Orange sludge under radiator cap

[Rome X]

Hi all,

Just bought this truck recently, and the radiator fan is really loud, especially in 1st and 2nd gear, and anytime I'm coasting down hill especially.

I check the radiator overflow and its bone dry. I open the radiator cap and this is what I find...
From some basic research it looks like 2 incompatible coolants were mixed, making this rusty looking sludge?

I am brand new to doing anything on my own vehicles, but was thinking of trying to flush this out myself and replace with new coolant. Seems most people also replace the thermostat when they flush the radiator? Anyone willing to offer advice or have a good, reputable, video walkthrough for this process for a 2013 Ram 1500 v8? Would certainly appreciate it.

 

[Redfisher1974]

Oh that’s not good! Gonna need a super good flush. Good luck.

 

[buckeyexx]

Yeah definitely not good. It does apper to be mixed coolant. You can try to flush but Im betting you will need a new radiator at least if not a whole lot more. That heater core has to be plugged up. Are you getting heat? Best of luck on that one.

 

[Rome X]

The local RAM dealer does coolant flushes and new coolant for $139. They said if I want a new thermostat too, they can do like a pressured flush while that is open and it will get more gunk out. They also use coolant system chemical cleaners, and refill with mopar coolant. So the price seemed pretty reasonable for the flush at the dealer. My concern is they say it will end up needing thousands of dollars of other stuff to fix this and then I'm stuck. I dont have the money for a new radiator etc.

 

[Daw14]

New rad likely needed , maybe with some good luck you can clean it . Definitely need to flush the hell out of that engine.

 

[Rome X]

New rad likely needed , maybe with some good luck you can clean it . Definitely need to flush the hell out of that engine.

Seeing some similar photos online with people who cleaned their radiators like this with vinegar. Interesting...

Yall think dealers are more likely to push to replace things vs clean/fix them than a regular small shop?

 

[Scottly]

Ahhh, wishing for the good ol' days of a "rod and repair", $79 and problem solved. Now, new plastic POS radiator plus-plus-plus...$1K.

 

[Daw14]

Start flushing with water and see how things look , remove hoses from rad first , remove t-stat then flush block .

 

[Burla]

You ran it dry, and the larger issue is why, as in that system shouldnt be leaking. So unless you never checked it for ten years plus, this shouldnt happen unless there is an issue. There is no way I would opt for either what the dealer is selling you here, I wouldnt want high pressure here and their 139 drain and fill I wouldnt bother. Hopefully now it is full, put in a correct lifetime coolant, not dex. With it full get a 32 ounce size rmi 25 and dump it in immediately. It will clean the system if it can be cleaned, and all of the gunk will be trapped in the overflow. I have used it on something similar and that is what happened.

A side note, I recently had a septic issue, my pipes where full of biomat. I tried high pressure and even scrubbing with high pressure, even hot water. I did what I could I thought. By accident I put a little bacteria enzyme in there just thinking it couldnt hurt and walked away. Many hours later I walked by my d box and smelled something funny, it was fresh smelling. Opened it up, and the entire pipe was clean and that biomatt was dripping into the d box and had a fresh smell to it, completely bizarre. The right product for something like this was way more important then procedure. My pipe was 1/2 full of biomatt, zero chance any scrubbing would have worked. I learned more that day then any year I have been on erf.

Check your oil for coolant or milkyness too.

 

[buckeyexx]

All you can do is try. I hope you can flush it out for your sake. I agree with burla, you shouldnt have been bone dry for no reason though so you likely have an issue there. If you can clear it out I would do a pressure test for a leak after.

 

[Burla]

How RMI-25 Works to Clean Your Engine​

RMI-25 restores the additive package to your antifreeze. RMI-25 is a liquid consisting of a pH Stabilizer for acid/alkaline balance and an Oxygen Scavenger to prevent cavitation, erosion, and cylinder pitting. A Lubricant for seals, hoses and water pumps. A Cleaner that breaks down rust, scale and corrosive deposits. These deposits are changed from solids to a soft floating harmless gel-like material. These dissolved solids will not recombine or form blockages in the cooling system. After a period of time, the dissolved solids will purge out of the system and into the coolant recovery tank. In the case of vehicles with coolant filters, the dissolved materials will become trapped in the filter. In a couple weeks of driving a dirty system will be nearly clean. This cleaning action is continuous when the engine is in operation. Once the clean metal status is reached an organic barrier is then formed on the clean metal preventing further contamination. Water Conditioning is accomplished by a surfactant agent, improving heat transfer and making water more efficient than coolant itself.

You will need to get those out of recovery tank, wet dry vac will work.

 

[Rome X]

You ran it dry, and the larger issue is why, as in that system shouldnt be leaking. So unless you never checked it for ten years plus, this shouldnt happen unless there is an issue. There is no way I would opt for either what the dealer is selling you here, I wouldnt want high pressure here and their 139 drain and fill I wouldnt bother. Hopefully now it is full, put in a correct lifetime coolant, not dex. With it full get a 32 ounce size rmi 25 and dump it in immediately. It will clean the system if it can be cleaned, and all of the gunk will be trapped in the overflow. I have used it on something similar and that is what happened.

A side note, I recently had a septic issue, my pipes where full of biomat. I tried high pressure and even scrubbing with high pressure, even hot water. I did what I could I thought. By accident I put a little bacteria enzyme in there just thinking it couldnt hurt and walked away. Many hours later I walked by my d box and smelled something funny, it was fresh smelling. Opened it up, and the entire pipe was clean and that biomatt was dripping into the d box and had a fresh smell to it, completely bizarre. The right product for something like this was way more important then procedure. My pipe was 1/2 full of biomatt, zero chance any scrubbing would have worked. I learned more that day then any year I have been on erf.

Check your oil for coolant or milkyness too.

I have only owned this truck a couple weeks. The last owner per the carfax owned it 7 years, whop knows what they did with it.

I cant find this RMI-25 anywhere, where is this even sold?
For lifetime coolant, I was looking at Peak Global lifetime, people seem to like that. Also not sold at any autoparts stores near me, have to order it on amazon...

Are you saying the drain, flush and coolant for $139 can actually hurt given current condition, or just isnt likely to help? Im getting tires balanced tomorrow anyways so i tacked this on when I discovered it today.

 

[Burla]

That wont help anything at all, the issue with modern coolants is they have no detergents, so adding fresh coolant will not help the same way adding new oil would, as it has detergents. They don't have detegents because the object of coolant is to put a film on the cooling system to protect it. So once the ish hits the fan, you need to fix that, most of it is rather harmless a build up of silicates, you can kind of see that. But just like my septic system needed the right enzyme to fix, that system also will need the correct detergent type product, and imo rmi 25 is the only one I know of and indeed worked on a rad the previous owner mixed orange and green coolants in, I know because when I drained it you can see both orange and green in it. You dont amazon?

amazon fitament is just wrong here.

 

[Burla]

Awe, interesting thing if your truck is 2013 you need hoat not oat, appoligies...

So there are really only 2 options I know of, mopar hoat 5 year, or zerex go-5, which is yellow. Peak global life will not work as good as it would with oat mopar 10 year.

 

[Rome X]

That wont help anything at all, the issue with modern coolants is they have no detergents, so adding fresh coolant will not help the same way adding new oil would, as it has detergents. They don't have detegents because the object of coolant is to put a film on the cooling system to protect it. So once the ish hits the fan, you need to fix that, most of it is rather harmless a build up of silicates, you can kind of see that. But just like my septic system needed the right enzyme to fix, that system also will need the correct detergent type product, and imo rmi 25 is the only one I know of and indeed worked on a rad the previous owner mixed orange and green coolants in, I know because when I drained it you can see both orange and green in it. You dont amazon?

amazon fitament is just wrong here.

If it won't hurt, I may just do it since just buying 5 gallons of coolant will cost me like $75 alone, so not needing to do the flush myself is worth the $60 to me right now, and maybe they can get some of the physical gunk out of there with the flush to give me a headstart. I ordered that 5 bottle kit on amazon, but was surprised to see a single seller on amazon and zero parts stores stocking this stuff?

The HOAT vs OAT thing is weird. Apparently this changes in 2013, and the manual calls for OAT, but whether it actually got HOAT or OAT may depend on manufacturer's date of that specific 2013 ram. How bizarre.

Finally, I find it weird that there's no check engine type light if things are overheating I would assume.

 

[Rome X]

Awe, interesting thing if your truck is 2013 you need hoat not oat, appoligies...

So there are really only 2 options I know of, mopar hoat 5 year, or zerex go-5, which is yellow. Peak global life will not work as good as it would with oat mopar 10 year.

View attachment 529967

If the dealer does a full coolant flush, couldn't I then put in whatever coolant I want to use moving forward? So whether my truck orignally got HOAT or OAT, I can just replace with MOPAR OAT 10 year?

 

[Burla]

I just give info to be helpful, the decision or path forward is on you, I do not judge. To get a full flush they will need to remove drain bolts in engine, it wont be anything cheap to do it right the drivers side bolt is no joke, plus the temp of the engine coolant and incoming coolant would have to exceed 204 and have heater on full blast at the time of the "flush" to have the t stat open and heater core valve opened. I don't believe any dealer will ever do a true flush, that isnt how things are done anymore, if they can convince you different, then consider it, but I dont even believe it possible without wasting either a lot of coolant or distilled water. Like I said, I used rmi 25 worked like a charm. They have other radiator flushes I'm sure in stock. Call local radiator shops, they may stock rmi25. good luck with that

 

[grizzstang]

I believe they started making the switch to OAT in 2013.

Our 2013 Jeep Wrangler is definitely OAT.

 

[Burla]

I believe they started making the switch to OAT in 2013.

Our 2013 Jeep Wrangler is definitely OAT.

Correct- page 134 of 2013 owners manual, so the chart is off by a year. good catch

So universal is back in play.

 

[Rome X]

Correct- page 134 of 2013 owners manual, so the chart is off by a year. good catch

So universal is back in play.

I appreciate the replies. I just topped off the cool radiator with distilled water, only took a couple ounces. Filled the overflow res until i was between min and max. Drove 20 minutes. Temp never went above 201F, and I do indeed have hot heat when I turn the heater on (didnt know since I bought this truck a couple weeks ago in TN summer). The top rad hose was too hot to comfortably touch after that drive, is that normal/good sign?

That photo with the sludge looks terrible, but maybe a flush at the dealer, a fill with Mopar OAT coolant, and 8oz bottles of RMI25 when they arrive next week will all combine to save me from a rad replacement and any further issues.

Questions before I take it to dealer tomorrow:
1. Is a really hot upper rad hose normal/good sign after driving 20 minutes?

2. Should I bother with the thermostat replacement when its at the dealer tomorrow? They want $40 for the part and an hour labor (so like $160?) to replace it, but say they can likely do a more complete flush if they remove it. Otherwise standard flush and fill for $139 total. Would the expectation be that sludge has jacked with the thermostat and replacement is a good idea regardless?

3. I have a really loud rad fan issue, like a fan roar sound that is really loud, in sync with the RPMs, highest in 1st gear, little less in 2nd and 3rd gear respectively. In higher gears it seems to go away entirely. I have read online that the top causes for this are likely too low coolant/engine overheat or fan clutch failure. Wanted to get your expert opinions, since this fan issue is what led me to start checking coolant things.

Thank you!