Synthetic Oil

[Burla]

F*ck, time for a n engine/block heater before winter!

this

 

[grizzstang]

Let’s not forget that there are a lot of Hemi’s out there with a lot of miles on them. That video does make sense to me and he seems to know his stuff. In the end I feel that oil choice, keeping idling time to a minimum and not running your oil too long will make a difference. Time will tell I guess.


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[Burla]

I wonder if now with this info that 0w30 redline would be the new hemi honey, it would be a little thinner for cold OR dry starts. I have to disagree a bit at this point with respect grizz. Yes, I have been saying oil choices matters less if the engine isn't ticking, but what uncle tony proved was perpendicular force and all the lifters to the point they are all scuffed. So that time we have 6 cam fails in a row with non moly'd oils, totally makes sense.

Yes it is great most hemi's wont fail, but is that the real question? If most of those hemi's are scuffing lifters due to that force wouldn't all of them benefit from EP additives that are literally built for this? It doesn't have to be redline oil, but in my opinion this changes everything as far as developing a lubrication strategy. I wouldn't go buying some non moly off the shelf oil because it's on sale. And I would think about adding some lubegard if I was running cheap otc oils which are good quality but maybe can benefit from the extra moly and esters.

 

[Hemi395]

So what level of iron in a UOA do you guys thinks is bad? There was a lot more idling than normal on this interval. Going to cut that out. Also ran it for a whole lot longer than I ever have. Normally change around 5k. Took it to 8500 this time. Wont do that again.


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I'm sorry to say that iron level is worrying. At 65k it should be much lower. Did you have any new internal engine parts replaced right before this run? That might explain it if you did. If not, I would run another UOA in a few thousand miles. If the iron is still high after 2-3000miles you may have a problem.....

But the good thing is you are alerted to it now. I really think UOAs are critical with these motors for this very reason.

 

[Burla]

I'm sorry to say that iron level is worrying. At 65k it should be much lower. Did you have any new internal engine parts replaced right before this run? That might explain it if you did. If not, I would run another UOA in a few thousand miles. If the iron is still high after 2-3000miles you may have a problem.....

But the good thing is you are alerted to it now. I really think UOAs are critical with these motors for this very reason.

im not sure if he said or not, but we need to know if this was first run redline or not.

 

[tjfdesmo]

So what level of iron in a UOA do you guys thinks is bad? There was a lot more idling than normal on this interval. Going to cut that out. Also ran it for a whole lot longer than I ever have. Normally change around 5k. Took it to 8500 this time. Wont do that again.


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Out of pure curiosity, are you running the OEM airbox and filter?

 

[Nutshell]

So, posting some garage data from my 2020. No tick from the start, however a loud motor. This is my 4th Hemi so I'm used to it. At 750 miles I dumped the factory fill and went with QSUD 5-30. The plan being, give this a go for 750 (1500 total) and switch to RL 5-30. QSUD 5-30 with RP 20-820, cold start tick. F*ck, me, not this again! Dumped and went straight to RL 5-30 with an Amsoil filter...cold start tick. WTF!!!! Had some RL 5-20 laying around and hit the local O'Reilly's and grabbed a WIX XP (larger filter). Dumped about 3/4 of the RL 5-30 and filled with RL 5-20. Start up tick gone. Was the 5-30 causing my start up tick? Not sure but I think I found a combo that works. When up to temp, very quiet. That was an expensive few days...

 

[Burla]

Just sad to hear this **** is going on still, Nutshell if you haven't read the last ten pages on this thread you might want to, there has been huge development in hemi tick. Again, my guess would be 5w30 redline would have killed the tick, but as stated a thousand times, it takes time for the moly to plate, and thanks to uncle tony's video, we can actually SEE why. If 5w20 works, stay with that.

 

[Burla]

nutshell, this was the development..

Lifters are being scuffed in the cavity, this is bad enough that it creates pressure downstream. Moly corrects this, take away the perpendicular force and it eases the forces downstream.

 

[Burla]

Hemi Tick = **** in the Bore uncle tony's words. I know there is a joke in there somewhere, I'm sure kyle will bring a good one. Moly plate takes the **** out of the bore, makes it lift smoothly. Kind of like ky jelly would do with a **** in a *****

 

[Burla]

I asked Dave about which redline has the most moly..

Burla,

I am not sure I would say super high levels, most of the Race Oils contain 880 ppm molybdenum, most of the Motor Oils 600 ppm.

Regards,
Dave Granquist



Man it would be nice if redline had a moly additive?

 

[14Tradesman]

Sorry it took me so long to get back been a busy day.

It is NOT the first redline run. Its probably 4th or 5th but this is only the second UOA on this truck. The first UOA is on that same sheet. Always use Redline 5w-30 and RP 20-820 filter.

No work whatsoever has been done to the truck. I have idled alot more on this interval due to winter time defrost/warm up. Honestly I idle more than I should when it isnt winter, stopping that habit for obvious reasons.

I never had a tick. I did have a warm startup tick that went away after less than 2 seconds in 2017 when I first bought the truck used with 15k miles on it. But it always ran quietly. Even more quiet since I started running redline a few years ago.

Truck currently starts and runs as quiet and as smooth as can be. Quiet enough that too my ears, all I can hear is injectors firing. People comment all the time that it is amazing how quiet my truck is.

Edit: I also realized this weekend that I have a sample I pulled from the previous oil change to this one that I never sent in for analysis. May send that one in as well to see if the iron was high in it too or if it just started on this analysis.

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[Nutshell]

nutshell, this was the development..

Lifters are being scuffed in the cavity, this is bad enough that it creates pressure downstream. Moly corrects this, take away the perpendicular force and it eases the forces downstream.

Good stuff. Makes a lot of sense, thanks for posting. I’m going to see how 5-20 plays out. It’s quiet now. Been about 100 miles in RL 5-20. The general motor noise is all but gone. This morning, no cold start tick. One thing I noticed on my 2015 and on my 2020 when switching to RL was how much it smoothed out my idle.

 

[Burla]

Sorry it took me so long to get back been a busy day.

It is NOT the first redline run. Its probably 4th or 5th but this is only the second UOA on this truck. The first UOA is on that same sheet. Always use Redline 5w-30 and RP 20-820 filter.

No work whatsoever has been done to the truck. I have idled alot more on this interval due to winter time defrost/warm up. Honestly I idle more than I should when it isnt winter, stopping that habit for obvious reasons.

I never had a tick. I did have a warm startup tick that went away after less than 2 seconds in 2017 when I first bought the truck used with 15k miles on it. But it always ran quietly. Even more quiet since I started running redline a few years ago.

Truck currently starts and runs as quiet and as smooth as can be. Quiet enough that too my ears, all I can hear is injectors firing. People comment all the time that it is amazing how quiet my truck is.

Edit: I also realized this weekend that I have a sample I pulled from the previous oil change to this one that I never sent in for analysis. May send that one in as well to see if the iron was high in it too or if it just started on this analysis.

Well, if it was another other vehicle I'd say dump it before it dies, but hemi's are all high wear engines and I'd say your numbers maybe 30% higher then normal, which isn't that bad considering the application. I would however try some things if it were me, I'd probably see if 5w20 redline was as smooth as 5w30, and if so I'd check the uoa's, or even consider 5w20 PUP. I say that because PUP tends to have the lowest wear numbers. Now, if you get tick on PUP, I'd say that is a dead strategy. So a couple things you might consider. Main thing keep tick away.

 

[14Tradesman]

Well, if it was another other vehicle I'd say dump it before it dies, but hemi's are all high wear engines and I'd say your numbers maybe 30% higher then normal, which isn't that bad considering the application. I would however try some things if it were me, I'd probably see if 5w20 redline was as smooth as 5w30, and if so I'd check the uoa's, or even consider 5w20 PUP. I say that because PUP tends to have the lowest wear numbers. Now, if you get tick on PUP, I'd say that is a dead strategy. So a couple things you might consider. Main thing keep tick away.

Like I said though, I have no tick whatsoever. Truck hasnt made any noise really for 2 years or more.

I think I am going to send in my other sample from 13,000 miles or so ago and see what it looks like. While waiting on that to come back, Im just going to keep running the 5w-30 for now knowing I idled alot and avoid idling at all costs.

I think I am only going run this interval for 3k miles and send an analysis in on it and see where I stand at that point. Dumping the truck really isnt a feasible option at this point.


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[Burla]

So I'd just say this, 5w20 redline also had my hemi butter smooth. And as we see with this design, start up and idle are the issue, and the thickness of viscosity is a hindrance to lubrication during these periods. But, 5w20 redline has the same EP additives as 5w30, but it would in theory lubricate this area maybe a tab better as it is thinner. So have you ever tried 5w20 redline? If you are gonna stay with 30 weight another move is 0w30 redline. I'm just brainstorming to see if we can still keep your tick away and get wear metals down. You wont know unless you try. My wear is visa versa with yours, my iron is 24ppm but my copper is like 170ppm. If I were you, I would see what oil keeps tick away but also gets iron down if possible. good luck... My uoa's, I was able to get copper going down but iron wear stayed the same if you consider mileage..

 

[14Tradesman]

I used 5w-20 the first couple times I used Redline. 5w-30 runs quieter but I never did an analysis on the 5w-20.


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[Burla]

So either stick with 5w30 or maybe try 0w30, hopefully overtime the iron will come down a bit, but if you look at all the uoa's you will see high iron wear. Corey was the first to try 0w30 and believe his engine was still smooth. It is what it is brother.

 

[Bigpaul13]

So either stick with 5w30 or maybe try 0w30, hopefully overtime the iron will come down a bit, but if you look at all the uoa's you will see high iron wear. Corey was the first to try 0w30 and believe his engine was still smooth. It is what it is brother.

It's gunna be a while but I'll try 0w 30 in my next change which will be around cold weather time. I had some start up noise when it got cold here last winter so you suggested I drain 2 qts and add in 2 of 0w 20 (I think, something real light) to see what difference it made. Seemed quieter at start up and no increase in tick but it warmed up like a week later so I want to try again this year.

I'm running 5w30 without issue now and will do my first uoa when this oil is about to be changed. This is my second change with RL but man the last few days makes me what to get a sample now lol

 

[Burla]

but man the last few days makes me what to get a sample now lol

yeah everyone is pretty excited about that, but in the end nothing has changed, we just know a little more about it. Let's see what the uoa says before making any decisions. The other uoa troubled me a bit, that is why I thought maybe he should try some things.