Cybertruck vs RAM 2500

[4xdad]

Put on some jeans and flash up the bbq let’s eat

 

[Docwagon1776]

Yes, if an idea is so vastly superior people will naturally move towards it. When there have to be financial incentives (that we the public pay for) and laws to force acceptance, well that product isn't ready for prime time.

Do you think the market would have moved away from leaded gas without outside intervention?

I get the idea that a free market place solves all ills, but it's an oversimplification due to hidden, communal, or passed costs. There is a legitimate need for both free market and legislative approaches if we're to arrive at a sustainable and prudent outcome. Sort of like hunting restrictions, the individual is incentivized to maximize their own take in the short term and the 'if I don't take this animal now, someone else will' and populations are decimated. Reasonable outside restrictions result in a better outcome for both individuals and society long term. Reasonable minds can differ on where exactly the line is drawn, but an unfettered 'free market' is as much a race to the bottom as communism, just for different reasons.

 

[4xdad]

How fast does it need to go to take flight lol

 

[4xdad]

It’s all good but don’t tell me I have to buy junk that won’t work for me and what I want to do. If it’s better people will buy it if not…

 

[4xdad]

We need better batteries not more Evs Or different technology that uses ice engines ideally something that could be retrofitted to existing systems. Hydrogen is an option but the technology is not yet available. But if you pay attention to this kind of thing you will know that all the major manufacturers are working on all kinds of things that will help. Wasn’t that long ago that all cars had a carburetor and points ignition. Now we have electric fuel injected and computer controlled ignition and transmissions. Eventually we will get it figured out unless we die first.

 

[4xdad]

Leaded gasoline is a good analogy it’s bad for the environment and people and it’s unnecessary a change in the engine technology with better oiling and the need for leaded gasoline is gone

 

[Wild one]

Leaded gasoline is a good analogy it’s bad for the environment and people and it’s unnecessary a change in the engine technology with better oiling and the need for leaded gasoline is gone

It was a change in valve seats more then oil.Unleaded gas requires hardened valve seats ,while leaded gas lubricates the seats and provides a softer cushion for the valve when it closes. When they switched to unleaded gas is when hardened valve seats really started to come into play. Some of the alternative fuels like propane/hydrogen etc,which are basically dry fuels with no lubricating properties, require high dollar valve seats and high dollar sodium filled hardened valves to have any life expectancy

 

[4xdad]

So a change in technology helped solve the problems to a certain extent. And now technology is progressing at an even faster pace

 

[4xdad]

Turbo charged 4 cylinder engine with 400 horsepower never used have those we do now

 

[OCVstar]

I’m on the list to get a cybertruck. But the prices are up about 25% from what I originally signed up for.
For that reason, I’ll buy another Ram.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Leaded gasoline is a good analogy it’s bad for the environment and people and it’s unnecessary a change in the engine technology with better oiling and the need for leaded gasoline is gone

No change in technology was required. Leaded fuel was simply cheaper and easier to patent, thus the most profitable route. Market forces chose the higher profit route, as they did not have to bare the costs of the consequences.

 

[tron67j]

Do you think the market would have moved away from leaded gas without outside intervention?

I get the idea that a free market place solves all ills, but it's an oversimplification due to hidden, communal, or passed costs. There is a legitimate need for both free market and legislative approaches if we're to arrive at a sustainable and prudent outcome. Sort of like hunting restrictions, the individual is incentivized to maximize their own take in the short term and the 'if I don't take this animal now, someone else will' and populations are decimated. Reasonable outside restrictions result in a better outcome for both individuals and society long term. Reasonable minds can differ on where exactly the line is drawn, but an unfettered 'free market' is as much a race to the bottom as communism, just for different reasons.

It can be argued that trading leaded for unleaded did not result in a better idea, it simply transferred use to an alternative fuel that didn't impact catalytic converters. The switch was to support "cleaner" air but it was not something that people would necessarily make a conscious decision to switch from leaded to unleaded (they had no choice ) so not an apples to apples comparison.

But I agree legislative assistance can hasten adoption of new technologies. But that assistance must be tied to requirements that benefit the public since it is their money. In the case of Tesla, they received at least a $465 million dollar loan, yes it was paid back. But the loan should have been tied to requirements that vehicles be produced and sold at an amount that would allow sale prices to be at a level to allow amln average buyer to acquire, no subsidies. It is ridiculous that we funded Tesla and now that company makes a mint while the Federal government continues to put thousands of dollars in the pockets of Musk and others before him.

The government is in an ideal position to fund innovation but it has to assure it owns a piece of the results forever to fund new innovation. This would basically give the Federal government, and by extension the public, a stake in the company after loans are paid back and should be in perpetuity. We funded Tesla and other companies who needed the help and that is a good thing. Letting the money continue to flow from government to private companies, bad thing. And if the better mouse trap is available and reasonable in price, the world will beat a path to the door.

 

[star_deceiver]

Still haven’t found any specific box dimensions of the Cybertruck. Still just 6’ x 4’… no specific cab to tailgate, tonneau to tailgate, width at cab, width at tailgate, weight capacity of tailgate, capacity of tie downs. The Canadian/American Tesla websites have nothing. Google has nothing. Still no prices on the Canadian website.

Every review of those with access to a Cybertruck are still just touting it as a rich man’s toy. Not one of them has even bothered to take a tape measure to the bed.

Hopefully TFL, Truck King, get the opportunity to find out it’s shortcomings.

 

[tron67j]

The list of people who got them will be a who's who of those that won't even know how to open the tailgate, a couple already identified. I mean one person complains that the extra, very heavy battery should go in the rear storage box under the floor and behind the rear wheels. Yep, the target market covered because Tesla.

 

[pacofortacos]

"But I agree legislative assistance can hasten adoption of new technologies. But that assistance must be tied to requirements that benefit the public since it is their money. In the case of Tesla, they received at least a $465 million dollar loan, yes it was paid back. But the loan should have been tied to requirements that vehicles be produced and sold at an amount that would allow sale prices to be at a level to allow amln average buyer to acquire, no subsidies. It is ridiculous that we funded Tesla and now that company makes a mint while the Federal government continues to put thousands of dollars in the pockets of Musk and others before him.

The government is in an ideal position to fund innovation but it has to assure it owns a piece of the results forever to fund new innovation. This would basically give the Federal government, and by extension the public, a stake in the company after loans are paid back and should be in perpetuity. We funded Tesla and other companies who needed the help and that is a good thing. Letting the money continue to flow from government to private companies, bad thing. And if the better mouse trap is available and reasonable in price, the world will beat a path to the door."

Sorry, I am not a fan of this idea. China and similar governments like this idea though.

Maybe a better idea would be for the gov. to be given a certain number of stock shares per $$ invested - to be put into a fund that under no circumstances can be touched or used or managed by politicians and the money can ONLY be used to pay down gov. debt by selling the shares on the open market in 3/5/10 year cycles.
Couple that with a balanced budget amendment and we might have something.

EV incentives that the gov. offers to purchasers is also a terrible idea - as the price of the vehicle goes up almost dollar for dollar the amount of the incentive.
Maybe a better tax incentive would be an amount of the price of a home charging station - and you get it whether you install a charger or not.

As Ronald Reagan said "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "

 

[pacofortacos]

No change in technology was required. Leaded fuel was simply cheaper and easier to patent, thus the most profitable route. Market forces chose the higher profit route, as they did not have to bare the costs of the consequences.

As Wildone state hardened valve seats were a necessity to be able to run unleaded gas, burnt exhaust valves were quite common after the switch.
Maybe not truly "technology" but an added cost and change in manufacturing.
Better valve material was still needed and added later.

 

[Docwagon1776]

As Wildone state hardened valve seats were a necessity to be able to run unleaded gas, burnt exhaust valves were quite common after the switch.
Maybe not truly "technology" but an added cost and change in manufacturing.
Better valve material was still needed and added later.

That's part and parcel to my point. No new technology was required and there was a profit incentive to adopt and continue the use of leaded gasoline.

 

[Docwagon1776]

It can be argued that trading leaded for unleaded did not result in a better idea, it simply transferred use to an alternative fuel that didn't impact catalytic converters.

Anything can be argued, but you'd have to be either completely unaware, or willfully ignorant, of the impact of leaded fuels in terms of lead poisoning, reduced IQs, etc. to take that position.

 

[pacofortacos]

Anything can be argued, but you'd have to be either completely unaware, or willfully ignorant, of the impact of leaded fuels in terms of lead poisoning, reduced IQs, etc. to take that position.

But was it really the leaded fuel causing the inner city reduced IQ's OR was it the leaded paint that was often found in those buildings? Young kids had a habit of eating flaking paint back in the day.

The poisoning of the cat converters by leaded gas is undeniable.

In the end, does our gov. lie to the people to get to the ends that they want - most certainly.

 

[Docwagon1776]

But was it really the leaded fuel causing the inner city reduced IQ's OR was it the leaded paint that was often found in those buildings? Young kids had a habit of eating flaking paint back in the day.

The poisoning of the cat converters by leaded gas is undeniable.

In the end, does our gov. lie to the people to get to the ends that they want - most certainly.

Two things can be true. Lead blood levels fell across the board, adults and children, once leaded fuel was no longer used. If you want to argue that higher lead levels in blood is just fine or that it was all some mass conspiracy to suppress the truth about leaded gas, you do you, it's not an argument worth spending time on for me.