake. Available from your local trailer parts store.

The first thing I did was to connect my 2013 RAM to my Montana 3790RD RV, with the ITBM at 100% (manual slider) I measured 11.96 volts, 12.6 amps, and a duty cycle of 97%.

Next I connected the 2015 RAM to the Montana, 100% braking by the manual slider, 6.96 volts, 66% duty cycle, didn't bother with the amps because it is meaningless at this point. Then I attached the simulator to the 2015 RAM, got the same measurements. Took the simulator to the 2013 RAM and matched the results I saw when attached to the Montana. Good, I have a simulator I can use to look at other RAMs.

Lucky for me, I work on a campus that houses well over 3,000 employees. In my group I located a few 2015 RAMs with the ITBM. Using my simulator I found all the 2015s unable to provide full braking output. The highest measured was 73% duty cycle. I found two 2014s, they were able to put out the full duty cycle like my 2013 RAM.

My Montana has twin Dexter 7k pound axles. Dexter told me to expect about three amps per brake at 12 volts. Using my Prodigy P2 in my 2015 RAM, I made a few hard stops and found the Dexter's need 10.5 volts to provide hard braking. The seven volts from the 2015 ITBM just isn't cutting it.

I thought the real issue would be proving the issue with the ITBM but it isn't, the real problem is getting someone in a position than can take action to listen.

 

[cc rider]

Boss, any suggestions on when i take my trailer down. What i should ask, say, etc.? All this testing is a little over my head. Im not sure how their scan tool works or what to expect.

 

[PippinAin'tEasy]

Welcome and thanks for sharing your results, the more folks we get, well...

I built a trailer brake simulator, I used the armature of a 12 volt dc motor for the inductor, and a 6 ohm 5 watt resister for the load. If anyone would like to build one, just use one or more electro-magnets from an electric brake. Available from your local trailer parts store.

The first thing I did was to connect my 2013 RAM to my Montana 3790RD RV, with the ITBM at 100% (manual slider) I measured 11.96 volts, 12.6 amps, and a duty cycle of 97%.

Next I connected the 2015 RAM to the Montana, 100% braking by the manual slider, 6.96 volts, 66% duty cycle, didn't bother with the amps because it is meaningless at this point. Then I attached the simulator to the 2015 RAM, got the same measurements. Took the simulator to the 2013 RAM and matched the results I saw when attached to the Montana. Good, I have a simulator I can use to look at other RAMs.

Lucky for me, I work on a campus that houses well over 3,000 employees. In my group I located a few 2015 RAMs with the ITBM. Using my simulator I found all the 2015s unable to provide full braking output. The highest measured was 73% duty cycle. I found two 2014s, they were able to put out the full duty cycle like my 2013 RAM.

My Montana has twin Dexter 7k pound axles. Dexter told me to expect about three amps per brake at 12 volts. Using my Prodigy P2 in my 2015 RAM, I made a few hard stops and found the Dexter's need 10.5 volts to provide hard braking. The seven volts from the 2015 ITBM just isn't cutting it.

I thought the real issue would be proving the issue with the ITBM but it isn't, the real problem is getting someone in a position than can take action to listen.

Those are stout findings. Maybe run the gizmo around to a few Ram dealerships on the weekend while folks are shopping? "Hello friend, I'm just a concerned citizen that would like to inform you about the purchase yer contemplating." Hit these sons 'o ******* in the coin purse and I bet you find a sympathetic ear. Also may be time to talk to the local State Transport Authority sub-station about yer recent findings. This is becoming damn near epidemic. Kick ass and leave a footprint, Boss.

Sent from the tailgate of a busted ass '84 El Camino using Tapatalk

 

[cc rider]

I posted about this issue on the "other" forum too. We need to get as many owners as possible to file a complaint/take action. Unfortunately, there haven't been many so far. I'm going to be doing it tonight or tomorrow

 

[guzzel]

I noticed this on my 2500, but when I moved the gain to 7 or 8, it was good.

 

[EvilGTO]

I posted about this issue on the "other" forum too. We need to get as many owners as possible to file a complaint/take action. Unfortunately, there haven't been many so far. I'm going to be doing it tonight or tomorrow

actually what might be a better option would be to get a youtube video up... and start trying to get it to go viral.. this may help a lot. if we can prove on video what is happening, and get it passed around to the multitude of forums its only a matter of time before it starts popping up on anyone who is searching for ram and trailer...


just a notion.. I may do this myself.

 

[jadocs]

actually what might be a better option would be to get a youtube video up... and start trying to get it to go viral.. this may help a lot. if we can prove on video what is happening, and get it passed around to the multitude of forums its only a matter of time before it starts popping up on anyone who is searching for ram and trailer...





just a notion.. I may do this myself.

Great idea

 

[cc rider]

Or we could do both

actually what might be a better option would be to get a youtube video up... and start trying to get it to go viral.. this may help a lot. if we can prove on video what is happening, and get it passed around to the multitude of forums its only a matter of time before it starts popping up on anyone who is searching for ram and trailer...


just a notion.. I may do this myself.

 

[EvilGTO]

Or we could do both

for sure we need to do both

 

[BossHogg]

Boss, any suggestions on when i take my trailer down. What i should ask, say, etc.? All this testing is a little over my head. Im not sure how their scan tool works or what to expect.

I would tell them the ITBM isn't providing enough voltage to your trailer when you have to make faster stops, focus on safety. That you measure the braking voltage and found it to be well under 12 volts. Make sure they don't try to point the figure at your trailer. I went to the dealer, the work order said the ITBM was putting out less than seven volts and they still blamed the my trailer even with documentation from my RV dealer indicating properly operating trailer brakes.

Experiences at dealers will vary simply because most do not have expertise troubleshooting electronics. Mention PWM and their eyes go blank. They rely on Chrysler's STAR support line which is staffed by entry level talent that reads from scripts.

actually what might be a better option would be to get a youtube video up... a I may do this myself.

Making a video is well outside my area of expertise but, I can provide pictures of screens of my test equipment showing the issue and comparisons to 2013 RAM ITBMs, and technical write-ups of the issue details.

 

[cc rider]

Maybe Ill take them for a "scary" ride!

 

[cc rider]

Hey guys check this link out. This guy had the same problem and got it fixed but it doesn't say what the issue was.
Brake Controller Not Working on RAM Pickup - Airstream Forums

 

[drittal]

Nice find CC. I registered and replied hoping to get an answer of what was replaced, if nothing else a phone number of the place that resolved his problem.

 

[cc rider]

You took the actions right out of my finger. I was gonna do the same someone on the "other" forum actually found that link. Trying to make people aware over there too. We can use all the help we can get

Nice find CC. I registered and replied hoping to get an answer of what was replaced, if nothing else a phone number of the place that resolved his problem.

 

[BossHogg]

Hey guys check this link out. This guy had the same problem and got it fixed but it doesn't say what the issue was.
Brake Controller Not Working on RAM Pickup - Airstream Forums

I read the entire thread and what his RV dealer found would explain why folks are measuring various voltages. Crossing my fingers Plan-B responds to drittal post.

All my measurements were at the 7 pin, I should measure at the ITBM and see what I get. If I have time today I will take a look. Wife and I are camping and I take my truck in tomorrow to get the cab fixed, were I collided the fiver cap and the truck cab. Lesson learned, I move the pin hitch back, don't know what I was thinking.

 

[drittal]

Maybe more of us should respond on that forum.