Hellcat Lifters-Better Quality?

[James OBrien]

Hey folks,

Just wondering, as I'm reading through the posts about rollers/lifters eating cams, does anyone know if the hellcat lifters are upgraded/better quality than our stock lifters? I assume they are. I read something about the oil pin holes being bigger or the pins for the rollers themselves are better, just wondering. I already did an upgrade on mine and put them in as Jay Greene recommended them, just wanted to know if anyone here knew what the differences were in quality and hopefully longevity.

 

[buddy guy]

following for more info

 

[DILLIGAF]

following this. Im about to do mine

 

[500rider86]

I wonder myself if it’s an engine design issue. The cam lifters are failing, is it due to lack of oil reaching them?

 

[Tim Garceau]

Hopefully someone who has a side by side from upgrading will chime in.

I believe the needle bearing diameter is larger and the lifter has more hydraulic charge for maintaining roller pressure besides the obvious non-mds.

Edit-the roller axle is also bigger diameter

 

[James OBrien]

That's something... I'm kicking myself for not doing a side by side when I swapped mine.

 

[chrisbh17]

For some reason I wanted to say they have more "leg" material supporting the sides of the rollers, but I cant remember where I saw the pic.

Also, Hellcats dont have MDS, correct? So they are, technically, inherently better just from less moving parts.

 

[HammerHead]

Reach out to Frostbite Ram on YouTube. He has a video series of the Hellcat lifter install.

 

[Stelios]

Pretty sure hellcat lifters and non mds 5.7 lifters are the same part number. The problem with the cam wearing is from the mds system parts, non-mds engines from Dodge are not having the same issue that I'm aware of.

 

[DILLIGAF]

 

[indept]

Pretty sure hellcat lifters and non mds 5.7 lifters are the same part number. The problem with the cam wearing is from the mds system parts, non-mds engines from Dodge are not having the same issue that I'm aware of.

Are you sure about the failures, I recall many times on this forum reading that the non MDS lifters fail moreso than the MDS in the MDS equipped 5.7l.

 

[buddy guy]

Pretty sure hellcat lifters and non mds 5.7 lifters are the same part number. The problem with the cam wearing is from the mds system parts, non-mds engines from Dodge are not having the same issue that I'm aware of.

not proven. i'm far more inclined to believe that its a result of the light weight oil that FCA wants us to run in engines with MDS lifters. If under warranty I had the option to run a heavier weight, I would.

 

[James OBrien]

Good discussion, thanks all for contributing! Still looking for more proof of the differences, will look at the youtube vid! I thought the hellcat lifters were a different part number than the standard non-mds lifters.

 

[chrisbh17]

not proven. i'm far more inclined to believe that its a result of the light weight oil that FCA wants us to run in engines with MDS lifters. If under warranty I had the option to run a heavier weight, I would.

I agree with this, also adding shoddy needle bearings and lack of support around them as a possible cause.

Take shoddy needle bearings, lighter oil that doesnt "stick" to things very well, add in some lack of flow at low RPMs (high idle time engines seem notorious for the cam/lifter issue) and you get needle bearings that freeze up, a roller that doesn't roll and then a cam that gets gouged because of it.

I know for sure that aftermarket lifters provide more outer casing surrounding the needle bearings, in an effort to make sure they stay together better.

 

[buddy guy]

Had a motorbike that was known by many users to not charge the battery or pump enough oil at 900 rpm idle. hard to believe engineers and manufacturers would design something that dumb that could damage engines. Turning the idle up to 1000 to 1100 rpm was enough to fix both problems. So why not set it high enough from the factory? because it sounded "cooler" at 900 rpm.

 

[Hemi395]

Had a motorbike that was known by many users to not charge the battery or pump enough oil at 900 rpm idle. hard to believe engineers and manufacturers would design something that dumb that could damage engines. Turning the idle up to 1000 to 1100 rpm was enough to fix both problems. So why not set it high enough from the factory? because it sounded "cooler" at 900 rpm.

They set the idle low on these trucks for CAFE. It gets .001% better fuel economy at 500rpm than at 650rpm. I had my custom tune set with a 650rpm idle and my oil pressure at idle went from high 30s to the high 40s. That's a pretty big improvement for 150rpm difference. That's important for lifter lubrication since they are one of the last things to get oil.

 

[James OBrien]

They set the idle low on these trucks for CAFE. It gets .001% better fuel economy at 500rpm than at 650rpm. I had my custom tune set with a 650rpm idle and my oil pressure at idle went from high 30s to the high 40s. That's a pretty big improvement for 150rpm difference. That's important for lifter lubrication since they are one of the last things to get oil.

That's interesting... I may get that updated in my tune when I get the supercharger installed.

 

[Robert Dubois]

Does any one have pert numbers for the hellcat lifters? Also will they work on a 2011 5.7?

 

[huntergreen]

They set the idle low on these trucks for CAFE. It gets .001% better fuel economy at 500rpm than at 650rpm. I had my custom tune set with a 650rpm idle and my oil pressure at idle went from high 30s to the high 40s. That's a pretty big improvement for 150rpm difference. That's important for lifter lubrication since they are one of the last things to get oil.

I know this is older, but my 16 hemi idles at 650 rpm at idle. Came this way from the factory.

 

[chrisbh17]

Ill have to dig it up again btu forever ago I found an Excel spreadsheet that listed all possible PCM software versions, including "pre release", "fleet" and "police" vehicles.

Some of the files were named with a number and RPM in the filename, I assumed it was PCM s/w with different idle RPMs. They had like 550, 650, 780, etc.

I agree bumping the idle just a tiny bit could yield great results, but CAFE is a thing, so......