New S&B and catch can MPG went down?

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

cgeorgemo

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Posts
1,647
Reaction score
530
Location
Joplin, MO
Ram Year
2014
Engine
3.6 Pentastar
How do you account for the gains in performance the vararam or s&b intake put out?


Marketing.

It boggles my mind that people think Ram would spend literally millions of dollars engineering things like active radiator shutters, EPAS, MDS, and coolant lines that run to the transmission to eek out tiny gains in MPG and performance. And they wouldn't just slap a new CAI on the truck instead if they were actually worth it.
They make the truck sound meaner.
IF that floats your boat then have fun but seriously there are huge financial incentives for the manufacturers to have the best MPG and the best power. They don't waste their money on CAI for a reason.


Sent from Skynet terminal 142a5
 

loveracing1988

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Posts
3,505
Reaction score
913
Location
Clarkston, MI
Ram Year
2020
Engine
6.7 Cummins
Marketing.

It boggles my mind that people think Ram would spend literally millions of dollars engineering things like active radiator shutters, EPAS, MDS, and coolant lines that run to the transmission to eek out tiny gains in MPG and performance. And they wouldn't just slap a new CAI on the truck instead if they were actually worth it.
They make the truck sound meaner.
IF that floats your boat then have fun but seriously there are huge financial incentives for the manufacturers to have the best MPG and the best power. They don't waste their money on CAI for a reason.


Sent from Skynet terminal 142a5

Ok, you keep thinking that. K&n sure, that is just marketing. But there have been multiple people me included who have picked up real world gains with the vararam intake, whether it be track slips or just racing a friend they do work.
 

Andrew09HEMI

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Posts
812
Reaction score
263
Ram Year
2014
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Yea, so my k&n marketing scheme didnt bring my MPG up at all must have been my imagination!!! The gains are minimal and should not be expected, I agree but they are there... What I cant believe is not ONE person asked him if he unhooked his battery for his computer to reset itself with the CAI
 

gsw_03

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2014
Posts
82
Reaction score
10
Location
DFW
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7 Hemi
The beauty of this topic is that we don't all have to agree. Those who believe they work will continue buying them, and those who don't will not. They're low $ mods, and at the very least they make the engine bay look a little prettier. Much like the catch can, the general consensus seems to be that "it probably does somethin'."
 

Oilbelcher

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Posts
188
Reaction score
29
Ram Year
2014 Ram 1500 4x4 Laramie Limited Diesel
Engine
Diesel 3.0
I just came back from getting my oil change at my local dealer. It was end of day, I was last vehicle, so I chatted with all the techs as they stood around the truck. Everyone one if them agreed that a CAI will only produce launder intake noise. They all had real live examples, and the one senior tech explained how the computer self adjusts to ensure only the desired amount of air flows, regardless of what type of filter you have. For stock computers and stock engine components, modern computer controlled engines limit air flow. He said he sees a lot of disappointed people who have spent $500 on a CAI and don't see any performer gains (on stock engine). So no, I don't believe a varam or S&b will give better MPG. If I mod my ECM computer along with other performance mods, and I go past the built in headroom in a stock box, then I will be quick to put a CAI back on my vehicles. I have used in the past, but my cars are now almost completely stock.
 

Oilbelcher

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Posts
188
Reaction score
29
Ram Year
2014 Ram 1500 4x4 Laramie Limited Diesel
Engine
Diesel 3.0
Good comment above that don't have to agree. Honestly, I could care less what people buy. I have a lot of experience, and ask many questions while ensuring the advice I receive is from those with no financial interest. The techs at the dealer would have gladly taken $100+ per hour to put a CAI intake on but they universally agreed to spend my money elsewhere.

If we are honest and observant, forums operate on funding from advertising. I have witnessed how sine companies place sales people online to follow forums, and some sales people with operate as just an average Joe. I am just one voice, and you shouldn't base a $500 decision on any one person. Having worked for a manufacturing OEM (not automobile) and a filter manufacturer in the past, you would think I would be promoting, but I am not, probably because I know more than I should. Do your own research, but question everything and understand personal interests.

I have two emissions engineers working at a major engine manufacturer that live on my street. They said modern engine are typically pushed close to max because of thr government. They said there is little if any low hanging fruit, meaning cheap mods that seem too good to be true, typically are just that. The one engineer said he would be fired if he forgot to tell his upper management about some cheap mod that simply increases MPG and power without any thing to give up. They spend billions in R&D, and would love to learn of some overlooked add on gave them benefits.
 

TRIGGER_Hemi

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Posts
131
Reaction score
10
Ram Year
2014
Engine
Hemi 5.7
damn winter fuel sounds like crap. Winter fuel in SoCal right now is 3.09 for 89 and its around 70 during the day:love51:
 

Hemi450hp

Moe's Performance
Preferred Vendor
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Posts
9,421
Reaction score
4,704
Location
Conroe, TX
Ram Year
2014 Ram 1500
Engine
Whipple Supercharged 422" Hemi
Ok, you keep thinking that. K&n sure, that is just marketing. But there have been multiple people me included who have picked up real world gains with the vararam intake, whether it be track slips or just racing a friend they do work.

Just let the naysayers keep talking. While I will agree that intakes don't show much of a gain in mileage, they do make more power than stock...no question about it. We have tested this on stock and modified trucks, and the results are always the same. More air, less restriction, larger surface area on the filter element = more power. Doesn't matter if you have the stock computer or not, these upgrades will make more power.

Yes, there are some aftermarket intakes that are not much of an improvement over stock, and yes there are other upgrades that will give you more bang for your buck, but at the end of the day, the aftermarket intakes do still make more power.
 

blackbetty14

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Posts
2,701
Reaction score
1,426
Location
CT
Ram Year
2024
Engine
Hemi 5.7 VVT/Etorque
I would love to hear how the ECM can control air flow?! ECM looks at a couple of things, IAT (Intake air temp), speed density or MAP sensing, fuel flow to get to a predetermined air/fuel ratio (first and second bank), knock sensors and a base map fuel/ignition curve. Theres technically no way to "limit" the amount of air an engine ingests… this is based off engine size (piston/stroke), valve timing and thats about it. The TB does not magically close to limit the amount of air to keep a desired air flow. In fact MAP/speed density has no "actual" way of measuring air like a MAF system which can calculate how much air is being ingested by how it cools the MAF sensor wire etc. MAP/Speed density is basically guessing based off a pre determined table and vacuum etc. Sure VVT can decrease valve timing enough to limit air flow slightly but not in the way that it makes a huge difference.

The computer guesses at the incoming air from the MAP sensor, uses IAT and the 02 sensors to regulate A/F ratio and uses IAT/knock sensors to help with knock. Of course Im not going to bring up valve timing, base timing curves, load values, fuel maps, engine temps etc. But basically OEM mopar has gotten the base tables mapped out very accurately and then uses the sensors to make fine tune adjustments depending on fuel quality, ambient air temps, location/altitude etc.

You can in fact increase the amount of air ingested into the engine which will squirt more fuel to get the desired A/F ratio with the stock tuning… however due to the base fuel curves the ECm will compensate and only allow the desired A/F ratio… a tuner would benefit as they can edit the A/F and timing tables etc to created a better environment for power.

As far as the guys who say that engines are maxed out this is true. OEM needs to get there engines as efficient as possible… but efficiency does not mean max power. The fact is that when you decrease engine temp you can decrease IAT temps which means cooler intake charge = Denser air = more fuel = less detonation = more power. But an engine that runs at 160*F is less efficient than an engine that runs at 200 - 220 *F, the higher engine temps burn more of the fuel increasing efficiency. OEMs can only do so much since there hands are tied behind there backs as they have to follow strict guidelines/requirements.

CAI can work, depending on design and how inefficient the stock intake design is. K&N isn't a horrible filter they got a bad wrap due to the oil in the filter getting on the MAF sensors causing the measurements to be off, but they use a looser fiber which allows more air flow but more/larger particles to pass through… they counter this with oil in the filter but again its no the best filter design. I like the dry high flow filters personally. Now the Vararam is not technically just a CAI… its also a RAM AIR… forcing air into the TB/intake Vs sucking it changes the game. The fact is that air ramed into the engine is denser than air sucked in, more air means the ECM needs to richen the A/F to keep the same A/F ratio… more air + more fuel = bigger bang = more power. Same principle as forced induction and NOS, the added air which is under pressure (Above atmospheric pressure) allows more fuel and air to be ingested causing a bigger hotter bang = more power. NOS is the same thing but but adds the NO2 of nitrogen/ 2 parts oxygen to the existing intake charge allowing more fuel to be added for a hotter bigger bang. The Vararam like all real RAM airs can create more power than a standard CAI.

This can have a negative affect on MPG tho… more air = more fuel = more fuel burned per RPM. But the increased power can also mean you require slightly less RPM to maintain the same speed so you can actually offset the increased fuel demand for slightly better MPG. This is something the OEM's can't "gamble" with, they need something thats going to work.

Also remember that the HEMI's have a inherent problem with the PCV system sucking in oil causing some nasty gunk in the TB and intake… therefore on the valves and Spark plugs. This is a problem that Mopar won't address, prob because they get LOTS of money getting people coming in to get there TBs cleaned after 15K miles or spark plugs changed out due to being gunked up. Lets not forget while they try to be efficient they also need to make there money in the end. Would I say the oil catch can "increases MPG and efficiency" no not immediately but it will in the longer its on.

Smaller DIA exhaust promotes backpressure which actually increases low end power and tq but limits Max power. OEMs take this into account as most people in a factory DD car/truck don't spend all there time at redline, smaller DIA also creates less noise which they have to meet a certain Db level. Again just another point that OEM is about efficiency not power even if the efficiency is only in a narrow RPM range.


OEM's have a point where they think the benefit of a MPG potentially is not worth the cost then they won't do it. BUt say for that guy that drives ALOT of highway in his truck might benefit from a aeropackage that includes ground effects to the front bumper, undercarriage panels and longer/lower sides to help reduce the amount of air drag on the truck… Again they look at the big picture but I can tell you that some aero mods to the RAM would most likely net some increased MPG gains that would be noticeable. They are basically moving bricks with big front end acting like a wall. 10 years ago you never saw 18 wheelers wit those fancy fiberglass side skirts under the cargo bins or the wings at the back which help with air resistance… they won't put those on if they didn't make a noticeable difference. Just saying some mods will benefit some more than others and that the OEM doesn't do "everything" to squeeze max efficiency/power out of the motors.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening.
 
Last edited:
Top