The 6.4 HD Hemi Thread

[Olli]

From what I can see on this picture, the oil filter mount/cooler is a unit that bolts to the block. I can imagine a gasket between the two. I guess that is what failed. Bolts not torqued to spec? Spec too low? Pure open speculation on my part. You can also see the oil pressure sender above. I actually suspected that either the oil filter gasket started leaking from a loose filter (historically filters are crazy tight from the factory though) or the filter housing developed a burst hole.

Glad to hear that you are being taking care of. Make sure that the servicing dealer re-fills with 0w40 Ultra. Heck of a way to get the first oil change.

Olli

http://www.allpar.com/photos/A1/2014-jan/marc/64-truck.jpg

 

[WhiteExpress]

Oh no, oil was everywhere, there was little chance to diagnose on the side of the road. So the dealer said it appeared to be the gasket between the oil filter housing and the engine itself. Of course the part had to be ordered, supposed to be here first thing this morning and repaired today. My dealer back in Austin did get us a rental, so at least were still mobile. I'll keep y'all posted.

I'm wondering if I am having that same issue. I noticed that my oil filter was black and the bottom of the engine had a mist of oil and crud. I'm far less than happy. I have an oil change coming up in ~300 miles so I was thinking maybe I just didn't get the filter on tight enough *shrug*

 

[5punksdad]

I have read this entire thread as I am strongly considering either a 2500 or 3500 Ram 6.4
I have found a lot of good info here so far and wanted to add a little to the discussion.

First of all, on the oil discussion. I have owned almost every SRT vehicle produced (short of the Viper car and 4cyl models) 08 Challenger SRT8, 07 Charger SRT8, 05 Crossfire SRT6, 04 Ram SRT10 and the 09 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8, . ALL of them recommended Mobil-1 engine oil in which ever viscosity the car/truck wanted. I truly believe Mobil-1 would be just fine in this 6.4 or any vehicle. I have also used cheap oils in my SRT's at times and never got any code/fault from doing so. I am a 3000 mile oil change guy.

As for likes and dislikes of the Ram 6.4 I can only go from my test drives in the past few days. I have been comparing it to the Chevy/GM 6.0 and I just drove a 2015 2500 GMC today with 4.10's. The GMC is a pig compared to the Dodge. A nice truck, but low on power. I am not considering a Ford.
Also, after a quick crawl under the trucks today I noticed 2 dislikes. #1 the oil filter/s on both the GM and the Dodge are no bigger than the filter on my 1985 Honda Nighthawk. What's with that?
#2...... neither truck has a drain plug in the tranny filter pan? Are we going backwards? I am no Ford fan, although I own 2 with the 6.8 V10 and they both have a serviceable tranny pan. They also have a huge problem with exhaust manifold bolts needing replaced every couple of years at a huge expense. But, I have been diligent about dropping the tranny oil on a regular basis as well as the filter and have 185k miles on my original Ford tranny. And it works hard, towing and plowing snow since 2001.

Now for fuel economy......15mpg aint bad! The 6.8 V10 triton gets 10 if you are lucky. I have seen 6.8mpg pulling a mere 5000lb trailer load with the Fords. The diesels are bragging about high mileage which just isn't so. They get ****** mileage too. I own a Duramax a Cummins and a Cat and used to have access to an Diesel Excursion (6.0 as I recall) which got no better mileage than my V10 gas motors. With the Dodge 6.4 I feel like I am at least getting some power from the fuel expense! (PS.... a fuel pump for a Cummins costs around 1500.00 for parts alone and I changed one at 64k miles, which is WAY too early)

Last but not least.......the oil leak. My Ram SRT-10 once spewed oil from the filter housing......Turned out to be an over tightened oil filter which split the gasket (note to self....don't let older brother change oil anymore). These things only need to be hand tight. Leave the filter wrench for removal only.

Thanks for all the good info so far. Keep the info flowing. I will be making my purchase soon I am sure. Been seeing prices of Laramies at around 48k and SLT packages at around 44k. How's that sound for comparative prices?

 

[WhiteExpress]

I have read this entire thread as I am strongly considering either a 2500 or 3500 Ram 6.4
I have found a lot of good info here so far and wanted to add a little to the discussion.

First of all, on the oil discussion. I have owned almost every SRT vehicle produced (short of the Viper car and 4cyl models) 08 Challenger SRT8, 07 Charger SRT8, 05 Crossfire SRT6, 04 Ram SRT10 and the 09 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8, . ALL of them recommended Mobil-1 engine oil in which ever viscosity the car/truck wanted. I truly believe Mobil-1 would be just fine in this 6.4 or any vehicle. I have also used cheap oils in my SRT's at times and never got any code/fault from doing so. I am a 3000 mile oil change guy.

As for likes and dislikes of the Ram 6.4 I can only go from my test drives in the past few days. I have been comparing it to the Chevy/GM 6.0 and I just drove a 2015 2500 GMC today with 4.10's. The GMC is a pig compared to the Dodge. A nice truck, but low on power. I am not considering a Ford.
Also, after a quick crawl under the trucks today I noticed 2 dislikes. #1 the oil filter/s on both the GM and the Dodge are no bigger than the filter on my 1985 Honda Nighthawk. What's with that?
#2...... neither truck has a drain plug in the tranny filter pan? Are we going backwards? I am no Ford fan, although I own 2 with the 6.8 V10 and they both have a serviceable tranny pan. They also have a huge problem with exhaust manifold bolts needing replaced every couple of years at a huge expense. But, I have been diligent about dropping the tranny oil on a regular basis as well as the filter and have 185k miles on my original Ford tranny. And it works hard, towing and plowing snow since 2001.

Now for fuel economy......15mpg aint bad! The 6.8 V10 triton gets 10 if you are lucky. I have seen 6.8mpg pulling a mere 5000lb trailer load with the Fords. The diesels are bragging about high mileage which just isn't so. They get ****** mileage too. I own a Duramax a Cummins and a Cat and used to have access to an Diesel Excursion (6.0 as I recall) which got no better mileage than my V10 gas motors. With the Dodge 6.4 I feel like I am at least getting some power from the fuel expense! (PS.... a fuel pump for a Cummins costs around 1500.00 for parts alone and I changed one at 64k miles, which is WAY too early)

Last but not least.......the oil leak. My Ram SRT-10 once spewed oil from the filter housing......Turned out to be an over tightened oil filter which split the gasket (note to self....don't let older brother change oil anymore). These things only need to be hand tight. Leave the filter wrench for removal only.

Thanks for all the good info so far. Keep the info flowing. I will be making my purchase soon I am sure. Been seeing prices of Laramies at around 48k and SLT packages at around 44k. How's that sound for comparative prices?

I swear I even look at the filter to get a reference for 3/4 of a turn past gasket contact, but I guess I *****'d this one.

 

[Brakelate]

I swear I even look at the filter to get a reference for 3/4 of a turn past gasket contact, but I guess I *****'d this one.

So, what are you saying? It was a loose oil filter?

I always go by feel, absolutely reinstalling only by hand.

To 5punksdad, I appreciate your diligence on maintenance, but if you are using any type of Synthetic, you are just throwing $$ away with 3k mile changes. Unless it comes to it being every 5 years or something.

I agree, Mobil 1 is good in anything.

The latest trend of leaving transmissions sealed "for life?" is strange to me. My '07 1500 QC 5.7 4x4 Sport just rolled 100k miles and it's never been cracked open. Same for the rear end, even with LSD. But, the fluid on the stick looks and smells like new.

In regards to the tiny filters coming from trucks out of the factory, it must be a money saving thing. It is completely curable by replacing it on it's first change with a old part number - v-8 worthy - larger filter.

Most oil leak and blowout issues I have seen are a result of someone leaving the original gasket on there, after wrestling off the factory over-tightened unit, then just screwing a new filter on there. Now there are two rubber O Ring gaskets, and it will leak.

And I agree, Diesel is not the "Magic Answer" to large truck MPG that it once was. I also own a Triton V-10 which is a great motor, that just uses fuel. I have also owned a early Dodge 2500 4x4 with the V-10 and it got half the mpg as the Ford V-10 does.

Final Answer; The 5.7 Hemi in a 2500 isn't Overkill. Yet, it isn't woefully underpowered either. It fills a spot that is a happy medium. Now, if the 6.4 can manage to bring more torque to the table, at lower truck-like RPMs while returning similar fuel consumption, we may just have a new winner here.

Time will tell. It's a bit early in the 6.4 Hemi's life cycle to really see how it will play out. Once we get some more of these rigs on the road, in various models and a solid amount of real world miles logged, then we will have the ability to see what numbers it is capable of.

 

[kidwolf908]

I know they are apples and oranges, but I have the 6.4/392 in my 6-speed 2013 Challenger and it is a gahdamm beast of an engine. I only wish my RAM had the same kind of grunt. Don't get me wrong, the 5.7 pulls the 1500 nicely.

I've performed 1 oil change in my 392 using Mobil 1 Full Syn 0w-20 (recommended viscosity). The manual and SRT engineers recommend Pennz Ultimate Full Syn and I may try it at my next change. My 392 makes a substantial amount of lifter noise/hemi tick and I've read that the Pennz has more molybdenum to mitigate that.

 

[Brakelate]

Interesting.

I always have been of the opinion that when Manufacturers recommend (demand) the use of a particular Brand of oil, it is simply due to some back door corporate deal between the vehicle maker and the oil company.

Rarely would I consider the contents of a similar grade of oil being that much different than another, from brand to brand. They all use highly similar additives, with little tweaks here and there. But, if the viscosity is the same, I cannot believe you have to run a recommended brand.

In all my years, and various vehicles, I have mixed and matched and tried all sorts of different combinations. Sometimes out of curiosity, sometime out of availability or even because I could not afford "good" stuff at one time or another.

NEVER have I had a oil related failure. As long as SOMETHING was in there, it was good.

That said, later in life, with more expensive, exotic and high performance engines, in bikes, boats, cars etc . I too, at times have followed crazy, strict and specific oil types, service intervals and recommended brands.

In the few cases I have torn into these things, there is no internal evidence that it hurt anything.

Not like the "old" days, where sludge, bearing materials and all sorts of stuff was found in the pan.

It takes some pretty serious and highly deliberate neglect to damage a motor with oil. As long as something is in there.

I have seen and heard of nightmare scenarios where mechanically inept people have run out motors for VERY long periods with nothing more than topping off the oil. Including my Brother in Laws' old Explorer. 80k or something on it, and it still had the factory oil filter on there!!!!!

Crazy stuff. I think we waste way too much time sweating over the little details that add up to little, if anything in the long run.

But, that is fun. Or a Mental Condition. Or both. But, that is why we are in here, right? Because we can't afford proper mental health care?

 

[Olli]

I know they are apples and oranges, but I have the 6.4/392 in my 6-speed 2013 Challenger and it is a gahdamm beast of an engine. I only wish my RAM had the same kind of grunt. Don't get me wrong, the 5.7 pulls the 1500 nicely.

I've performed 1 oil change in my 392 using Mobil 1 Full Syn 0w-20 (recommended viscosity). The manual and SRT engineers recommend Pennz Ultimate Full Syn and I may try it at my next change. My 392 makes a substantial amount of lifter noise/hemi tick and I've read that the Pennz has more molybdenum to mitigate that.

Are you sure about that 0W20 for your 2013 SRT Challenger?

Interesting that there is no Chrysler MS # requirement in this section.

Here is the page from the 2013 Challenger SRT manual.

Under no circumstances should oil change intervals
exceed 6,000 miles (10 000 km) or six months,
whichever occurs first.
Engine Oil Selection
For best performance and maximum protection under all
types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only
recommends full synthetic engine oils that meet the
American Petroleum Institute (API) categories of SM or
SM/CF.
The manufacturer recommends the use of a full synthetic
SAE 0W-40 engine oil or equivalent.
CAUTION!
Do not use chemical flushes in your engine oil as the
chemicals can damage your engine. Such damage is
not covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Engine Oil Viscosity
SAE 0W-40 Full Synthetic engine oil is preferred for use
in all operating temperatures.
The engine oil filler cap also shows the recommended
engine oil viscosity for your engine. For information on
engine oil filler cap location, refer to “Engine Compartment”
in “Maintaining Your Vehicle” for further information.
Synthetic Engine Oils
You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recommended
oil quality requirements are met, and the recommended
maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes
are followed.
Materials Added To Engine Oil
The manufacturer strongly recommends against the addition
of any additives (other than leak detection dyes) to
7
MAINTAINING YOUR VEHICLE 411

 

[Jonthefireman]

Sorry for the delay, but here is the long and short on the oil blowout.

Picked up the truck from the dealer in Santa Fe yesterday around 1pm. Asked a bunch of questions, but didn't get a bunch of answers other than "it's all fixed". From what I could pry out of them, it was a gasket on the oil cooler. I too crawled under in the parking lot and was really surprised at the size of the oil filter, about 1/2 the size of the filter on my 5.7 Hemi? Interesting. However, I could plainly see where a gasket might have blown out and the repair looked ok. The mech said the bolts on the oil cooler either weren't to spec, or the change in altitude/cold/and load coming down the mountain was just enough to blow it out. Fair enough, it's mechanical and prone to break. Asked if taking it on a 10 hour drive right out the door was ok, got a "shrug" and an "I think so". Great!

So we threw caution to the wind and headed home. A few miles down the road, I noticed the truck just didn't sound right. It truly sounding like a "jet engine" in the lower 3 or 4 gears, like something was running that shouldn't be. I figured it could possibly be a saturated air filter, after all oil was spewed out everywhere. Checked the filter, nope, clean as could be. Then I decided it was likely either the fan clutch or possibly the alternator. Figured they might have ingested a little oil and just needed to burn it all out. Truck was actually running just fine, all temps and pressures were in normal limits.

After a few hundred miles, the noise was still present. I called my salesman back in Austin and asked him to go to the service department and make me a 0700 appointment. He agreed and called me back to confirm. Ironically, after the next fuel/restroom stop, the noise stopped and has not returned since. Even though we got home around 0200, I was at my dealers service department at 0700. I was met promptly and expected.

The service writer went for a ride with me and was spot on the noise I described. He too thought it was likely the fan clutch and when we returned he passed me on to the senior tech. They went through the truck head to toe and made sure the repair in Santa Fe was all good. The tech explained the fan likely came on when the low oil pressure warning occurred to assist in keeping the engine cool. He said it likely took several starts and stops for the fan to reset itself to normal, but he also did not discount the possibility of a little oil saturation that needed to burn off.

Overall, I'm pleased with the response and service from both dealers. I'm not entirely warm and fuzzy about a breakdown with barely 2000 miles, but I'm also not beyond understanding that mechanical things break. I'm mildly regretting my decision not to go diesel, maybe you guys can reassure me and make me feel better!!!

 

[Olli]

I think that it was just a fluke thing and you should be good to go.

Glad to hear how you were taking care of.


Olli

 

[kidwolf908]

Are you sure about that 0W20 for your 2013 SRT Challenger?

Interesting that there is no Chrysler MS # requirement in this section.

Here is the page from the 2013 Challenger SRT manual.

Under no circumstances should oil change intervals
exceed 6,000 miles (10 000 km) or six months,
whichever occurs first.
Engine Oil Selection
For best performance and maximum protection under all
types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only
recommends full synthetic engine oils that meet the
American Petroleum Institute (API) categories of SM or
SM/CF.
The manufacturer recommends the use of a full synthetic
SAE 0W-40 engine oil or equivalent.
CAUTION!
Do not use chemical flushes in your engine oil as the
chemicals can damage your engine. Such damage is
not covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranty.
Engine Oil Viscosity
SAE 0W-40 Full Synthetic engine oil is preferred for use
in all operating temperatures.
The engine oil filler cap also shows the recommended
engine oil viscosity for your engine. For information on
engine oil filler cap location, refer to “Engine Compartment”
in “Maintaining Your Vehicle” for further information.
Synthetic Engine Oils
You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recommended
oil quality requirements are met, and the recommended
maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes
are followed.
Materials Added To Engine Oil
The manufacturer strongly recommends against the addition
of any additives (other than leak detection dyes) to
7
MAINTAINING YOUR VEHICLE 411

My mistake, you are absolutely right and I went back and checked my Amazon order history and sure enough, it's 0W-40. I mis-remembered haha

 

[Olli]

Sorry for the delay, but here is the long and short on the oil blowout.

Picked up the truck from the dealer in Santa Fe yesterday around 1pm. Asked a bunch of questions, but didn't get a bunch of answers other than "it's all fixed". From what I could pry out of them, it was a gasket on the oil cooler. I too crawled under in the parking lot and was really surprised at the size of the oil filter, about 1/2 the size of the filter on my 5.7 Hemi? Interesting. However, I could plainly see where a gasket might have blown out and the repair looked ok. The mech said the bolts on the oil cooler either weren't to spec, or the change in altitude/cold/and load coming down the mountain was just enough to blow it out. Fair enough, it's mechanical and prone to break. Asked if taking it on a 10 hour drive right out the door was ok, got a "shrug" and an "I think so". Great!

So we threw caution to the wind and headed home. A few miles down the road, I noticed the truck just didn't sound right. It truly sounding like a "jet engine" in the lower 3 or 4 gears, like something was running that shouldn't be. I figured it could possibly be a saturated air filter, after all oil was spewed out everywhere. Checked the filter, nope, clean as could be. Then I decided it was likely either the fan clutch or possibly the alternator. Figured they might have ingested a little oil and just needed to burn it all out. Truck was actually running just fine, all temps and pressures were in normal limits.

After a few hundred miles, the noise was still present. I called my salesman back in Austin and asked him to go to the service department and make me a 0700 appointment. He agreed and called me back to confirm. Ironically, after the next fuel/restroom stop, the noise stopped and has not returned since. Even though we got home around 0200, I was at my dealers service department at 0700. I was met promptly and expected.

The service writer went for a ride with me and was spot on the noise I described. He too thought it was likely the fan clutch and when we returned he passed me on to the senior tech. They went through the truck head to toe and made sure the repair in Santa Fe was all good. The tech explained the fan likely came on when the low oil pressure warning occurred to assist in keeping the engine cool. He said it likely took several starts and stops for the fan to reset itself to normal, but he also did not discount the possibility of a little oil saturation that needed to burn off.

Overall, I'm pleased with the response and service from both dealers. I'm not entirely warm and fuzzy about a breakdown with barely 2000 miles, but I'm also not beyond understanding that mechanical things break. I'm mildly regretting my decision not to go diesel, maybe you guys can reassure me and make me feel better!!!

Any description or part #s on the invoice so that we may know exactly what was involved?

Olli

 

[Jonthefireman]

Any description or part #s on the invoice so that we may know exactly what was involved?

Olli

I filed the paperwork and don't have it with me but I'll look at it as soon as I get home on Saturday morning. I do remember part numbers for each item they replaced.

 

[Olli]

That would be great.

How was the truck otherwise on your trip?

Olli

 

[Jonthefireman]

That would be great.

How was the truck otherwise on your trip?

Olli

Until the breakdown....great. I would say mpg averaged around 14, fought a stiff headwind going. Everything else worked flawlessly. Didn't get a chance to try out the 4X4, figured I might actually get into some snow conditions but it was actually warmer in Santa Fe than Austin!

Now my wife, she's not real fond of it. Complains that the passenger seat has less leg room than my 1500, rough ride, too tall, etc. etc. I did ride a few hundred miles and I must admit, she might be right on the passenger leg room? Maybe more Hemi meant less room on that side?

There were occasions where I cursed myself for not going with the CTD, but then I was reminded of the savings at each fill up. I also have to admit, I really don't like the MDS feature and I'm looking forward to one of the programmer companies coming out with a 6.4 model. I bought a Superchips to specifically disable the feature on my 1500, I just can't stand the way it feels/sounds when it drops cylinders. I want to improved the exhaust on this truck, but I know to wait because it will just sound that much louder and worse.

Overall, I'm pleased with the truck and the deal I got. The deal really sweetens everything.

 

[Brakelate]

Thanks for the report. Hopefully this whole event will quickly fade into the distant memory as you get to spend some more time and log some miles with the truck.

I too, get complaints about the entry height from shorter / older passengers. I sort of forget how tall it is and have adopted the run, hop and grab the hand hold to get in method.

Odd about the passenger side legroom issue. I would totally assume them to be the same on all cabs that come off the line. But, I've been wrong before.

IT IS a sweet truck! I sure hope this one experience does not soil you on it for long.

 

[Jonthefireman]

On a different subject, what octane is everyone running? Here in TX, you can usually get 87, 89, and 91 or 93. In my 1500, I had it tuned and ran a 93 performance mod. I was told to just run 87 in the 6.4 but i cant help thinking that 89 might run better.

Any thoughts? I think I might bite the bullet this weekend and have that Magnaflow muffler installed, we'll see how that goes.

 

[WhiteExpress]

Any thoughts? I think I might bite the bullet this weekend and have that Magnaflow muffler installed, we'll see how that goes.

Watch out, from what I can see, the factory exhaust on the 6.4 is 4"!
Not sure that many people carry / sell anything for that!

 

[Donelam304]

I went to a local exhaust shop here where I live and he doesn't carry the 4". I told him I wanted stainless and he doesn't even carry stainless and would have to special order it. I ha e seen way to many MagnaFlow or others just rust away in 2 to 3 years. And when I get a truck. I keep it for a very long time. My last Dodge lasted me 14 years. Lol. And it still had the stock exhaust on it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 (SM-N900V) via taptalk...

 

[Olli]

4" exhaust? Cool. I love Magnaflow products...I did a quick look on their site. It looks like you have to look at the "diesel " mufflers for 4"

The 6.4 is tuned for 87. It is also slightly lower in compression then the 5.7.

Straight from the manual....

FUEL REQUIREMENTS
3.6L/6.4L Engine
These engines are designed to meet all
emissions regulations and provide excellent
fuel economy and performance when
using high quality unleaded “regular”
gasoline having an octane rating of 87. The
use of premium gasoline is not recommended, as it will
not provide any benefit over regular gasoline in these
engines.
5.7L Engines
This engine is designed to meet all emissions
regulations and provide satisfactory
fuel economy and performance when using
high quality unleaded gasoline having
an octane range of 87 to 89. The manufacturer
recommends the use of 89 octane for optimum
performance. The use of premium gasoline is not recommended,
as it will not provide any benefit over regular
gasoline in these engines.
Light spark knock at low engine speeds is not harmful to
your engine. However, continued heavy spark knock at
high speeds can cause damage and immediate service is
required. Poor quality gasoline can cause problems such
as hard starting, stalling, and hesitations. If you experience
these symptoms, try another brand of gasoline
before considering service for the vehicle.
Over 40 auto manufacturer’s world wide have issued and
endorsed consistent gasoline specifications (the Worldwide
Fuel Charter, WWFC) which define fuel properties
necessary to deliver enhanced emissions, performance,
and durability for your vehicle. The manufacturer recommends
the use of gasolines that meet the WWFC specifications,
if they are available.