Tires for Towing (yes, another tire thread)

[corneileous]

P tires don’t belong on a truck. Even a half ton. I traded mine for a set of BF Goodrich KO’s before I got home with my new Longhorn last summer

A half ton these days is hardly a truck anymore, just sayin.


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[RLJ10X]

^Ir it's not a truck, what is a 1500?

 

[corneileous]

^Ir it's not a truck, what is a 1500?

Anymore, pretty much just an SUV with a pickup bed. Is it not obvious? The HD’s use bigger axles, stronger transmissions, stronger drive-lines, stronger U joints, stronger transfer cases, stronger frames, heavier wheels, heavier bracing.... heavier/stronger/stouter everything. Sure, the 1500’s have great tow ratings but if you think about it, do you really think they’re built for heavy use like that? Maybe I’m wrong but half-tons ain’t trucks no more than a large SUV is. They’re made for traveling, gettin’ groceries, a night out on the town, takin’ the kids to school, droppin’ them off for soccer practice, yada yada yada.


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[smiley]

Anymore, pretty much just an SUV with a pickup bed. Is it not obvious? The HD’s use bigger axles, stronger transmissions, stronger drive-lines, stronger U joints, stronger transfer cases, stronger frames, heavier wheels, heavier bracing.... heavier/stronger/stouter everything. Sure, the 1500’s have great tow ratings but if you think about it, do you really think they’re built for heavy use like that? Maybe I’m wrong but half-tons ain’t trucks no more than a large SUV is. They’re made for traveling, gettin’ groceries, a night out on the town, takin’ the kids to school, droppin’ them off for soccer practice, yada yada yada.


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I don’t really agree. Look at what a 1500 can tow now days confidently 10k. My 79 F250 was rated for 6200.

Look at this chart from 77 for example. They were rated terrible now a lot of that was likely steering control and brakes. Mine doesn’t have a front sway bar and it is noticeable.

 

[corneileous]

I don’t really agree. Look at what a 1500 can tow now days confidently 10k. My 79 F250 was rated for 6200.

Look at this chart from 77 for example. They were rated terrible now a lot of that was likely steering control and brakes. Mine doesn’t have a front sway bar and it is noticeable.

I respect that you don’t agree but you can’t just go off tow ratings, man. Tow ratings don’t define what’s a “truck”. How tough a truck is, is what defines a “truck”. How a “truck” is built, is was does that. Hell, why do you think these “truck’s” are coming from the factories with passenger tires?

I don’t think I need to say more.


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[corneileous]

And just to add to that, even the transfer cases that are automatic aren’t even designed for off-road use in mind. Even the corporate limited slips in the rear diffs- even those are for nothing more than getting you out of your driveway. I’m not sure about the OE limited slips on the HD’s but I would imagine those would be far better suited for than just an icy driveway aid in the winter.

Or how about this, if the 1500 was that more of a truck and not just a glorified SUV with a truck bed then why was the Power Wagon in all its capable glory not built on a 1500 chassis rather than a HD 3/4-ton? Sure, the Rebel 1500 is a little bit more off-road ready but what, basically 10-ply tires and a non-auto transfer case make it a true off-road machine? I’m thinkin’ not.

Edited to add:

How ‘bout this too- you say that F250 you had back in the day that could only tow what, 7,000 pounds or whatever it was? I’m just curious but what was the curb weight of that truck? What kind of power did it make? How much weight/power was the transmission rated to? What about the wheels? Rear end, axles? What did it have for gear ratios?

I could see how it could be over looked but think about it, take my 18 1500 for example; it’s got the Hemi, and it has the 3.92 rear-ends. My truck with the 3.21’s is only capable of 7,500 pounds max trailer weight. It’s lighter than that Ford and not only that, probably has a ton more power, too. And probably has a lot lower gears as well. I’m just guessing. Even the 1500 Eco Diesel can’t tow what the Hemi can.

Why do you think one-ton dually’s are crossing into that realm of CDL territory if you load them up to their capacity? Everything’s better in that sense for the most part from their predecessors but that don’t make them tougher. Even 1500’s back in the day you could work them, play with them off-road and not destroy them. A modern half-ton, I wouldn’t unless you did a butt load of modifications.

All in all, just because it’s tow ratings are higher, don’t mean it’s more of a truck.

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[smiley]

I respect that you don’t agree but you can’t just go off tow ratings, man. Tow ratings don’t define what’s a “truck”. How tough a truck is, is what defines a “truck”. How a “truck” is built, is was does that. Hell, why do you think these “truck’s” are coming from the factories with passenger tires?

I don’t think I need to say more.


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Tow ratings are based of what they can handle without throwing codes or being unsafe. Vehicles today are better than ever before. They are more complicated as well which can be an issue. Think of the engines. 100k used to be rebuild time. Now you are often looking at 2-250k without breaking a sweat. I am required to run LT tires on my 250 but come on the thing is a ***** compared to even my Yukon XL in ability to do work. Passenger tires allow for smoother ride and for people that never even exceed 6000 pounds much less approach max tow they do allow more comfort and better mpg. I prefer LT tires myself but just saying they certainly are not required assuming pressures are managed as directed.

Old steel is and was better I’ll give you that.

 

[smiley]

Reliability in today’s rigs is light years better and to me that is a mark of being tough. Sure you can smash it into rocks or anything but I do think vehicles are tougher but more refined and that is sometimes misconstrued. Ram like other manufacturers have made vehicles that last longer, get better mpg (mostly), and can do more than ever before but they did so by raising the price to absurd levels that I personally refuse to pay. That is why I have old stuff not because I think it is better but I simple can’t see trading my retirement money to drive something nicer.

I do see where you are coming from though.

 

[corneileous]

Tow ratings are based of what they can handle without throwing codes or being unsafe. Vehicles today are better than ever before. They are more complicated as well which can be an issue. Think of the engines. 100k used to be rebuild time. Now you are often looking at 2-250k without breaking a sweat. I am required to run LT tires on my 250 but come on the thing is a ***** compared to even my Yukon XL in ability to do work. Passenger tires allow for smoother ride and for people that never even exceed 6000 pounds much less approach max tow they do allow more comfort and better mpg. I prefer LT tires myself but just saying they certainly are not required assuming pressures are managed as directed.

Old steel is and was better I’ll give you that.

Yeah but what’ll last longer doing it- that old Ford of yours or that Yukon?? That’s my point.

There’s nothing wrong with LT tires like that but for some to say P-rated tires not belonging on a halfton pickup is absurd. LT tires will probably give you a stiffer and more secure ride back there but they certainly aren’t needed to pull/haul what that 1500 is capable of.

The old steel is, probably because it was more pure and not mixed in with a bunch of recycled steel but here’s the thing- that old steel was made to be tough and not give or bend. Nowadays, manufacturers want you to be able to survive a crash and live to talk about it.


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[corneileous]

Reliability in today’s rigs is light years better and to me that is a mark of being tough. Sure you can smash it into rocks or anything but I do think vehicles are tougher but more refined and that is sometimes misconstrued. Ram like other manufacturers have made vehicles that last longer, get better mpg (mostly), and can do more than ever before but they did so by raising the price to absurd levels that I personally refuse to pay. That is why I have old stuff not because I think it is better but I simple can’t see trading my retirement money to drive something nicer.

I do see where you are coming from though.

It’s all in how you take care of it. Back then, they didn’t really require that. Today, not so much the case unless you take care of it and don’t mistreat it. Could I have taken my old 08 that I had when I joined here and treated it the way I did my old 98 back in the day? Probably but I know for a fact that it wouldn’t have faired near as well as my old gen 2 with that solid front axle. I took that thing bone stock over some of the baddest Jeep trails in southwestern Colorado that woulda ate my old truck for lunch. Out of all the places I drove that thing, only that corporate LSD was what failed me because it wasn’t designed for that.

I’m glad you see where I’m coming from but I still just think that if you want something heavy duty in the sense that you can throw a lot more at it and not tear it up that there’s a reason why the bigger trucks are heavy duty and not the halftons.


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[RLJ10X]

In 1994 Dodge changed the pick up truck world forever. It made trucks more about hauling people than hauling stuff. So calling a 1500 a big SUV is a little bit of a slam, I do see your point.

But compared the the Mack tractor I drive at work, your 2500 could be called a big SUV, also. Can you even get a manual transmission in a new 2500? I rest my case. Lol. It's all in your perspective. I had an '88, and a'99 Dakota before I got my "Big" 1500. Dakotas were great little trucks.

Ill bet not many truck buyers want a straight front axle anymore. They don't want leaf springs, or any of that old crap. Yeah, you can get a straight front axle in the Wrangler pick up. But those things don't exactly get rave reviews when it comes to handling. My 2014 Wrangler wanders all over the road.

Did truck buyers change truck manufacturers? Or did truck manufacturers change truck buyer? Really doesn't matter. There's no going back.

My 410 HP, 410 lb ft, 4.10 geared 1500 thinks it's a TRUCK. And I agree.

 

[corneileous]

In 1994 Dodge changed the pick up truck world forever. It made trucks more about hauling people than hauling stuff. So calling a 1500 a big SUV is a little bit of a slam, I do see your point.

See, it’s funny you say that because my 98 Ram 1500 QC 4x4 felt like the “most” truck I’ve ever had, a lot more than my 18 and my old 08 that I had before. I did a lot more stuff in that truck and took it places that I wouldn’t dream of taking these two.

But compared the the Mack tractor I drive at work, your 2500 could be called a big SUV, also. Can you even get a manual transmission in a new 2500? I rest my case. Lol. It's all in your perspective. I had an '88, and a'99 Dakota before I got my "Big" 1500. Dakotas were great little trucks.

Ill bet not many truck buyers want a straight front axle anymore. They don't want leaf springs, or any of that old crap. Yeah, you can get a straight front axle in the Wrangler pick up. But those things don't exactly get rave reviews when it comes to handling. My 2014 Wrangler wanders all over the road.

I guess that could be a bit of a slam but I didn’t know of any other way to prover that point. Besides, large SUVs are pretty capable as well so if you look at it in that sense, it really isn’t a slam.

It’s not a “perspective” thing at all when you go comparing a damn semi to a pickup, especially when one tons are getting into that realm of needing a CDL to pull something that puts their combined weight at 34,000 pounds or more so even that comparison is a little bit just not the same. Not to mention the fact that since bone stock diesels have punched through the 1000-ft pound barrier, big trucks are slowly gettin’ to be not needed on certain things.

And it’s half-tons we’re talking about, trucks that in a sense went the opposite direction from the HD’s.

Dakota’s were great little trucks, I had two- a 96 that it and that 318 could move a mountain and the 04. Problem is, they were a little bit too great which is what led to their demise. They weren’t too much cheaper than a 1500 and could almost do the same work.

Did truck buyers change truck manufacturers? Or did truck manufacturers change truck buyer? Really doesn't matter. There's no going back.

I think the consumer is the one who changed the half-ton line. More people started buying pickups for other stuff than work so over the years, this is where we’ve evolved to. Why do you think trucks are the most popular choice at dealerships?

My 410 HP, 410 lb ft, 4.10 geared 1500 thinks it's a TRUCK. And I agree.

Obviously modified doesn’t count because my stock Limited with it’s P rated tires, it’s virtually worthless auto-transfer case and limited slip diff for off-roading doesn’t share that opinion. Can it pull? Sure. I’ve verified this. Pulled a buddy’s mustang on a fairly large and heavy flat bed like it was nothin’. But would I treat it like a work truck? Hell no. And I’m not just saying that because of it’s trim level.


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[rvance]

What was the size of your E rated KO/2’s? At what pressure did you run? I mean, like I always say, I know this is all subjective because everybody’s opinion when it comes to how smooth their truck rides on whatever set of tires is purely different from one person to the next but how can you say those E rated tires rode and handled so much better than your factory stock GoodYears? Even my P rated Michelin defenders don’t ride as smooth as the factory-stock good years I had but how can you say they rode better and handled better all in the same sentence when my experience with an eight ply of that tire was way different?

The only way I could ever get better handling, braking and cornering was the air the tires up to what BFG said to air them up to but the ride quality really went out the window at that point..... and the only way to get the tires to ride even remotely close to as smooth as the goodyears did was to air them back down to 39 pounds of pressure but at that point, they didn’t handle, brake and corner worth a ****. They seriously felt like they were extremely under- inflated and not to mention, on a really long drive they seem to have gotten a lot hotter than usual and on a hot summer day, the pressure would go up dramatically from 39 cold to about 45, 46 psi hot so even that right there was a sign that the tires were under-inflated.

But camper shell or not, I wouldn’t think you’ve got your trailer loaded properly if it only weighs 2800 pounds and you’ve got over 500 pounds of tongue weight.


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First, let me say "bite me" because of your tone. Second, the E rated KO2s were the same size as stock and inflated to 42 lbs when not towing, and 44 when towing.
The stock tires were absolutely crap for everything except mileage.
My trailer is a single axle and has a 300 lb tongue weight when empty. It is hard to load it because of the axel being so far back without having excess tongue weight. It works fine for what we use it for. No swaying at all.

 

[corneileous]

First, let me say "bite me" because of your tone. Second, the E rated KO2s were the same size as stock and inflated to 42 lbs when not towing, and 44 when towing.
The stock tires were absolutely crap for everything except mileage.
My trailer is a single axle and has a 300 lb tongue weight when empty. It is hard to load it because of the axel being so far back without having excess tongue weight. It works fine for what we use it for. No swaying at all.

LOL, what tone? I don’t have any tone, I’m just expressing what I feel just like everybody else is but if you like them heavy rough riding things then fine, it’s your truck.

But why the such aggravated tone from you? Sorry if you think I **** a little in your wheaties but what did you expect someone to say when you practically said that your E rated BFG’s rode better than the GoodYears?? I find that awful ludicrous because even the eight ply version of the BFG’s I had beat me to death. Granted, I was running a lot more tire pressure than you are because that’s what I was advised to do by BFG. But I also gave you benefit of the doubt because I wouldn’t sure if you were talking when your truck was empty by itself or if this was when you were towing your trailer.

Since your trailer’s single axle is so far back there and that you’ve got that much tongue weight even when it’s empty, do you run a weight distribution hitch for the trailer? Or well, maybe not a weight distribution hitch but do you have any kind of helper springs back there? Might wanna invest in some.


Good luck to ya pal.


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[smiley]

Goodyear tires are terrible. I had Wrangler HP and I would agree the BFG KO AND KO2 both road better. Goodyear are like rocks. Cheap junk tires.

 

[rvance]

LOL, what tone? I don’t have any tone, I’m just expressing what I feel just like everybody else is but if you like them heavy rough riding things then fine, it’s your truck.

But why the such aggravated tone from you? Sorry if you think I **** a little in your wheaties but what did you expect someone to say when you practically said that your E rated BFG’s rode better than the GoodYears?? I find that awful ludicrous because even the eight ply version of the BFG’s I had beat me to death. Granted, I was running a lot more tire pressure than you are because that’s what I was advised to do by BFG. But I also gave you benefit of the doubt because I wouldn’t sure if you were talking when your truck was empty by itself or if this was when you were towing your trailer.

Since your trailer’s single axle is so far back there and that you’ve got that much tongue weight even when it’s empty, do you run a weight distribution hitch for the trailer? Or well, maybe not a weight distribution hitch but do you have any kind of helper springs back there? Might wanna invest in some.


Good luck to ya pal.


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In my experience, the KO2s E rated rode as smooth and handled better than the factory tires. The D rated Michelin tires rode and handled better than the factory tires. The Iron Man tires that came on my 17 QC do everything better than the factory tires. In my humble opinion. You just can't tell me that my experience is not what I experienced.
I have Airlift 1000s on the back of both trucks. I assure you that the KO2s never beat me up in the regular cab. Your experience may be different. I put some of the 8ply Pathfinder tires from Discount on my 87 Trooper so I certainly know what being beaten up in a truck is like and I was young then. I also put 2 sizes over KO2s on Suzuki Samarai (C range) and it rode better than the OEM tires. I'm almost 70, but I still probably have forgotten more about tires than most people know. I haven't lost it yet.

 

[rvance]

PS
It's pretty stupid to run 65 pounds when you only need 42 for the weight you are running. And I won't even start on asking someone who works for a tire dealer for advice. Those tires would have been just fine if you had run the recommended pressure.

 

[corneileous]

In my experience, the KO2s E rated rode as smooth and handled better than the factory tires. The D rated Michelin tires rode and handled better than the factory tires. The Iron Man tires that came on my 17 QC do everything better than the factory tires. In my humble opinion. You just can't tell me that my experience is not what I experienced.
I have Airlift 1000s on the back of both trucks. I assure you that the KO2s never beat me up in the regular cab. Your experience may be different. I put some of the 8ply Pathfinder tires from Discount on my 87 Trooper so I certainly know what being beaten up in a truck is like and I was young then. I also put 2 sizes over KO2s on Suzuki Samarai (C range) and it rode better than the OEM tires. I'm almost 70, but I still probably have forgotten more about tires than most people know. I haven't lost it yet.

I never was saying your experience wasn’t what you said your experience was, I just said I found it hard to believe. But then again, there’s very very many different definitions of what who would consider a smooth ride. ****, you coulda probably thought I was smokin’ the whacky weed when I said them D-rated 8-ply BFGS I had was making pebbles feel like billiards balls if you woulda been able to ride in my truck when I had them but to me, they were a mistake.

But whatever, I may be far from a tire guru but I ain’t totally naive either. How’s the saying go; I may have been born at night but it wasn’t last night...[emoji41]


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[corneileous]

PS
It's pretty stupid to run 65 pounds when you only need 42 for the weight you are running. And I won't even start on asking someone who works for a tire dealer for advice. Those tires would have been just fine if you had run the recommended pressure.

I’m pretty sure you’re referring to me so if you’re not, I apologize but if ya are, I never ran those BFG’s at 65 psi. The most I ran them up to was 55, them immediately down to 50 for awhile because that was the lesser of the 55 preferred with 50 being the minimum.

And it wasn’t a tire dealer who told me to do that; it was a representative from BFG.

But just to carry this on, are you really telling me it woulda been ok to run a LT 8-ply at 39psi?? Really? Did I really step on your toes that hard to recommend such an unsafe thing?Even I myself have enough common sense to know that wasn’t a smart thing to do.

At 39 they were actually fairly smooth but they felt really spongy. They still right away were not running as smooth as the GoodYears that I had just taken off but, not bad. Over the next couple of months when we started to transition outta late winter to spring and early summer was when they were really feeling like sponges once the weather warmed up. Even under fairly somewhat hard braking, you could almost hear a faint howling of the front tires. Steering and hard cornering felt a lot looser as well. Oh, and tire pressures climbed significantly from 39 cold to 45, 46 pounds so I know they were running just a little warm, too.

Then I decided to call up BFG- 50 was just too damn much for a practically empty truck but long story short, before I decided to get rid of the damn things for some much better tires, 47 in the front and about 43,44 in the back was what felt like the best compromise I was gonna find between a somewhat smooth ride and decent handling, cornering, braking and accelerating.


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[Gr8bawana]

Let us all bow down to corneieous. He knows more about us and how we use our trucks than we do.