Extended CV's when using a diff drop?

[ginandtonic]

Hey all,

My truck is in the shop right now to get a popping noise looked at. It comes from the front driverside but the mechanic is saying the CV axle is popping off the passenger side differential intermediate shaft. I have the 4" rough country lift with the diff drop so the CV axles angles are identical to stock. They're saying I need extended axles that are made for lifted trucks, but this just isn't computing with me. Can anyone chime in on this? Unfortunately, I have a road trip with the family planned for Sunday and they're saying it shouldn't be driven at all.

This same mechanic put a new diff from a 2018 in it last time when I got the CV's replaced (about 2 months ago). Maybe the diff housing for the 2018 is shorter than the 2014? I have no idea.

Any thoughts?

 

[DILLIGAF]

Might want to do some research on the POS extended axles... lol.

And RC lifts are such bad quality and are known to bust front diffs so much so that real suspension shop wont even install them on RAMs.

 

[ginandtonic]

Haha as in all the reviews of them failing prematurely? Even though its RC, am I wrong in thinking it doesn't need longer axles since the angle is the same as stock? they're pretty dang level!

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Haha as in all the reviews of them failing prematurely? Even though its RC, am I wrong in thinking it doesn't need longer axles since the angle is the same as stock? they're pretty dang level!

RC has terrible geometry unfortunately you’ll keep feeding your truck front diffs. Yes the theory of them being in the same location as stock is there but an 1/8” at the end of the axle could be 1/2” at the other end of it. Personally I give guy’s options when they bring us their RC lifts after being at multiple places. And it all comes down to money and are you keeping the truck

 

[Wild one]

Look around for a spacer that'll fit over the axle splines at the hub,so not as much of the axle protrudes into the hub assembly,essentially lengthening your stock CV's.You got an easy 1/2" of axle to work with,might be enough to keep your CV's together

 

[ginandtonic]

RC has terrible geometry unfortunately you’ll keep feeding your truck front diffs. Yes the theory of them being in the same location as stock is there but an 1/8” at the end of the axle could be 1/2” at the other end of it. Personally I give guy’s options when they bring us their RC lifts after being at multiple places. And it all comes down to money and are you keeping the truck

That makes sense. Is it a matter of their bracket not dropping the diff directly downwards? Like does it mess up the alignment or position under the truck? If so maybe I could talk to Zone and pick up their diff drop brackets.

Look around for a spacer that'll fit over the axle splines at the hub,so not as much of the axle protrudes into the hub assembly,essentially lengthening your stock CV's.You got an easy 1/2" of axle to work with,might be enough to keep your CV's together

This seems to make a lot of sense! you're right that theres a good chunk of threads sticking out.

 

[ginandtonic]

Took it for a nice early morning drive to get coffee and now I'm extra confused. The pop is very clearly coming from the front drivers side.. it's not even a matter of thinking that its there, its 100% the driverside... I'm gonna run through all the bolts today and make sure everythings still tight. The popping sound did get worse last week when I hit a pot hole on my drivers side at about 70kph, so maybe the new 5100's are shot already?

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Took it for a nice early morning drive to get coffee and now I'm extra confused. The pop is very clearly coming from the front drivers side.. it's not even a matter of thinking that its there, its 100% the driverside... I'm gonna run through all the bolts today and make sure everythings still tight. The popping sound did get worse last week when I hit a pot hole on my drivers side at about 70kph, so maybe the new 5100's are shot already?

don’t take this the wrong was but any professional willing to install a RC lift kit is most likely the same ones that have never held a torque wrench. If you post pictures of the suspension components we can help you diagnose things. I don’t enjoy bashing products or workmanship I’m just speaking from experience

 

[mrack]

Put the washer for the 5100s on the wrong side of the upper strut bushing perhaps? Did you install them yourself or take it to a shop? Check your sway links too, those will pop if they're loose or the ball joint is wore out

 

[ginandtonic]

don’t take this the wrong was but any professional willing to install a RC lift kit is most likely the same ones that have never held a torque wrench. If you post pictures of the suspension components we can help you diagnose things. I don’t enjoy bashing products or workmanship I’m just speaking from experience

no offense taken! I bought the truck with the RC kit already installed. I'm slowly working my way through rebuilding it and have done the end links front and back, and swapped out the stock shocks for 5100's in the front and Icon 2.0's in the back. The intent is to eventually replace everything but the RC bracket, although that may get swapped out for a zone too once I have some clarification on how the RC bracket misaligns the diff.

Put the washer for the 5100s on the wrong side of the upper strut bushing perhaps? Did you install them yourself or take it to a shop? Check your sway links too, those will pop if they're loose or the ball joint is wore out

The shop put the 5100's in November so I can't say! Is this something that would cause a pop, and a pop that progressively gotten worse? The links are brand new and the bushings look good. Thanks!

 

[ginandtonic]

Not the greatest photos but they're the best I have right now before I run out the door. They're excerpts from a few videos I took yesterday of the suspension reacting to me turning the wheel back and forth and bounce the truck. I should also note that the tie rod ends are mevotech TTX's with about 3k on them and didn't show any signs of play. Maybe its the drivers inner tie rod though? I jacked it up and pulled back and forth at 9 + 3 and there was very minimal movement.

I've always found it strange how my CV's kind of angle up (the video angle makes it look worse than it is). The hub is about 1 1/2" higher than the diff, but I figured this isn't an issue since guys with a 2" level have more of an angle than this in the opposite direction.

 

[olyelr]

Yes, that is odd that the shafts slope upward…never seen that before. Its usually level or the opposite…sloping down from the diff.

And yes, if the bils wernt installed correctly they will certainly make noise.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

While in park engine running. Have someone turn the steering wheel left and right while looking at the front suspension to see if anything is moving. Then shut it off and physically grab everything and try to move it my hand.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

no offense taken! I bought the truck with the RC kit already installed. I'm slowly working my way through rebuilding it and have done the end links front and back, and swapped out the stock shocks for 5100's in the front and Icon 2.0's in the back. The intent is to eventually replace everything but the RC bracket, although that may get swapped out for a zone too once I have some clarification on how the RC bracket misaligns the diff.

The shop put the 5100's in November so I can't say! Is this something that would cause a pop, and a pop that progressively gotten worse? The links are brand new and the bushings look good. Thanks!

I’ve never wasted my time comparing the causes or where the geometry is actually off. I see their kits regularly with all the front end components prematurely worn out and the front differential smoked. Normally the customers invoice is already higher than average diagnosing the failed components. No other bracket lifts have the consistent failures like the RC’s do. I’ve seen stock Rams smoke the intermediate shafts at 30-40k because of the poor design from Ram so there are definitely a lot of variables to what could be. But 100% when you see the same brand with the same issues show up over and over there is only 1 common denominator.

 

[ginandtonic]

While in park engine running. Have someone turn the steering wheel left and right while looking at the front suspension to see if anything is moving. Then shut it off and physically grab everything and try to move it my hand.

Ya I did this but recorded a bunch of 4k videos once I had good lighting, turning full cycle back and forth, then wiggling in the middle, but everything seems tight. I lifted it up and pulled at the wheel and theres only the slghtest play in the steering. the steering feels tight on the road but I do get a bit of a pop feeling in the wheel when I initiate a turn left. I also drove around a roundabout a few times slowly listening for the pop and it only happens when I first turn the wheel, not repeatedly while driving left. Pretty puzzled! Part of me just wants to break the ice and get all new control arms up front (Mevotecch TTX's) along with some Fox 2.5's. I was thinking maybe it's a UCA bushing but visually they all look normal.. as normal as can be for a 10 year old truck!

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Ya I did this but recorded a bunch of 4k videos once I had good lighting, turning full cycle back and forth, then wiggling in the middle, but everything seems tight. I lifted it up and pulled at the wheel and theres only the slghtest play in the steering. the steering feels tight on the road but I do get a bit of a pop feeling in the wheel when I initiate a turn left. I also drove around a roundabout a few times slowly listening for the pop and it only happens when I first turn the wheel, not repeatedly while driving left. Pretty puzzled! Part of me just wants to break the ice and get all new control arms up front (Mevotecch TTX's) along with some Fox 2.5's. I was thinking maybe it's a UCA bushing but visually they all look normal.. as normal as can be for a 10 year old truck!

The oil filters are strategically placed to dump used oil all over the steering rack bushing on the passenger side to wear them out faster. We see a lot that are often diagnosed as an inner tie rod. Don’t just start throwing parts at the thing. Have friends look at it. Take it to a shop that has clean floors and looks overall clean and organized that’s one of the things I look for as if they can take a few extra minutes keeping their work area Tighty then they most likely will take 3 extra seconds to find what’s actually wrong with your truck

 

[ginandtonic]

The oil filters are strategically placed to dump used oil all over the steering rack bushing on the passenger side to wear them out faster. We see a lot that are often diagnosed as an inner tie rod. Don’t just start throwing parts at the thing. Have friends look at it. Take it to a shop that has clean floors and looks overall clean and organized that’s one of the things I look for as if they can take a few extra minutes keeping their work area Tighty then they most likely will take 3 extra seconds to find what’s actually wrong with your truck

Good call! I appreciate the advice, I'll take a look for that this weekend and it's going into a different shop in a couple weeks to get looked at so fingers crossed!

As for throwing parts at the thing... I hate spending money but shopping therapy when it comes to truck parts is truly a thing for me haha. I'm also ultra-OCD when it comes to any sort of unnecessary vibration or rattle so I'm willing to spend a little more for the peace of mind that I can throw it through some rough roads and everything under me is fresh and working well!

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Good call! I appreciate the advice, I'll take a look for that this weekend and it's going into a different shop in a couple weeks to get looked at so fingers crossed!

As for throwing parts at the thing... I hate spending money but shopping therapy when it comes to truck parts is truly a thing for me haha. I'm also ultra-OCD when it comes to any sort of unnecessary vibration or rattle so I'm willing to spend a little more for the peace of mind that I can throw it through some rough roads and everything under me is fresh and working well!

I have a Jeep Rubicon in my shop right now that drove fine until it went to an exhaust shop. “Imagine that” fast forward 15+ shops it makes it to me with $4k in brand new front end parts and a new steering box. And still drives like a blind turtle. So now I have to reverse engineer why every shop he went to sold him something else.

Sometimes firing new parts makes it harder to diagnose something simple. Then when it’s fixed dump a BDS lift under that truck.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Anyone that understands these steering systems the track bar and drag link should run parallel. How this went through multiple “Jeep specialists shops” like this and just sold more stuff makes zero sense. But my job is to make it ride like a Jeep that has 30k on it not figure out why people are dumb

 

[olyelr]

Anyone that understands these steering systems the track bar and drag link should run parallel. How this went through multiple “Jeep specialists shops” like this and just sold more stuff makes zero sense. But my job is to make it ride like a Jeep that has 30k on it not figure out why people are dumb

I have a Jeep Rubicon in my shop right now that drove fine until it went to an exhaust shop. “Imagine that” fast forward 15+ shops it makes it to me with $4k in brand new front end parts and a new steering box. And still drives like a blind turtle. So now I have to reverse engineer why every shop he went to sold him something else.
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Sometimes firing new parts makes it harder to diagnose something simple. Then when it’s fixed dump a BDS lift under that truck.

Started driving like **** when it left the exhaust shop? Did you figure out what was wrong?

Yes…definitely want the track bar and drag link parallel. Sometimes its tricky to “see” it because the track bars typically have bends in them. But yea, the straight lines between the two bolts should be parallel (which you obviously know haaaa). Did the lift kit on it have a drop pitman arm but no lowered track bar frame mount?