Exhaust manifold bolt pattern?

[mopar_man72]

Do the 5.7 and 6.4 use the same bolt pattern for the exhaust manifold? I'm having issues getting some snapped bolts out of my passenger side head. The 3 on the back port all broke off 1/16" or so below the surface. I tried welding a nut on one and the weld bonded the head. I got 1 with an easy out, but when I went for the bottom one I couldn't center tap it. My bit got off center and I ended up drilling some of the threads trying to remove it. I'm only down maybe an 1/8",but I don't want to ruin the head going much further.

I saw a video where a mechanic used a drill guide made by Lisle to remove the bolts, but they only have one for the 5.7. Will this work on a 6.4 or are the bolts spaced differently?

 

[rzr6-4]

All the places I looked either had one or the other. If it worked for both I would think they would say that so I'm going to lean towards no.

 

[18CrewDually]

ProMAXX makes a kit for the 6.4

ProMAXX Dodge Ram 6.4L Hemi Exhaust Manifold Bolt Repair Prokit (PMXCD200PRO)

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[BenchTest]

I'm not a cool kid with a Hemi, so I'm gonna ask... Hemi exhaust bolts break often enough that multiple companies make a kit to address them? Yikes.

 

[18CrewDually]

I'm not a cool kid with a Hemi, so I'm gonna ask... Hemi exhaust bolts break often enough that multiple companies make a kit to address them? Yikes.

Yup, along with Fords too. Especially 5.4s. Sometimes from rust jacking.

 

[mopar_man72]

All the places I looked either had one or the other. If it worked for both I would think they would say that so I'm going to lean towards no.

I looked at a couple different web sites and the part numbers are the same for the exhaust manifold and the gaskets. Oddly enough none of them offer the driver's side manifold for a 6.4.

 

[Nathaniel Toews]

I just had super good experience with just welding blobs on them and turning them out with a vice grip for the ones that are lower than flush. Nut caused me problems but just did little tacks with my mig until it had an external blob and they spun right out with the vice grip...

 

[Hemi395]

Yup, along with Fords too. Especially 5.4s. Sometimes from rust jacking.

The Chevy 4.8/5.3/6.0 do it as well

 

[18CrewDually]

The Chevy 4.8/5.3/6.0 do it as well

Oh don't I know it. Last set i did was on a Hummer. East coast salt mostly to blame .

So far my 6.2 Denali never leaked. 100k+ problem free.

This really isn't a new problem. Back when I worked a fleet of Dodge 1 tons with 360s, they all at some point popped the heads off the rear bolts. That was on trucks from the 80s into the 90s.

I personally believe the problem is the bolts are too short. If you look at ford 6.0 diesel exhaust manifold bolts, they are real long and have spacer tubes that go on the bolt first. I've also worked on fleet trucks that were 6.0s and never had a manifold bolt get stuck or break.
Now, I see BD Diesel offers 5.7 Hemi manifolds that come with long bolts and tube spacers. Someone should try replacing the bolts with longer ones and spacers to see if the problem goes away.
I just don't have a Hemi available to experiment with or I would.

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[mopar_man72]

2am.......I was hunched in that wheel well till 2am trying to get that last bolt out! Gave up on it after breaking off a screw extractor in it and put things back together. Might try again after I get it inspected.

All that aside, I was able to use the Lisle drill plate. Only difference between engines is the 6.4 has a third bolt on the back port. I used the gasket and drilled it out. Biggest issue is clearance. I didn't have room to use the included drills. I had a right angle attachment on my impact driver and had to shorten some hex shanked bits to make them work.

 

[18CrewDually]

To gain more access I unbolt the engine mount and jack up the engine. This will lift and roll the engine up to give you more room. Also a 90° drill can be a life saver.

BTW, "Hunched in that wheel well". I feel the pain just reading it. Lol

 

[mopar_man72]

To gain more access I unbolt the engine mount and jack up the engine. This will lift and roll the engine up to give you more room. Also a 90° drill can be a life saver.

BTW, "Hunched in that wheel well". I feel the pain just reading it. Lol

I thought about jacking up the engine, but then I saw those hard lines coming from the radiator and didn't want to bend anything up. Also couldn't figure what part of the mount I could unbolt then get back together. I had an old Craftsman 90° drill but by the time I got it wedged in I didn't have room for a bit in it. I might get an M12 next time it's on sale.

 

[18CrewDually]

I thought about jacking up the engine, but then I saw those hard lines coming from the radiator and didn't want to bend anything up. Also couldn't figure what part of the mount I could unbolt then get back together. I had an old Craftsman 90° drill but by the time I got it wedged in I didn't have room for a bit in it. I might get an M12 next time it's on sale.

If all you needed was a little bit more room there's usually enough slack in the mount you can jack the engine with the mount still bolted and it will move just enough.

 

[Hagar1]

If you have repeated exhaust bolt breakage, take your old manifolds to a machine shop and get them planed because they are warped. I did this a few years ago and never had any further problem.

 

[7thday]

Just replaced one of mine and they now have a kit that includes 2 bars of metal that tie all the bolts together, suppose this is to help distribute the stress and help keep the bolts from breaking.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Yup, along with Fords too. Especially 5.4s. Sometimes from rust jacking.

In today's world of computers, one day heart surgery out patient, automated systems, self cleaning ovens, etc. One would think a company could and would manufacture more durable bolts. Think about this: There are only 6 to 8 bolts holding the engine to the transmission. Each of these driveline pieces are VERY heavy and exhibit LOTS of loads under power while in operating state.

Conglomerately, those bolts, weighing, oh, maybe a pound? Do a heck of a job! I wonder if ARP sells something more permanent for this problem.

 

[Wild one]

In today's world of computers, one day heart surgery out patient, automated systems, self cleaning ovens, etc. One would think a company could and would manufacture more durable bolts. Think about this: There are only 6 to 8 bolts holding the engine to the transmission. Each of these driveline pieces are VERY heavy and exhibit LOTS of loads under power while in operating state.

Conglomerately, those bolts, weighing, oh, maybe a pound? Do a heck of a job! I wonder if ARP sells something more permanent for this problem.

The transmission bolts work in shear mode,more then they do in stretch mode,and generally it takes more force to shear a bolt,then it does to stretch one to the breaking point. Broken manifolds / bolts is nothing new,and isn't really specific to just the Hemi. Our GM company vehicles are lucky to make it to 80,000 miles before they need the manifolds planed and new bolts installed,then shortly after that,they'll seize the oil pump and take the engine out

 

[jmc921]

Apparently, for the 5th gen, the bolts have been made stronger so now the issue is cracked manifolds but that’s an easier fix than extracting broken bolts. I just had the passenger side done by the dealer and they replaced the manifold as well I assume to address the potential warpage problem. Total was $700 which, considering the issues that can arise as outlined in this thread, seems pretty reasonable.

 

[jr27236]

Just did this repair, drilling on the head is the riskiest thing you can do as you learned. Just as @Nathaniel Toews said, weld blobs with a MiG welder to the broken stud and build it out and then you can grab it with a vice grip and take you time and you'll get it out. patience is key or it will cost you. The picture is of what I did. See my thread as I have tons of pictures on there of the progress. Resurface them also or you'll be doing the repair in the future