The things nightmares are made of...

[nateinva]

Some of you guys have followed my recent posts. Two weeks ago got a misfire on #3. Did the simple stuff and changed plugs/swapped coil pack/cleared codes. The misfire came back before I drove 100 yards. Oh $#@

In less than 1000 miles the truck developed a metal on metal tapping and became undrivable.

So here's the good stuff....failed lifter on #3 and resulting damage...pics attached, and check out #1 starting to get in on the action.

No way in hell I was going to replace the cam with stock so went to Moe's and ordered the HPT cam, install kit with new springs and replaced all lifters (non MDS). Also tossed in JBA shorties for good measure. I didn't go LTs due to simplicity and budget (or complete lack thereof). The heads had to come off and it was a good time to ditch the stock manifolds.

This happened at 138k miles. Prior to this I've done all my regular oil changes 5k - 7k intervals, but due to weather most recently had a shop do the change. All my changes were Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 and WIX or Boss filter....never any problems.

Two weeks prior to lifter failure the shop changed my oil with Wild Wolf 5w20 Synthetic....not sure on filter. Trying not to draw conclusions......


Now everything is back together and she's a beast. PUP 5w30 from here on out and it'll be a couple very short OCIs to get rid of any remaining shavings that might be circulating. Also put a strong magnet on the oil filter to help catch anything.

In all, this cost me $3k in parts and $2k in labor. Labor included header install, some extra cleanup/parts, milling the heads, etc. If you ever deal with this, might as well figure on replacing the timing chain, the oil pump and the water pump if not done recently. Plus all the required gaskets and new head bolts. My guy that did all the work is Kevin Simpson in Central Virginia. He is awesome and if you ever need someone in this area I highly recommend him for any performance related work. He's done custom engine builds his entire life.

Any questions just shoot a reply.

 

[chrisp2493]

Was it an MDS lifter that failed?

 

[Hemi395]

Damn man that sucks. I still say 5w20 is way too thin for these Hemis. If you're going to run PUP, consider replacing 2-3 quarts with the 0w40 SRT oil to add some moly.

 

[R.L.K.]

Damn man sorry for you .
I hope you never run 20 wt oil again !

I agree with Hemi above mix a couple qts of the SRT 40 wt PUP in with the PUP 5W-30 for the added Molybdenum .

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[chrisbh17]

That stinks, but at least its back together!

It seems the lifter roller fails first? Then just ends up digging into the cam lobe(s). I would think MDS doesnt really matter at that point...all of the lifters use needle bearings for the rollers, dont they?

Things like this make me want the lifetime MaxCare on my truck, but then I cant have any fun with mods!

 

[Hemi395]

How bad was the cam swap to do? Did you have the head surface machined?

 

[chrisbh17]

Fixing this wouldnt be so bad if we didnt have to remove the darn heads to do it! I mean it could almost be preventative maintenance at that point...hit 100K? New cam and lifters regardless.

But removing the heads is like shipping and tax....kills the deal!

 

[Wild one]

How bad was the cam swap to do? Did you have the head surface machined?

Kurtis has a pretty indepth how-to for a cam swap. It's not all that hard,just time consuming.3 of us did my cam/lifter and spring swap in less then 8 hours,but Kurtis and our buddy Dylan(who can do hemi cam swaps in his sleep) are both very well versed in the job,and had the required tools to do the job,me I just got in the way.

http://www.ramforum.com/threads/how-to-4th-gen-hemi-cam-installation.82531/

 

[Ramnewbie]

Some of you guys have followed my recent posts. Two weeks ago got a misfire on #3. Did the simple stuff and changed plugs/swapped coil pack/cleared codes. The misfire came back before I drove 100 yards. Oh $#@

In less than 1000 miles the truck developed a metal on metal tapping and became undrivable.

So here's the good stuff....failed lifter on #3 and resulting damage...pics attached, and check out #1 starting to get in on the action.

No way in hell I was going to replace the cam with stock so went to Moe's and ordered the HPT cam, install kit with new springs and replaced all lifters (non MDS). Also tossed in JBA shorties for good measure. I didn't go LTs due to simplicity and budget (or complete lack thereof). The heads had to come off and it was a good time to ditch the stock manifolds.

This happened at 138k miles. Prior to this I've done all my regular oil changes 5k - 7k intervals, but due to weather most recently had a shop do the change. All my changes were Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 and WIX or Boss filter....never any problems.

Two weeks prior to lifter failure the shop changed my oil with Wild Wolf 5w20 Synthetic....not sure on filter. Trying not to draw conclusions......


Now everything is back together and she's a beast. PUP 5w30 from here on out and it'll be a couple very short OCIs to get rid of any remaining shavings that might be circulating. Also put a strong magnet on the oil filter to help catch anything.

In all, this cost me $3k in parts and $2k in labor. Labor included header install, some extra cleanup/parts, milling the heads, etc. If you ever deal with this, might as well figure on replacing the timing chain, the oil pump and the water pump if not done recently. Plus all the required gaskets and new head bolts. My guy that did all the work is Kevin Simpson in Central Virginia. He is awesome and if you ever need someone in this area I highly recommend him for any performance related work. He's done custom engine builds his entire life.

Any questions just shoot a reply.

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View attachment 123018

Not going to get into the argument of 5/20 Vs 5/30 but I would be concerned about that wild wolf oil as to what it really is. Tried googling it and nothing, closest thing is wolfs head which is owned by amilie.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[RysRam]

I was of the opinion that these cam failures were due to oiling and or **** valve springs. But that first lobe isn't spalled or fried....that lobe looks like it has a big old patch of porosity in the casting.

How did the lifter from that lobe look? This **** freaks me out lol.

 

[Ramnewbie]

That stinks, but at least its back together!

It seems the lifter roller fails first? Then just ends up digging into the cam lobe(s). I would think MDS doesnt really matter at that point...all of the lifters use needle bearings for the rollers, dont they?

Things like this make me want the lifetime MaxCare on my truck, but then I cant have any fun with mods!

The bad thing about warranty repairs is that they only fix exactly what has failed, nothing else. Instead of doing the job right by replacing all the lifters and cam they would try replacing 1 or 2 lifters and if it makes it out the door they view that as success. If you've got you're engine that far down do it right the first time.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[nateinva]

Was it an MDS lifter that failed?

Nope...non mds lifter, and most of them are.

 

[nateinva]

Damn man that sucks. I still say 5w20 is way too thin for these Hemis. If you're going to run PUP, consider replacing 2-3 quarts with the 0w40 SRT oil to add some moly.

Thanks, I mentioned ramforum and discussions on moly. As soon as I said the magic word he showed me the product he carries called Sheaffers. He's a believer too in everything he builds.

Good info for next change.

 

[nateinva]

Damn man sorry for you .
I hope you never run 20 wt oil again !

I agree with Hemi above mix a couple qts of the SRT 40 wt PUP in with the PUP 5W-30 for the added Molybdenum .

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Thanks RLK

 

[nateinva]

That stinks, but at least its back together!

It seems the lifter roller fails first? Then just ends up digging into the cam lobe(s). I would think MDS doesnt really matter at that point...all of the lifters use needle bearings for the rollers, dont they?

Things like this make me want the lifetime MaxCare on my truck, but then I cant have any fun with mods!

Some of the lifters we rolled across our knuckles were starting to feel pretty rough

That stinks, but at least its back together!

It seems the lifter roller fails first? Then just ends up digging into the cam lobe(s). I would think MDS doesnt really matter at that point...all of the lifters use needle bearings for the rollers, dont they?

Things like this make me want the lifetime MaxCare on my truck, but then I cant have any fun with mods!

Yep, several of the lifters felt rough when rolling across the knuckle. Only a few of the felt like they really should...silky smooth.

 

[nateinva]

How bad was the cam swap to do? Did you have the head surface machined?

I let a mechanic do it...too much for me as a driveway job. The heads needed to be machined. One of them wasn't sealed good and you could follow the poor seal by water/rust where it shouldn't be. That's completely fixed now...lol

I wish I could've sprung for new heads in all this, too much........

 

[nateinva]

Kurtis has a pretty indepth how-to for a cam swap. It's not all that hard,just time consuming.3 of us did my cam/lifter and spring swap in less then 8 hours,but Kurtis and our buddy Dylan(who can do hemi cam swaps in his sleep) are both very well versed in the job,and had the required tools to do the job,me I just got in the way.

http://www.ramforum.com/threads/how-to-4th-gen-hemi-cam-installation.82531/

This is an awesome guide and what this site is all about.

 

[nateinva]

Not going to get into the argument of 5/20 Vs 5/30 but I would be concerned about that wild wolf oil as to what it really is. Tried googling it and nothing, closest thing is wolfs head which is owned by amilie.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Sorry to all, wolf's head is correct! We have a brewer here called Wild Wolf. Doh.....still ****** house brand oil unless anyone knows different.

 

[nateinva]

I was of the opinion that these cam failures were due to oiling and or **** valve springs. But that first lobe isn't spalled or fried....that lobe looks like it has a big old patch of porosity in the casting.

How did the lifter from that lobe look? This **** freaks me out lol.

I haven't seen pics online of the actual damaged cams until posting this. I see the same thing you do with the cam and porosity.

I didn't save the other lifters. Just a souvenir from #3.

 

[Fergusontd]

I'd be suspicious of the oil change. You did your changes with no problem using the same oil and filters. Going to that different oil and filter I'd be suspect of the quality and the shop personal that put it in.