Charonblk07's build thread

[charonblk07]

I'll say this;

In my opinion the majority of people's belt slippage issues are caused by insufficient belt wrap and/or tension, not the type of belt or the number of ribs.

I was running 17 lbs boost making 600rwhp on my mustang on a six rib belt. I had a 10% OD crank pulley and a 2.65" supercharger pulley, and ZERO belt slip. I also had a ridiculous amount of belt tension and belt wrap.

Most definitely belt wrap is a big issue with my setup, the downside of the Ram's Procharger bracket is you can't get another idler pulley closer to the blower because of the way the blower's clocked. The bracket is also flexing a lot because it's so long and the entire head unit is unsupported. The tensioner is maxed out and with how tight it is there's about 1/2" between the upper belt and the one running over the tensioner so that's stopping another idler being installed or reclocking the tensioner.

As you can see, the bracket is massive and those 4 bolts at the bottom are the only connection to the engine, the rest is free to flex and it's bad enough that I can actually flex about 1/4" either way by hand. My bracket will be a lot closer to the block and will be braced back to the head as well as have multiple bracing plates to stop any flexing.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Most definitely belt wrap is a big issue with my setup, the downside of the Ram's Procharger bracket is you can't get another idler pulley closer to the blower because of the way the blower's clocked. The bracket is also flexing a lot because it's so long and the entire head unit is unsupported. The tensioner is maxed out and with how tight it is there's about 1/2" between the upper belt and the one running over the tensioner so that's stopping another idler being installed or reclocking the tensioner.

As you can see, the bracket is massive and those 4 bolts at the bottom are the only connection to the engine, the rest is free to flex and it's bad enough that I can actually flex about 1/4" either way by hand. My bracket will be a lot closer to the block and will be braced back to the head as well as have multiple bracing plates to stop any flexing.

Yea, that bracket looks like a joke.

A suggestion on the tensioner.

It's possible on some OEM tensioners to modify them for a longer swing and then stack two of them together to essentially double your belt tension AND increase the amount your belt can stretch. It gives you more options on belts and prevents issues where the tensioner maxes out and the belt tensions suddenly spikes, thus snapping the belt.

Here's a link to what I had on my mustang: Department of Boost :: Frankentensioner Belt Tensioner Kit

The guy that runs DOB, the company that designed that kit, is a pretty brilliant dude. He's as ****-retentive as anyone, and knows his ****. He certainly has done quite a bit of work developing supercharger kits, and these tensioners are no exception.

 

[charonblk07]

My god, has it been 2 months since I did anything to my truck? Yeah, it would be with being away from home for 6 weeks. The good news is I got a few things done, nothing earth shattering though, a few cosmetic and convenience items. To start with I finally got my vacuum pump installed so I can vent the crankcase properly, no more road draft tube. I ended up putting it in an open space on the battery tray for now but it will have to change since it vibrates so much it's actually quite loud in the cab, probably will get mounted where I had the smog pump the first time under the passenger side bed.


Next was a pure convenience mod. I never use the cigarette lighter and in all the repeated dismantling of the center console I've done I broke one of the retainer tabs on the lighter so I picked up a BlueSea dual USB port and it only took minor work to make it fit. I took my dremel with the sanding drum and skimmed the hole, and I mean barely had to take anything out to make this fit, cut the wires and crimped on some spade connectors and done.







Lastly, I received my dual adjustable QA1 TD805 shocks as well as my Addco front sway bar which has been on back order for the past 6 months. I know for a fact that this front bar is NOT going to save weight, my god, it's a heavy *******, but it will make a huge difference in the handling. We will now see if the Chris Alston endlinks will be able to handle it.





Going to take the truck to the strip tomorrow to see what it will run. It's not setup for the drag strip so much with only running 3.92s but I'm hoping the 28" drag radials will help in that department. It will be blower only, no **** or nitrous; AJ and I are still working on the tune so I can safely drop some nitrous into the mix the next time out.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Electric vac pump I take it?

How are you controlling the amount of vac in the motor?

Also, clean your damn console out! Hahaha

 

[charonblk07]

I picked up an adjustable vacuum switch to run the pump that's plumbed inline to the pump's suction line. I've got it set at its lowest which will kick on at 12inHg and turn off at 18inHg. Now, I put a vacuum gauge onto the fresh air make up line and with the full volume of air that it's trying to replace it's maintaining about 10-12inHg constant which is pretty much perfect to seal the ductile rings I'm using. I've got the dual catch cans as well so I'm not going to be pulling any oil into the pump and since I installed the vac pump I haven't had any exhaust smell in the cab from the FAMU's catchan vent which has been a big bonus. I just can't stand the vibration of the pump where it is so it'll be going away shortly but I only plan to run it while I'm at the drag strip for the moment.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I picked up an adjustable vacuum switch to run the pump that's plumbed inline to the pump's suction line. I've got it set at its lowest which will kick on at 12inHg and turn off at 18inHg. Now, I put a vacuum gauge onto the fresh air make up line and with the full volume of air that it's trying to replace it's maintaining about 10-12inHg constant which is pretty much perfect to seal the ductile rings I'm using. I've got the dual catch cans as well so I'm not going to be pulling any oil into the pump and since I installed the vac pump I haven't had any exhaust smell in the cab from the FAMU's catchan vent which has been a big bonus. I just can't stand the vibration of the pump where it is so it'll be going away shortly but I only plan to run it while I'm at the drag strip for the moment.

Ever thought about just going to a belt driven dry sump setup? You can run multiple stages on a single pump, some scavenge, some pumping, and get all your oiling needs plus all your vac.

That's what I'm going to do on my Vette. It's the ideal situation.

 

[charonblk07]

Ever thought about just going to a belt driven dry sump setup? You can run multiple stages on a single pump, some scavenge, some pumping, and get all your oiling needs plus all your vac.

That's what I'm going to do on my Vette. It's the ideal situation.

I've looked into them before and as you can imagine, it's slim pickings for a bolt-in kit so it would need to be built from the ground up. There's not a whole lot of room for things to be bolted to the engine and since I'm already building a new blower bracket there will be even less space. I've talked to a few people who've said you shouldn't run any accessories off of a dedicated cog drive belt because there's too much variation in RPM (over revving the accessory, etc) compared to running on the serpentine belt; so all that pretty much kills the idea of an engine driven sump and I don't trust electric pumps enough to run one on the street as the main old pump, same reason I'm not running a Meziere electric water pump; too easy for it to go bad at the wrong time.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

I've looked into them before and as you can imagine, it's slim pickings for a bolt-in kit so it would need to be built from the ground up. There's not a whole lot of room for things to be bolted to the engine and since I'm already building a new blower bracket there will be even less space. I've talked to a few people who've said you shouldn't run any accessories off of a dedicated cog drive belt because there's too much variation in RPM (over revving the accessory, etc) compared to running on the serpentine belt; so all that pretty much kills the idea of an engine driven sump and I don't trust electric pumps enough to run one on the street as the main old pump, same reason I'm not running a Meziere electric water pump; too easy for it to go bad at the wrong time.

Wait, what? How is running the oil pump off a cog belt any different than literally having it bolted to the crank?

But yea, you'd basically have to make the kit, and idk where you'd put the pump. If you had electronic power steering you might be able to use the PS location on the old timing covers, but I can't say for sure.

 

[charonblk07]

Wait, what? How is running the oil pump off a cog belt any different than literally having it bolted to the crank?

But yea, you'd basically have to make the kit, and idk where you'd put the pump. If you had electronic power steering you might be able to use the PS location on the old timing covers, but I can't say for sure.

Because I'm going to be running an 88 tooth crank pulley and to get the oil pump into the proper rpm range for the pressure I require I'd need to run a 50 tooth pulley on it; the pump isn't going to handle that weight on the front of it plus I'd have to find somewhere to add in another 50 tooth pulley into a system I'm trying to make as small as possible to prevent any bracket deflection.

It would work if I had the electric power steering but I have the PS pump that's running my steering rack and hydrobooster.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Because I'm going to be running an 88 tooth crank pulley and to get the oil pump into the proper rpm range for the pressure I require I'd need to run a 50 tooth pulley on it; the pump isn't going to handle that weight on the front of it plus I'd have to find somewhere to add in another 50 tooth pulley into a system I'm trying to make as small as possible to prevent any bracket deflection.

It would work if I had the electric power steering but I have the PS pump that's running my steering rack and hydrobooster.

I figured you'd run a seperate belt, but yea, it's getting crowded in there.

I've always liked serpentine belts for blowers though. I was spinning a 1.9L blower to 17psi on my 4.6L low compression motor with a six rib belt ans never had any slip.

 

[charonblk07]

I figured you'd run a seperate belt, but yea, it's getting crowded in there.

I've always liked serpentine belts for blowers though. I was spinning a 1.9L blower to 17psi on my 4.6L low compression motor with a six rib belt ans never had any slip.

The bracket and tensioner make a big difference when it comes to belt slippage with a serp system. I have a 6 rib belt, procharger's tensioner, and a 2ft long bracket, pretty much everything lined up against me. With a brand new belt I can make 15psi for about 2 minutes. The procharger tensioner has always been a weak point and has been replaced on many other brands with something that has a shorter rebound so there's less belt slack off-throttle but there's nothing on offer for the trucks. 2 people I know running big blowers have both had to modify their brackets heavily to stop them from bending under load but they were pre-Eagle engines which came with a shorter bracket.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

The bracket and tensioner make a big difference when it comes to belt slippage with a serp system. I have a 6 rib belt, procharger's tensioner, and a 2ft long bracket, pretty much everything lined up against me. With a brand new belt I can make 15psi for about 2 minutes. The procharger tensioner has always been a weak point and has been replaced on many other brands with something that has a shorter rebound so there's less belt slack off-throttle but there's nothing on offer for the trucks. 2 people I know running big blowers have both had to modify their brackets heavily to stop them from bending under load but they were pre-Eagle engines which came with a shorter bracket.

I may have mentioned this before, but there are some easy solutions to the issue of tension.

One is something like this: Department of Boost :: Frankentensioner Belt Tensioner Kit

You grind the limiters off two tensioners, then stack them on one another. It doubles your belt tension, and in the case of this one, nearly doubles your throw. I've never seen a frakentensioner bottom out.

 

[charonblk07]

I may have mentioned this before, but there are some easy solutions to the issue of tension.

One is something like this: Department of Boost :: Frankentensioner Belt Tensioner Kit

You grind the limiters off two tensioners, then stack them on one another. It doubles your belt tension, and in the case of this one, nearly doubles your throw. I've never seen a frakentensioner bottom out.

The idea would work if I was still using the stock tensioner location but the Procharger relocates the tensioner to the bracket and all you have is an idler pulley where the tensioner used to be. I could swap back to the stock tensioner location and then drill and build a new idler mount on the bracket to give the most belt wrap but since I'm already on my way to the cog drive I don't see the need to modify the bracket since I'm planning to sell it anyways.

 

[charonblk07]

So I've started working on the new blower bracket now that I have all the parts required to do the installation. The 6% OD harmonic dampener took forever to arrive and when I went to install the cog pulley it turns out that neither the cog drive system nor the dampener itself supplies the bolts to mount the accessory. So off to the only place in the city I can get the properly sized Allen head cap screw for the application. Once it was all assembled I mounted it on the original engine I pulled out of the truck to do all the test fitting. Had to heat up the mount quite a bit to get it to slide onto the crank snout, ended up melting my heat gun to pieces in the process but it worked and the heat gun was a cheap model anyways.

The new bracket positions the blower about 2" from the valve cover instead of 12" like it currently is so this should cut down on bracket flex big time. Even with it just being MDF for the template I can't flex the bracket like I can the 5/8" aluminum one supplied by Procharger. I am contemplating making the brackets out of 5/8" material instead of the 1/2" I currently have but we'll see.

At this point I've just been trying to get everything aligned to the crank cog pulley using a bunch of ready-rod/all-thread and appropriate nuts so I could get the needed spacer lengths for the brackets. Once I get those cut to the appropriate lengths then I can do the final fit of the brackets with proper hardware before I send out the templates to be precision water cut and machined. I'll be getting the belt measurements and then doing the manual tensioner when I get home in 2 weeks.

 

[hemihustlin]

The new bracket positions the blower about 2" from the valve cover instead of 12" like it currently is so this should cut down on bracket flex big time. Even with it just being MDF for the template I can't flex the bracket like I can the 5/8" aluminum one supplied by Procharger. I am contemplating making the brackets out of 5/8" material instead of the 1/2" I currently have but we'll see.

.

Will the new bracket be aluminum as well?

 

[charonblk07]

Will the new bracket be aluminum as well?

Debating between T6061-T651 aluminum or 316 stainless steel. Since it won't be anodized the aluminum will start to oxidize and pit over time since it's exposed in the winter which is why I'm debating; I get a good deal on plate either way but aluminum will be cheaper both for material and machining cost.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Debating between T6061-T651 aluminum or 316 stainless steel. Since it won't be anodized the aluminum will start to oxidize and pit over time since it's exposed in the winter which is why I'm debating; I get a good deal on plate either way but aluminum will be cheaper both for material and machining cost.

Geeze man, wash your engine bay! I've never seen aluminum oxidize past the surface layer.

 

[charonblk07]

Geeze man, wash your engine bay! I've never seen aluminum oxidize past the surface layer.

Lol, that's the original engine I pulled from the truck, I bought it with 103K on the odo and I don't think the PO knew how to open the hood since EVERY service was done at the dealership. It's just sat there for the last 3 years just waiting for me to tear it down and build up a stroker kit so rather than dismantling my engine bay every time I'm using it for the mock up to make the measurements easier. Once I get spacers I'll test fit everything in the engine bay for frame and accessory clearances.

 

[Dubstep Shep]

Oh I was just saying because you made the comment about the aluminum pitting.

 

[charonblk07]

Oh I was just saying because you made the comment about the aluminum pitting.

Ah, I gotcha now. I've seen lots of aluminum up here begin to heavily oxidize and pit over the years, especially if it's in contact with ferrous alloys. The ProCharger bracket is good for the most part but there are a few spots where it has begun to show signs of pitting in the lower areas where it sits close to the engine block. The engine heads and timing cover you see in the pics also have pitting in some areas where road grime gets into and you can't easily wash it out, at least it only pits a bit and doesn't layer flake like the steel does. It's winter and salt problems, enviously, not something you get much down your way. I'm also debating on the stainless because I absolutely love the look of stainless over aluminum, it's just whether it's worth the additional cost or not.