Exhaust leak at the manifold

[JaimeZX]

I'll caveat this with "I haven't seen it yet."

As noted in previous posts, I know I have a small exhaust leak. Can't hear it at idle; can't find it with a rag stuffed in the tailpipe; but I know it's there. At 40+mph, with a little load on, I hear PFFT PFFT PFFT. You know...

Anyway, there's a Midas around the corner so I dropped it off; figured they could find it and give me an estimate.

So they're saying the leak is at the manifold. Parts are cheap, only $225 or so. Labor is gonna be the killer since all the bolts are rusted. Overall they quoted me like, $1100.

Usually I do all my own work, but in this case I have no idea. I replaced the cat-back exhaust on my Nissan about 15 years ago and had to drill a couple of bolts. That kind of put me off exhaust work...

Thoughts? Recommendations? Is $1100 crazy for this?

 

[Merc225hp]

DIY it not that hard at all. Just have to get past the rusted bolts thats all. You can get gaskets for the manifolds and or you can have the manifolds surfaced flat at a machine shop. Me I would install a set of "GOOD" stainless shorty headers.

 

[JaimeZX]

Would said headers match up correctly to the existing downpipes? I don't mind TRYING, but I'm afraid of spending eight hours and not even finishing one side...

Thinking about trying the "soak it in apple cider vinegar" technique of rust removal. Obviously I can't put it in a bucket, but I could wrap paper towels & saran wrap around the things and then keep them "wet" with vinegar for a few days...?

 

[Merc225hp]

Most shortys will bolt up the the factory DP, me I have had my Gibsons 301s on for 6+ years and they have held up great even through these winters. Install them re tq the bolts once and thats it with them, as for installing them yes four bolts are very much a pita to do. I think it did take me a full day to get them installed, but I had just had my lower back surgery done at that time.

Try anything you think will help, my bolts were rusted but they came out easy. 50/50 acetone and tranny fluid, this is about the best pen oil you can use.

 

[leadrofthepak]

imo $1100 with only $225ish in parts ($800+ in labor for 8 bolts?) is insane. I would do it myself. Treat the bolts to a few days of repeated penetrating oil doses (without driving it, if possible). You ARE going to break bolts, have the drill bits and taps ready to go. You will be much happier spending the money you save on quality header studs and quality headers. Your motor will thank you for them too

 

[Merc225hp]

The shop priced it out of reason so they did not have to deal with it, or they just figured the worst case scenario. I have seen shops do this lots, and yes I have done it as well. Give the person the worst case cost and hope it goes cheaper.

 

[JaimeZX]

The shop priced it out of reason so they did not have to deal with it, or they just figured the worst case scenario. I have seen shops do this lots, and yes I have done it as well. Give the person the worst case cost and hope it goes cheaper.

Hm. Yes, I had a driveway contractor do this to me as well, recently. Two companies quoted ~$12k, one quoted $30k. SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT BUSINESS.

imo $1100 with only $225ish in parts ($800+ in labor for 8 bolts?) is insane. I would do it myself. Treat the bolts to a few days of repeated penetrating oil doses (without driving it, if possible). You ARE going to break bolts, have the drill bits and taps ready to go. You will be much happier spending the money you save on quality header studs and quality headers. Your motor will thank you for them too

Yah - I was also kind of thinking that. Anyone know off-hand what size taps and drill bits? I'm sure I'll need more bits.

Most shortys will bolt up the the factory DP, me I have had my Gibsons 301s on for 6+ years and they have held up great even through these winters. Install them re tq the bolts once and thats it with them, as for installing them yes four bolts are very much a pita to do. I think it did take me a full day to get them installed, but I had just had my lower back surgery done at that time.

Looking at the Summit Racing ones, but I don't understand the difference between the 2" and 2½" versions. Think I'm gonna have to call and ask.

Try anything you think will help, my bolts were rusted but they came out easy. 50/50 acetone and tranny fluid, this is about the best pen oil you can use.

Also - man "acetone and ATF" scares the hell out of me, even having seen it recommended elsewhere. lol What'll they think of next? Combining the whitening power of bleach with the cleaning strength of ammonia?

Edit: Re - https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/2012/08/14/how_to_make_penetrating_oil.html

Looks like the most effective is "95% vegetable oil / 5% acetone" at about double the effectiveness of WD-40. Wow.

 

[Merc225hp]

Hm. Yes, I had a driveway contractor do this to me as well, recently. Two companies quoted ~$12k, one quoted $30k. SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT BUSINESS.


Yah - I was also kind of thinking that. Anyone know off-hand what size taps and drill bits? I'm sure I'll need more bits.

Looking at the Summit Racing ones, but I don't understand the difference between the 2" and 2½" versions. Think I'm gonna have to call and ask.


Also - man "acetone and ATF" scares the hell out of me, even having seen it recommended elsewhere. lol What'll they think of next? Combining the whitening power of bleach with the cleaning strength of ammonia?

Edit: Re - https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/2012/08/14/how_to_make_penetrating_oil.html

Looks like the most effective is "95% vegetable oil / 5% acetone" at about double the effectiveness of WD-40. Wow.

Bolt spec is SCREW AND WASHER, Hex Head, .312-18x3.125

WD-40 = Perfect water displacement on the 40th try, it was never meant to be used as an pen oil. They do now offer a pen oil in there product line up.

 

[JaimeZX]

Well, step one: I saw that an apple cider vinegar bath is magical at removing rust. Only problem... how do you bathe something mounted to the vehicle?

So, I wrapped the manifolds in paper towels and soaked 'em in vinegar. I figure I'll do that in the morning before work, afternoon when I get home, and then before bed. Probably not as good as a bath, but now through Thursday morning might get me something.

Then Thursday afternoon I'll start with the penetrating oil... hopefully the same regimen will get me some good results by Saturday morning. Assuming the headers get here by then. Otherwise it'll have to wait two weeks because we have plans for the following weekend already.

Gonna order these unless someone talks me off 'em quick:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g9045/overview/year/2001/make/dodge/model/ram-2500

 

[JaimeZX]

FOLLOW-UP (pics to follow when I fix my home computer.)
Spent six hours on Saturday doing the driver's side.

* Successfully removed two bolts cleanly
* Cut the head off one bolt
* Twisted the shaft off one bolt
* Successfully extracted two studs

This left me with three clean holes and three studs inconveniently broken off just inside the head.
When I say "just inside," I mean maybe 1-2mm in.

Looks like I'm going to have to get that head pulled and have someone drill the three studs out, since my attempt at drilling resulted in ZERO metal shavings after a good 30 seconds... Very frustrating. (Note - I didn't expect to drill the bolt in 30 seconds... but SOME evidence of progress would've been nice.)

So anyway, right now I have the header held on with three of six bolts, and a slightly worse exhaust leak than I had before (when I had four bolts.)

Did not have time to try the passenger's side yet. There's always the chance I could have better luck there...