New Owner Towing Question

[nighthawk87]

That's one reason I am confused. The door sticker says payload should not exceed 2095 lbs. But when I go to the Dodge Ram website and enter my VIN number, I get 2450 as max payload. Which do I believe?

The ram website lists the maximum payload if PROPERLY EQUIPPED. it stands to reason that any options installed on a vehicle will add weight, which comes off the rated max GVWR of the pickup. Since ram cannot make a table that explains all possible variables, they make the most general milestones available on the tables with respect to cab and drivetrain.

With that said, this is why you have a sticker. It’s based off the the weight of the truck as scaled after built, then subtract from the GVWR - which for a 2500 is always 10k pounds. The 10k number may be arbitrary based on truck class, but nonetheless, it is the RATING OF THE TRUCK. If you put more than the stickers weight in your truck you will be over 10k pounds - and over its rating.

Does that mean it’s unsafe, no. But just like going 75 in a 65 mph zone may not be unsafe, it’s still going over the limit. The risk, just like speeding, is up to you on how much you want to take.

The other ratings on the 2500 like axles, Tire’s, frame, etc...are not be worried about most of the time.


My 2017 ram 2500 crew cab CTD TRADESMAN has a sticker of 2270 to give you an idea of what those fancy bighorn options cost you in terms of payload.


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[nighthawk87]

I know these HD trucks very well. You are well within your weight limits. I’ve hauled these campers from the mfg to the dealers for years. They are very particular about what the limits of the tow vehicle is before they let the trailer leave with a delivery driver. All of their leased on trucks must be 2500 or better. They must be 7 years old or newer. I had 2 trucks leased on both were 2015 6.7CTD C/C longbed 4x4 with gooseneck and 5th wheel setups and aux fuel tank that carried an extra 75 gallons of fuel.
So I know you have a very capable truck.


I Love my 18 Ram 2500HD 4x4 CC
Blue Streak Pearl off-road

Wrong. He will likely not be within his limits (GVWR namely). Will the truck ha doe it fine. Probably. But,no, it’s not likely rated for it. Nobody really
Knows until it’s scaled, it my money is on it being overweight with that trailer when ready for camping.


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[McBroom]

Wrong. He will likely not be within his limits (GVWR namely). Will the truck ha doe it fine. Probably. But,no, it’s not likely rated for it. Nobody really
Knows until it’s scaled, it my money is on it being overweight with that trailer when ready for camping.


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OP hasn’t given any info on the trailer other than it’s a 5th wheel.
He hasn’t told us anything about his personal experience pulling trailers.
So you can’t really say no on my post. I ask that you reread what I’ve said. I will not get into an argument with you as we follow each other and both of us have experience.
Now as I stated I had 2 trucks that were leased to a mfg. I have since retired but I haven’t lost any knowledge on trucks,being a Marine or anything else. No I’m not Mr.Knowitall but I’m pretty ****** smart.
P.S. I owned 6- 18 wheelers too. All were oversize/overweight units. I know my **** when it comes to trucks


I Love my 18 Ram 2500HD 4x4 CC
Blue Streak Pearl off-road

 

[nighthawk87]

OP hasn’t given any info on the trailer other than it’s a 5th wheel.
He hasn’t told us anything about his personal experience pulling trailers.
So you can’t really say no on my post. I ask that you reread what I’ve said. I will not get into an argument with you as we follow each other and both of us have experience.
Now as I stated I had 2 trucks that were leased to a mfg. I have since retired but I haven’t lost any knowledge on trucks,being a Marine or anything else. No I’m not Mr.Knowitall but I’m pretty ****** smart.
P.S. I owned 6- 18 wheelers too. All were oversize/overweight units. I know my **** when it comes to trucks


I Love my 18 Ram 2500HD 4x4 CC
Blue Streak Pearl off-road

No worries man, I’m a simple person so please don’t take my direct responses personally. You have a lot of respect on this forum and I enjoy all your posts.

I was simply basing it off his listed tongue weight in the first post of 1941 dry. With a payload of, I think he said 2091 pounds, that leaves only 150 pounds left with that unloaded trailer hooked up to his truck. He COULD be under limits if he either doesn’t put anything in the trailer or truck, the specs are wrong on the trailer, he’s removed items from his vehicle like seats/radio/etc...

I agree he’ll be safe with that trailer. I’d do it. However, the statement of him being under his limits is what I’m saying is incorrect. It just by definition of the term limits that he is over.

The debate over how over limits created addition liability or risk with the law is what folks debate. The o my way to be for sure good is to stay within ratings. Just like driving, only way to be with no risk is to obey the speed limit- and who does that all the time.


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[mtofell]

What is the significance of staying under 10000 # GVWR ? Are you saying that the 2500 has more actual payload than noted?
Again, just trying to wrap my head around the numbers and concept and not start an argument one way or the other.

This subject has been absolutely beat to death here and throughout RV message boards so rather than reinventing the wheel do a bit of searching and you will find A TON of threads of people arguing about payload vs axle ratings. I tend to be in the camp of watching axle and tire ratings.

Keep in mind a 2500 is the EXACT same truck as a 3500 with the exception of some rear suspension that can easily be made up for with air bags or similar. The GVWR on the 3500 SRW Ram is 11,700#. Again, the main thing to watch from a safety standpoint is the tire and axle ratings.

2500 diesel trucks have relatively low payload because the engine is heavier so it eats up payload (as does any other option added). A stripped down 4X2 gas engine truck will have the highest payload rating.

Ironically, my 2500 gasser has 3000# of payload. The difference between yours and mine is the added weight of your engine. Of course, your diesel will out pull me all day long.

Keep in mind with towing there are two things to remember - how much a truck can carry and how much it can pull.

 

[PSAMAN]

OP:
What are the specifics of the trailer that’s the 1 thing we must know in order to really help you out. The truck itself is one thing but to get to the meat n taters of this thread let’s know more about the trailer. Please OP


I Love my 18 Ram 2500HD 4x4 CC
Blue Streak Pearl off-road

The 5'er we are wanting is a Wildcat 35WB. Empty weight is 11862 lbs with a payload of 2100 lbs. Hitch weight listed is 1941lbs. If relevant, length is 40'. Thanks a bunch for your help. Also, didn't mention, but our new 2500 is a short bed.
I have pulled a 30 foot travel trailer for 8 years or so. This will be our first 5th wheel.

 

[nighthawk87]

The 5'er we are wanting is a Wildcat 35WB. Empty weight is 11862 lbs with a payload of 2100 lbs. Hitch weight listed is 1941lbs. If relevant, length is 40'. Thanks a bunch for your help. Also, didn't mention, but our new 2500 is a short bed.
I have pulled a 30 foot travel trailer for 8 years or so. This will be our first 5th wheel.

If your pin weight is 1941, just subtract that from your payload sticker. Anything over that is more of a question as to how much can I overdo my truck and still be safe.

Only you can make that decision as nobody will back up anything more than what it’s rated for.

If you do it I’d put airbags on and test it out before buying it.


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[PSAMAN]

If your pin weight is 1941, just subtract that from your payload sticker. Anything over that is more of a question as to how much can I overdo my truck and still be safe.

Only you can make that decision as nobody will back up anything more than what it’s rated for.

If you do it I’d put airbags on and test it out before buying it.


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If that's the case , then 1941# subtracted from 2093# payload only leaves me 154#; barely enough for the driver and nothing else/

 

[PSAMAN]

This subject has been absolutely beat to death here and throughout RV message boards so rather than reinventing the wheel do a bit of searching and you will find A TON of threads of people arguing about payload vs axle ratings. I tend to be in the camp of watching axle and tire ratings.

Keep in mind a 2500 is the EXACT same truck as a 3500 with the exception of some rear suspension that can easily be made up for with air bags or similar. The GVWR on the 3500 SRW Ram is 11,700#. Again, the main thing to watch from a safety standpoint is the tire and axle ratings.

2500 diesel trucks have relatively low payload because the engine is heavier so it eats up payload (as does any other option added). A stripped down 4X2 gas engine truck will have the highest payload rating.

Ironically, my 2500 gasser has 3000# of payload. The difference between yours and mine is the added weight of your engine. Of course, your diesel will out pull me all day long.

Keep in mind with towing there are two things to remember - how much a truck can carry and how much it can pull.

I see airbags mentioned elsewhere, but airbags won't increase my payload, just height if I understand correctly. Ultimately, I just wanted t know if I'd be safe and I know answers and opinions vary.

 

[22hemi13]

If that's the case , then 1941# subtracted from 2093# payload only leaves me 154#; barely enough for the driver and nothing else/

Which is why this is a hot topic. The truck without a doubt will handle it. Going over a bit is your truck going to fall apart? Highly doubtful. Are you going to get nabbed by the police? Very unlikely. Personally i’d hook it up and see how much she squats. And then weigh it out and see what it looks like. There are slider 5th hitches that will help also. Yes that trailer is at the top end of what your truck will pull so you can decide. Smaller trailer. Bigger truck. Or buy it and pull it. You got 3 choices lol

 

[PSAMAN]

Which is why this is a hot topic. The truck without a doubt will handle it. Going over a bit is your truck going to fall apart? Highly doubtful. Are you going to get nabbed by the police? Very unlikely. Personally i’d hook it up and see how much she squats. And then weigh it out and see what it looks like. There are slider 5th hitches that will help also. Yes that trailer is at the top end of what your truck will pull so you can decide. Smaller trailer. Bigger truck. Or buy it and pull it. You got 3 choices lol

We don't have the trailer yet, it's just what we want. Thanks for the input. BTW, we are in Corpus; would love to move up your way.

 

[22hemi13]

We don't have the trailer yet, it's just what we want. Thanks for the input. BTW, we are in Corpus; would love to move up your way.

Well good luck deciding. It’s not too bad up here. I spend more on wine than I should but what am I to do lol.

 

[mtofell]

I see airbags mentioned elsewhere, but airbags won't increase my payload, just height if I understand correctly. Ultimately, I just wanted t know if I'd be safe and I know answers and opinions vary.

Correct - they won't change your payload rating as nothing changes the sticker on the door. Will they effectively increase the ability of the truck to carry a load in the bed without sagging? Absolutely. Will your truck then have the same ability as a 3500 truck? Physically yes. The door sticker is the only difference.

My 2500 with airbags will sag less than a stock 3500 with the same load. I can fill my bags to 90spi and it's like replacing the springs with blocks of concrete. When I set my 5th wheel onto the hitch it's probably around 2200# of pin weight. I get about 1.5" of sag with the bags at 30#. I could probably reduce that down to less than 1/2" if I cared. I've found the ride is best with the bags set there.

For me with my 3000# payload I'm right at the 10,000# GVWR but in your situation I personally would have no problem with the setup you propose as long as you get some stiffer springs or bags for the rear. I'd never try it with my gasser though because I can't pull the weight. This is the irony of my truck having a higher payload. It can carry the weight but not pull it.

Again, tires and axle weight are of the utmost importance IMO. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet but usually these threads are full of people who's neighbor's uncle's hairdresser's son's soccer coach's brother-in-law is serving a life sentence in prison for exceeding his GVWR

 

[nighthawk87]

If that's the case , then 1941# subtracted from 2093# payload only leaves me 154#; barely enough for the driver and nothing else/

I’m just the messenger....it’s upsetting for sure. Again, the truck could handle it most likely. I’d get airbags. Keep in mind, there is a risk though that only you can decide if it’s too much or not.


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[OC455]

I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet but usually these threads are full of people who's neighbor's uncle's hairdresser's son's soccer coach's brother-in-law is serving a life sentence in prison for exceeding his GVWR

LMAO

 

[Riccochet]

I would say that trailer is pushing or exceeding the "legal" weight limit of that truck. Can you exceed the legal limit? Sure. Will it be safe? Most likely. But I'd guess that the pin weight on that trailer will be in the 2500# range once loaded for camping. Then you have to take in to considering that the occupants of the vehicle, and any gear put in the vehicle, are going to further add to the payload. So, you'd be looking at around 3000#'s worth of payload in a truck legally rated for 2095#'s.

You'd know your true numbers by hitting a scale, but by that point you are pretty much SOL if you are 1000#'s over weight.

Again, towing within your legal limit and safe limit is the different between factual numbers and personal opinion.

 

[GsRAM]

What all the others have said. Your pushing 14k gvwr with that rig and 40` is a very long trailer. My opinion is your in at least one ton srw territory, perhaps drw. Can your 2500 do it? Probably if you add air bags. I see lots of folks towing huge 5vers with 2500 series trucks. Should you? That's personal preference. You will be well over your payload rating, loaded trailer weight. I'd bet 1941 is dry pin weight. I bet loaded you'll be 2500+ closer to 3k before you account for any passengers and Cargo in the truck. Personally I would not. I'd have at minimum 3500 srw for that rig, possibly drw. A 40' trailer is a huge sail behind you and the added stability of drw would be helpful.

Even if I had 4.40 gears I'd have some pause hooking my truck up to that monster, but I like more margin than most. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Aelwulf]

Might want to check as well to see if the tongue weight on the trailer is empty or assuming that 2100 cargo rating is being used to max. I'd hope the latter, but always good to check. If it's not add 100-200 pounds. Plus add the weight of the 5th wheel hitch, which aren't generally light. Then occupants, anything more in the truck. Might be looking at as much as 1,000 pounds or more over payload. Truck would probably handle it, but that's starting to get a bit beyond the 'couple hundred over' reasoning.

I've seen some 5th wheels I've really liked, and even though they were 'lite' models the truck could tow the payload went over with realistic scenarios. Stinks sometimes but might be good to keep trailer shopping. In the end however it's up to you.