the "joy" of new lug nuts fyi

[buddy guy]

So after Wild one found some Gorillas with lifetime warranty on Amazon for his 2014 Ram 1500, I ordered some for myself. Amazon said they did not fit on my 2018, but did fit on his. We compared notes and I figured that was an Amazon error as it can happen. both the originals and the Gorillas part #61147 were same specs...kinda. Length, pitch and bulge style..same, buttttt...not in the diameter:





i did try one of the Gorillas and it basically would slip right through. back they go, McGards will be on order soon hopefully. Apparently the Gorillas are a new addition to their line but I haven't found of the new "lifetime" ones with the part # I need...and their cheaper ones as reviewed seem to rust out a bunch. I believe these ones weren't a fit for Ram 1500s starting in 2016. anyway, if it says they don't fit, believe it!

 

[quietpeen]

Yea those would not be good in the long run

 

[KC Cryptkeeper]

I'd sell you 3 McGard lugs and key cheap off my 2015. I didn't have the key when I bought my truck used and destroyed one getting it off over a flat tire but hey you got to do what you got to do.

 

[JB1]

those should have fit but they don’t look like the ones in the website

 

[buddy guy]

yeah i looked at those too and they look a bit different than the amazon site. it took me a bit including looking at the damn things in the light of day, not a dark garage but here's the issue. i don't think holding the wheel on is the problem. it's holding on the cladding of the wheel which clearly the oem Ram lugs are designed to do. i believe when I asked Wild one if his wheels were cladded and he said no. so that would make sense they work on his. Now, I think they will work on mine too, but how safe is it not to have the cladding held down by that rim around the oem lugs? how is the cladding secured to the steel wheel? some kind of adhesive? and then when you took them to a tire shop, possibility they loosen it up? the oems then might be all that holds the cladding on. see this picture and its clear as day. these clad rims and aftermarket lug nuts, at least of the 2 brands i would buy, don't seem to go together:

 

[KC Cryptkeeper]

yeah i looked at those too and they look a bit different than the amazon site. it took me a bit including looking at the damn things in the light of day, not a dark garage but here's the issue. i don't think holding the wheel on is the problem. it's holding on the cladding of the wheel which clearly the oem Ram lugs are designed to do. i believe when I asked Wild one if his wheels were cladded and he said no. so that would make sense they work on his. Now, I think they will work on mine too, but how safe is it not to have the cladding held down by that rim around the oem lugs? how is the cladding secured to the steel wheel? some kind of adhesive? and then when you took them to a tire shop, possibility they loosen it up? the oems then might be all that holds the cladding on. see this picture and its clear as day. these clad rims and aftermarket lug nuts, at least of the 2 brands i would buy, don't seem to go together:

View attachment 173919

All the wheels like this have been cladded for more than 15 years all done with adhesive the lug nuts have nothing to do with holding it on.

 

[misfit77]

Seems like the conical part is too small.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[buddy guy]

All the wheels like this have been cladded for more than 15 years all done with adhesive the lug nuts have nothing to do with holding it on.

as i suspected some adhesive to bond. But...I'm not certain they have "nothing: to do with holding it on. the "flange" is big enough to clamp against the cladding and does do that. Is it necessary to have that flange I guess is the question? It's insurance if nothing else. i don't know why the aftermarket companies wouldn't produce a version that has that flange on it.

If someone knows of a company that sells lug nuts with that flange for our clad wheels, i'd love to look more into it.

 

[buddy guy]

Seems like the conical part is too small.

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that's the other thing. the conical is a bit smaller so the nut seems to sit deeper. i was turning and turning it by hand for much longer than an oem nut. it does sit deeper. the wheel is pretty close to the lug size so there is enough meat to hold the steel wheel, I'm sure. but my concern would be basically relying on simply an adhesive bond to hold that clad cover. can it be broken off against a curb? loosened by vibration over time? My imagination may be getting the best of me, but as I said, if the manufacturers of aftermarkets just made a damn lug that fit like the old ones did I would be happy but I'm not finding it at this point. the McGards, White Knights (which are junk anyway) and Gorillas don't have the flange. maybe its a patent thing. it certainly is a good way for Ram to make extra money if you have to replace swollen nuts with oem nuts due to only one solution. My daughters Escape had the same issue. I was told by a Ford dealership manager that Ford is aware of the issue but will lifetime replace swollen nuts on any vehicle and sometimes even the techs if on the ball an notice that, will simply go ahead and do it during a rotation, etc. I replaced hers with aftermarkets more so because i was concerned if she got a flat and couldn't get a wheel off on the road. and the McGard aftermarkets unlike the Rams, were basically the same as the Ford oems.

 

[Wild one]

My price on the OEM nuts through the dealer is just under 20 bucks a nut Terry.You aren't going to lose the cladding,just ask anybody who's tried to remove the cladding,lol.You over think things way to much lad,lol

 

[Ramm5.7]

If someone knows of a company that sells lug nuts with that flange for our clad wheels, i'd love to look more into it.[/QUOTE]

I bought these off amazon in 17 for my chrome clads
A few rotations, 1 flat and a wheel swap to sport wheels and they still look good!!

 

[KC Cryptkeeper]

as i suspected some adhesive to bond. But...I'm not certain they have "nothing: to do with holding it on. the "flange" is big enough to clamp against the cladding and does do that. Is it necessary to have that flange I guess is the question? It's insurance if nothing else. i don't know why the aftermarket companies wouldn't produce a version that has that flange on it.

If someone knows of a company that sells lug nuts with that flange for our clad wheels, i'd love to look more into it.

Since I used to work in the Ford plant that built F150's I can definitely tell you that the lug nuts don't hold the cladding on. the glue is similar to liquid nail and is fairly thickly applied to the wheel. We had issues with mounting tires to some rims so we took one to the maintenance shop to take the cladding off and do some measurements of thickness and bead height. All tires mounted to wheels in all auto plants are spun to 60 mph before they even are balanced right after being mounted and they are only sitting on a spindle turning them no lug nuts or anything else holding the wheel on. On the average an automotive plant tire shop builds 350-400 tires mounted balanced and ready to install per hour.

 

[buddy guy]

thx for that. unfortunately no sellers for them in Canada. and I think I'm done ordering online unless I can definitely find a set that look like mine. hard to see how they fit compared to my stock in your pictures. top picture looks like my wheels but i can't see the fitment? bottom one looks like a different wheel and a totally different type fitment than mine. like the holes are smaller? i can't see those lug nuts sticking that far out of my wheels like they do in yours. with the 22mm hex the post is probably bigger like the oems but still the flanges don't look near as large as mine. my guess is i would have the same problem securing the cladding to my satisfaction. can't tell from these pics if they are secured. i think what i might need to do is take a lug nut and compare it to various ones. hell, i was by a ford f150 today and wondered if those would be a better fit than the aftermarkets, but they were probably stock 2 piece as well. by the way, the OEMs apparently are made by Dorman. the same part number as the oems was a cross reference and they were said to be oem. but 9 bucks U.S. a piece, to buy the same crap? worth searching alternatives i guess.

 

[buddy guy]

Since I used to work in the Ford plant that built F150's I can definitely tell you that the lug nuts don't hold the cladding on. the glue is similar to liquid nail and is fairly thickly applied to the wheel. We had issues with mounting tires to some rims so we took one to the maintenance shop to take the cladding off and do some measurements of thickness and bead height. All tires mounted to wheels in all auto plants are spun to 60 mph before they even are balanced right after being mounted and they are only sitting on a spindle turning them no lug nuts or anything else holding the wheel on. On the average an automotive plant tire shop builds 350-400 tires mounted balanced and ready to install per hour.

thx for this. i hear what you are saying and if i understand your're saying that ford (and maybe Ram) are not relying on the lug nuts to hold the cladding on in addition to the bonding. But relying or not, the fact is the flange on the oem does contact a fair bit of edge on the cladding, so intentionally or not, its a backup to the glue. you can see in my pics that the gorillas almost fill the hole but not quite. and then if you look at my picture of the 2 taken from the top, not only is there a flange but the cone is bigger as well, never mind the addition of the flange. I'm finicky about this stuff so i'll stick with stock, find aftermarkets that are a better fit or buy new wheels. i'll worry about them all the time otherwise. maybe part of it is i've never had clad wheels before so i have no trust that they can't break apart.

 

[Wild one]

Catch the Snap-on guy when you see him and buy one of their double sockets Terry,one end is 22mm the other end is 22.5 mm,that'll let you remove the OEM nuts even if they swell on you,after that you'll have to step up to a 23 mm socket,but that shouldn't be for a few years unless you're removing the wheels on a weekly basis,then you might want to replace the oem wheel nuts yearly

 

[Ramm5.7]

Found an old 17 pic at install on chrome clads!

 

[buddy guy]

cool. i see him or the Mac truck guy around the corner every once in awhile near work at the dealerships. that's a good idea. a lot cheaper than buying new wheels. the Fords btw have been known to get so swollen they just spin on the steel nut underneath apparently...or maybe people are using too big a wrench on them. i find it hard to believe the top is anything more than a thin shell. but i can tell you when i changed my daughters (and not having a .5 size bigger to play with) hers on her 2015 escape with only 45,000KM were so bad that i could turn the caps on the steel nuts under. thats where i really got concerned because i could not only not get the right socket to work (19mm I believe) but i was checking the tightness of her lugs after changing out her seasonal tires and some of them were spinning and i thought they were stripped or not tight. i could actually use my fingers to turn the cap back and forth a 1/4 to 1/2 a turn with my fingers.

 

[buddy guy]

Found an old 17 pic at install on chrome clads!

View attachment 174002

thx for the pic. that looks to me like that one gorilla on mine. like it's sitting right within the hole. same issue i have. except it seems i'm the only person who has the issue with the cladding not being secured by a nut as well as glue. lol

 

[buddy guy]

https://www.amazon.com/CTA-Tools-4222-Socket-22-5mm/dp/B01D4QBHZS

buggers. referenced even for ram lug nuts and mention of swollen lug nuts in reviews. these damn lug nuts are another way to sell more razor blades, basically.

 

[Ramm5.7]

thx for the pic. that looks to me like that one gorilla on mine. like it's sitting right within the hole. same issue i have. except it seems i'm the only person who has the issue with the cladding not being secured by a nut as well as glue. lol

All I can say about that is I have had this setup for 1 3/4 years with absolutely NO issues with the cladding!
Full disclosure is the WhytRam is normally a pavement princess with a bit of construction and dirt road driving