Should You Use Nitrogen in Your truck Tires?

[20IndyRam]

For Dry Air and nitrogen, the Ideal gas law generally applies - Wiki Ideal Gas Law

PV-nrT (temperature is in degrees Kelvin).

For a "dry" gas in a constant volume pressure will increase by 15.1% over a temperature range of 70 to 150F (294.26 to 338.706 degrees K). An equivalent pressure increase would be from 35 to 40.3 PSI.

Your tires are not fixed volume - they will expand with increasing pressure - i.e. the pressure increase will be lower.

Your tires are also permeable. The Nitrogen atom is larger that the Oxygen atom despite nitrogen having a lower atomic weight. Oxygen will permeate through your rubber tires faster than Nitrogen.

Why use nitrogen in tires? For most people there is no good reason. For people that heat their tires above 220F, there is moisture to consider. Most of us will never heat a tire anywhere near 220F (without catastrophic failure). If you do, moisture in an air filled tire will undergo a State change (steam) with a drastic increase in pressure. At this point the ideal gas law no longer applies. Nascar, Formula 1, Indy routinely run in this temperature range. Nitrogen is cheap insurance to make sure there isn't water in the mixture and they can maintain their tire pressures.

Why not use Helium? Helium is the smallest atom. We used it for leak testing welded assemblies and gas tight seals. Over time, it will permeate through Glass and quartz (found out the hard way). A tire would look like a screen door. Did I mention it's not cheap?

Do I use Nitrogen - Sure. Whenever they supply it for free (Belle Tire).

 

[DA Smith]

Pros, the dealer sells it and he makes money.
Cons, the dealer sells it and you have to pay for it.

With air, you get 70% nitrogen and the dealer doesn't make any money. Win, win.

You must have one of those shyster type dealers! My dealer does not charge for nitrogen.

 

[Docwagon1776]

When was the last time you saw a Nitrogen truck at the dealer ?

Not sure if serious, but nobody is having nitrogen delivered. The machine simply extracts it from ambient air. Best you can do is about 95%. Compared to 70-80% ambient, depending on moisture, etc.

I think most of the benefits people think are tied to nitrogen are tied to the drier air. There's been some large scale studies by both fleets and by .gov agencies and all found the same thing. The differences are so small as to be irrelevant. There were measurable differences in air escape (nitrogen molecules are just ever so slightly larger than oxygen molecules) and in degradation of the inside of the tire (less oxidization) but it didn't matter because the air escape was something like 1psi per year difference and the tires were worn out or the exterior was dry rotted long before the difference on the inside caused any issue.

In short: Marketing scam. Unless you're taking your tires from well below freezing to risking combustion temperatures (are you NASA?) then it makes total sense. But Pep Boys aren't filling those for you.

 

[DA Smith]

With only 5 major worldwide helium suppliers, price is easily manipulated. Domestically, we could produce all the helium we need from our natural gas fields, but we don't.

It's interesting you mentioned helium from the oil and gas industry in the U.S. I retired from the oil field after 33 years and in my career all we ever seemed to be really interested in was oil and a few other liquids and Natural gas. Now since all the EV crap has emerged from the liberals some of the major companies like EXXON MOBIL are now working on extracting lithium from oil and gas wells in Arkansas. Guess they figure since the tree huggers are trying to do away with gas and diesel power they need to work on battery making chemicals .

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Should You Use Nitrogen in Your truck Tires? Pros & Cons

I do about 70%

 

[DA Smith]

So let me understand Nitrogen use…Tires are placed on Rims with atmospheric air inside the tubeless space. Then, if I’m to believe the hype, Nitrogen is used exclusively to “pop” the tire beads into the rim??? Didn’t happen. Fake news. I’m out.
The couple of PSI of pure nitrogen used to top off the tire is certainly not going to hold “steady” during climate events, and is most definitely not worth any up charge!!!

Topping off the tire with nitrogen is not what happens. When I have my tires filled with nitrogen I have watched it being done at my dealership. Their nitrogen machine has four hoses and they attatch a hose to each tire the machine is turned on and it evacuates the air from all four tires. After the air has been sucked from the tires the machine starts refilling all four tires with 100 percent dry nitrogen to a specified psi that the machine has been set at which is usually what the psi sticker calls for on your vehicle. On another note I just bought a new Grand Design Travel Trailer and the tires come from the factory filled with nitrogen.

 

[pscarbor]

Should You Use Nitrogen in Your truck Tires? Pros & Cons

Absolutely! On Earth air is like, 70% nitrogen, that's about the percentage you should run and so if your compressor draws air from Mars or somewhere don't use that!

 

[Choupique]

I prefer the 78% blend

 

[skillzzs]

Topping off the tire with nitrogen is not what happens. When I have my tires filled with nitrogen I have watched it being done at my dealership. Their nitrogen machine has four hoses and they attatch a hose to each tire the machine is turned on and it evacuates the air from all four tires. After the air has been sucked from the tires the machine starts refilling all four tires with 100 percent dry nitrogen to a specified psi that the machine has been set at which is usually what the psi sticker calls for on your vehicle. On another note I just bought a new Grand Design Travel Trailer and the tires come from the factory filled with nitrogen.

I would think a complete vacuum down would break the wheel/rim bead…if that happens, game over. Maybe this process allows a few more percent Nitrogen in the tire, but it surely isn’t 100%. And I’m also guessing most locations don’t go through this effort. In the end… If others want to spend money on this crock, more power to them, but I’ll spend mine on something more tangible.

 

[IdaRam4x4]

Yes! Our Costco fills with Nitrogen and it is very stable thru wild temperature swings. Would I pay extra to fill with it? Probably not

 

[DA Smith]

I would think a complete vacuum down would break the wheel/rim bead…if that happens, game over. Maybe this process allows a few more percent Nitrogen in the tire, but it surely isn’t 100%. And I’m also guessing most locations don’t go through this effort. In the end… If others want to spend money on this crock, more power to them, but I’ll spend mine on something more tangible.

I have never spent a penny on Nitrogen fill tires. The dealer I buy from does not charge me for this. Also I have bought tires from Discount Tires which has stores all across the U.S. My local store in East Texas fills all tires sold by them with Nitrogen and I have never seen a charge for it. Before you say that it's added into the price of the tire this may well be so but guess what even if it is so their prices are always less than their competitors and I get Nitrogen in the deal.

 

[jimboschnitz]

I had my last tires replaced at Costco and apparently they claim to have filled the tires with
Nitrogen. My belief was that nitrogen filled tires eliminate moisture and that pressure fluctuation
is minimal. However, when I left the store my tire pressure was supposed to be set at 36psi but my
in dash guage showed anywhere from 34 psi on the lowest to 40 psi on the highest. I approached the tire shop foreman about this and he explained that there could be a variance of 7 psi on the tires. I thought BS but didn't argue with him I watch my tire pressure meticulously and they typically are within 1 to 3 psi and fluctuate between 37 and 40 psi. Last week the temps here in North Texas got down into the single digits and all my tire pressures were at 30 or 32 psi. Is Costco BS ing with the Nitrogen fill? I'm scheduled for a balance on rotation on Friday and will bring that situation to their
attention and see what their response will be. To be continued.

 

[20IndyRam]

@jimboschnitz ,

Not sure if you have nitrogen, but the drop to 30 psi is about spot on.

Per the Ideal gas law (earlier): PV= nRT (Pressure*Volume = moles*Boltzman constant*Temperature(Kelvin)). For you case, V (volume) and n and R are constant.

For our purposes, if the temperature goes from 75F (297.039 Kelvin) to 0F (255.37 Kelvin) that's a 14% decrease in temperature. In order to balance the equation, Pressure must decrease by 14%

35psi * .86 = 30.1

I don't see a problem here

 

[Badger 13]

Here is a new twist on the use of nitrogen...

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/alabama-prepares-1st-nitrogen-gas-execution/story?id=106605519

 

[Choupique]

The argument for using pure nitrogen should be that it is inert and would theoretically lead to less deterioration on the inside of the tire and the wheel.

 

[RamDiver]

I had my last tires replaced at Costco and apparently they claim to have filled the tires with
Nitrogen. My belief was that nitrogen filled tires eliminate moisture and that pressure fluctuation
is minimal. However, when I left the store my tire pressure was supposed to be set at 36psi but my
in dash guage showed anywhere from 34 psi on the lowest to 40 psi on the highest. I approached the tire shop foreman about this and he explained that there could be a variance of 7 psi on the tires. I thought BS but didn't argue with him I watch my tire pressure meticulously and they typically are within 1 to 3 psi and fluctuate between 37 and 40 psi. Last week the temps here in North Texas got down into the single digits and all my tire pressures were at 30 or 32 psi. Is Costco BS ing with the Nitrogen fill? I'm scheduled for a balance on rotation on Friday and will bring that situation to their
attention and see what their response will be. To be continued.

If you want to measure the tire pressures accurately, a decent analogue dial gauge is necessary. While I agree that some TPMS-measured tire pressures may have variances, +/- 7 sounds a bit ridiculous. Maybe, this is the worst they have seen in the tire business and again why we should be verifying the tire pressure accuracy using a gauge.

If mine were more than a couple of PSI from what I read using a dial gauge, I'd expect a replacement from wherever these TPMS were bought. AFAIK, my TPMS are +/- ~1 PSI or better, according to my gauge.

How well were the TPMS-read tire pressures on your vehicle functioning, before the new tires at Costco and have they ever been verified using a tire pressure gauge?

Whenever I change between the summer & winter wheels, I usually set the pressures a couple of PSI high and adjust during the next cool morning. It's easy to deflate by a pound or two but tough to add your own Nitrogen.

Costco has free Nitrogen fills and top-offs, why not just add until your TPMS is satisfied and confirm using a 'non-PRC made' pressure gauge?

My Costco now has 2 parking spots adjacent to the tire shop with Nitrogen fill pumps for DIY.

.

 

[jimboschnitz]

When my in dash pressure shows deviation from the norm, I have a digital guage I use
to check and fill. I spoke to the service advisor at Costco and told him my experience
and he said in so many words that even with nitrogen you will get temperature fluctuation.
I asked specifically about 10 psi and he said yes. Anyone else see that?

 

[Dean2]

When my in dash pressure shows deviation from the norm, I have a digital guage I use
to check and fill. I spoke to the service advisor at Costco and told him my experience
and he said in so many words that even with nitrogen you will get temperature fluctuation.
I asked specifically about 10 psi and he said yes. Anyone else see that?

If you read this thread you would know many of us have seen exactly the same thing.

 

[Wild one]

I just use my air compressor with a dryer/water trap on it,lol

https://www.amazon.com/Cleaner-Dryer-Campbell-Hausfeld-PA208503AV/dp/B0009KN9T0/ref=ci_mcx_psdc_3753811_t1_B083V5CLZT?th=1

Cheap dryer

https://www.amazon.com/Desiccant-Dryer-Compressed-Pneumatic-Plasma/dp/B083V5CLZT?ref_=Oct_d_orecs_d_11849289011_2&pd_rd_w=5WP22&content-id=amzn1.sym.e1cfe5a7-bf96-4be4-9b22-b7af91885bd5&pf_rd_p=e1cfe5a7-bf96-4be4-9b22-b7af91885bd5&pf_rd_r=EM2923RRNC62RHHKDCXC&pd_rd_wg=gh41q&pd_rd_r=1317dd7d-cd71-41b8-bb98-77ec66a24e52&pd_rd_i=B083V5CLZT&th=1&tag=ramforum-20