When to do first oil change on new truck and which oil to use.
- Thread starter corneileous
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corneileous
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You’re right, they can’t, but they can attempt to make your life miserable by using their word against yours saying that the “other than OEM” part was the cause of the claim...
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Rampant
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Yep. If you're afraid of that, I'd stick to using what they recommend, although it is an inferior product to many others repeatedly mentioned around here.
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corneileous
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Well I tell ya, I don’t wanna be afraid, I don’t like feeling like I should be afraid, and I don’t like that they seem to have figured out a way to kind of circumvent that Magnusen Moss Act by bending it around and saying that even though us consumers may be protected by an initial warranty forfeiture by doing something not warranty compliant but, if they say and win the case by proving your modification caused the issue, you’re SOL...
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corneileous
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You still under warranty? Have a lifetime warranty like me? I can’t remember if you’ve ever said you are under any warranty at all but as you probably already know, I’m gonna be under a lifetime warranty on mine so I’m kind of at a disadvantage of running outlaw....
If you’re out of warranty, you can pretty much do whatever you want because irregardless of what happens; it may never happen but if it does, it’s your wallet that foots the bill for it...
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Rampant
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Yes, I'm still under factory warranty but I do not have extended or lifetime. I fully understand the possible implications of my decision and am willing to lawyer-up if the need arises. I wouldn't pay for either warranty because I meticulously document and maintain my own vehicles and am capable of replacing an engine or anything else if I need to, should I cause it's failure. That, and I just generally don't trust anyone with my vehicles.
I'm at 32k and my truck has never been to a dealer. I've fixed a few minor things myself already because I prefer not to go to a dealer. Its not worth my time or the stress of it all. I will take it in for software updates and the two recalls on it before 36k just because they are free until then, but that's it.
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corneileous
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I feel a lot like the way you do but my issue is that “what if” part, along with the extremely high cost of repairs, should they ever arise. I don’t know about you but I’m not financially prepared to stick a new motor between the frame-rails, or pay for a transmission if anything happens to any part of my truck so I would prefer them pay for it. I mean after all, I am basically paying for an insurance policy just for that. If my regular warranty was going to run out someday eventually, I’d probably be a lot more assertive and be a lot more willing take my chances like you but as long as I follow the so-called rules, any repairs is on their dime for a very long time to come.
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Rampant
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The other thing is, I usually have 5 or more running vehicles at any given time and I don't tend to keep most of them longer than 5 yrs or so. I like to use certain vehicles for certain things. I also flip a few vehicles a year for fun. Everyone's situations are different. If I had to depend on one vehicle and wasn't able or willing to to fix my own, I'm sure my attitude toward the whole thing would be completely different.
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corneileous
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I hear ya but I bought this truck for the long run so hopefully I’ll still be driving it ten years from now or at least long enough to surpass that hideous new design...[emoji41]
For the record tho, I do like doing my own repairs but when it comes to that really expensive stuff, I’m not set up, don’t have the facilities, nor do I have really the knowhow to tackle that...lol.
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HammerHead
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Oil Viscosity is an important decision when choosing your oil, regardless of oil brand. Because all engines are constructed with “very specific” clearances between internal engine components. Those clearances are determined by the engine designers (engineers) and that’s why they give you the recommended oil weight. So why is this important? It’s because internal engine components are cooled by oil “Directly” and cooled by the coolant “Indirectly”. So running a thicker oil than what is recommended is a bad idea in most cases. Because oil “flow” through internal engine clearances is critical for proper lubrication and to pull heat from internal engine components. The engine oil temperature in these areas of the engine can be 50-90 degrees “Hotter” than oil sump temperatures; thinner oils flow better than thicker oils pulling more heat from internal engine components. I tested this by switching from manufacturer recommended 5w20 to 5w30 while canyon racing in the North Georgia mountains, and my oil sump temperatures were 16 degrees “Hotter” on average running the thicker oil. Why? Because thicker oil’s flow “slower” through internal engine components and get hotter, driving up bearing temperatures, reach or exceed the oils thermal stability (more on that below), lubricate less affectively and pull less heat from your engine. Thicker oils do provide options with mechanical noise, but mechanical noise doesn’t necessarily mean there is a problem with the engine; usually just annoys the vehicle owner. In addition, I wrote certified letters to the Dodge Ram manufacturing plant in Mexico, corporate office in Ann Arbor Michigan and corporate office in London United Kingdom and asked them what oil viscosity was recommended specific to the cam and bearing clearances on the 4th gen Hemi. And to my surprise I got a response; they gave me the cam and bearing clearances and only recommend 5w20; no surprise. Engineers know what they’re doing, and they know what oil viscosity is ideal. Bottom line, stick with the recommended oil weight from the manufacturer unless you live/work in extreme cold climates; then thinner oils will serve you better. But if you choose a thicker oil, you need to understand what is happening inside your engine. Thicker oils “Do Not” protect better, oil performance has to do with the base oil and additive package working together.
Now that you understand the importance of oil viscosity let’s talk about the single “Most” important aspect of oil. Anti-wear performance! Your oils anti-wear performance is the most critical job of your oil of choice, and that performance differs wildly between different brands of oil. Doesn’t matter what oil manufactures you choose they “All” say their oil is the best. So where does that leave us? Where do we go to see the difference between oils and how they perform against one another? You, I, most of us end up on the internet forums getting opinions from “Self-Proclaimed” oil experts. They talk about base oil, oil additives, post used oil analysis (UOA) and ****** oil analysis (VOA). Trying to helplessly prove that their oil of choice is better. Or prove some other point that has no relevance on the oils anti-wear performance. So where does that leave us? Were right back to the first and most important issue with oil choice, How Does My Oil Perform against other oils???? There is only one (1) place you can find this information, and the link to the oil testing site is in my signature, and at the end of this post. 216 oils tested and compared by a qualified mechanical engineer, independent, controlled, repeatable oil testing that you Cannot find anywhere else. Your only other option is to listen to some self-proclaimed internet oil expert on the pretending to be something they could never be.
Now that that you can freely scroll through the oil testing site and see how oils compare against one another, and you understand the importance of oil viscosity. Let’s talk about the next important aspect of oil. Thermal Stability! Oil thermal stability is the oils ability to maintain anti-wear characteristics while heated. All oils have a drop in anti-wear performance when heated, but the drop varies wildly from oil to oil. Some drop 2-10% while others have a significant drop 25-30% or more and everywhere in between, this is another important thing to consider when choosing your oil. With that said, were right back to the big question; where can we find information on thermal stability? The internet? The self-proclaimed oil expert? Where? This information can be found on the oil test site along with the anti-wear performance. But first why is thermal stability important? During the brief time interval that oil is flowing through the rod and main bearings, most oils will momentarily reach and exceed their thermal breakdown points; and once any oil, conventional or synthetic, has reached its onset of thermal breakdown point, the lighter oil fractions will begin to vaporize, leaving thicker and heavier oil. This will over time, contribute to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption, increased wear and increased emissions. This is something to consider if you believe in extended drain intervals. I’m sure someone will mention the NOACK Volatility Test; oil is heated to 482 degrees F for one (1) hour and test reports results in the percentage, by weight, lost due to “volatilization.” Don’t confuse the NOACK test with thermal stability.
Another highly debated oil topic is “oil additives”. And oil additives differ between oil brands wildly just like thermal stability and anti-wear performance. Aftermarket oil additives like Moly, ZDDP and others, people will debate on the internet with no understanding of how the additive “added” changes the characteristic of the oil when added to the manufactures oil formulations. All the motor oils I have seen have ZDDP in the oil from the manufacture as part of the additive package, adding more ZDDP in the form of an added additive is a bad idea. Check out article 9 on the test site and see 16 oils tested after adding ZDDP additive to the oils, and their anti-wear performance went “Down”. Moly is another highly discussed oil additive and I personally will not run an oil that doesn’t have moly in it, and there are a lot of oils on the market that have None. Simply choose an oil with a robust additive package straight from the oil manufacturer. There are many other oil additives that make up an oils additive package, detergents, anit-foaming and many others that the oil manufacturer puts in the oil as its being formulated. Best thing to do is “Leave The Oil Alone”, chemists and chemical engineers that formulate oil know that they are doing, and, recommend not adding aftermarket oil additives to their oil. See oil additives below:
Silicon = (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron =(detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge, anti-wear)
Magnesium =(detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium =(detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Zinc =(anti-wear)
Phos =(anti-wear)
Moly =(anti-wear)
Potassium =(anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)
Sodium =(anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)
As stated above, the amount of additive between them all in Parts Per Million (PPM) vary from oil brand to oil brand. You can get a ****** oil analysis (VOA) done on your oil to see the amount of additives in PPM in the oil, or go to The Petroleum Quality Institute of America and look at the VOA’s they have posted. But that tells you nothing about anti-wear performance and nothing about thermal stability. There are some racing applications that can benefit from additives due to short drain intervals.
What’s next? Oil change intervals! Another highly debated topic on the internet, and rightfully so considering the differences between oil formulations. Conventional oils, blends, synthetics, high TBN, low TBN and how hard the oil has been worked needs to be considered when choosing your oil drain interval. Racing applications, heavy towing, off road, high idle time, up and down mountains, TBN all need to be considered. Total Bas Number (TBN) in a nut shell is how robust an oils additive package is, high TBN equals longer drain intervals due to the robust additive package. I personally don’t recommend anything over 5k and do not support extended oil drain intervals. But that is a personal decision. My friend at work has a 1992 F-150 with a straight 6 with over 200k miles, and he has never changed the oil himself, never had any kind of engine failure and is the original owner. Just takes it to the quick lube every 3k because the sticker on the windshield tells him to.
Conclusion; choose a highly ranked oil from the mechanical engineers test site, choose an oil with good thermal stability, stick with the vehicle manufacturers oil weight recommendation (extreme cold exception), leave the oil manufacturers carefully balanced oil additive package alone, change your oil regularly.
The mechanical engineer has a questions and answer section where you can ask questions, and get a qualified answer from a qualified person.
Credit: Mechanical Engineer Rat 540
Note: Most of this post I personally typed, but there are a few sentences I copied from the test site to articulate correct information. Test vehicle for the oil viscosity test I did was a 2013 RCSB Dodge Ram 5.7 Hemi.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
Now that you understand the importance of oil viscosity let’s talk about the single “Most” important aspect of oil. Anti-wear performance! Your oils anti-wear performance is the most critical job of your oil of choice, and that performance differs wildly between different brands of oil. Doesn’t matter what oil manufactures you choose they “All” say their oil is the best. So where does that leave us? Where do we go to see the difference between oils and how they perform against one another? You, I, most of us end up on the internet forums getting opinions from “Self-Proclaimed” oil experts. They talk about base oil, oil additives, post used oil analysis (UOA) and ****** oil analysis (VOA). Trying to helplessly prove that their oil of choice is better. Or prove some other point that has no relevance on the oils anti-wear performance. So where does that leave us? Were right back to the first and most important issue with oil choice, How Does My Oil Perform against other oils???? There is only one (1) place you can find this information, and the link to the oil testing site is in my signature, and at the end of this post. 216 oils tested and compared by a qualified mechanical engineer, independent, controlled, repeatable oil testing that you Cannot find anywhere else. Your only other option is to listen to some self-proclaimed internet oil expert on the pretending to be something they could never be.
Now that that you can freely scroll through the oil testing site and see how oils compare against one another, and you understand the importance of oil viscosity. Let’s talk about the next important aspect of oil. Thermal Stability! Oil thermal stability is the oils ability to maintain anti-wear characteristics while heated. All oils have a drop in anti-wear performance when heated, but the drop varies wildly from oil to oil. Some drop 2-10% while others have a significant drop 25-30% or more and everywhere in between, this is another important thing to consider when choosing your oil. With that said, were right back to the big question; where can we find information on thermal stability? The internet? The self-proclaimed oil expert? Where? This information can be found on the oil test site along with the anti-wear performance. But first why is thermal stability important? During the brief time interval that oil is flowing through the rod and main bearings, most oils will momentarily reach and exceed their thermal breakdown points; and once any oil, conventional or synthetic, has reached its onset of thermal breakdown point, the lighter oil fractions will begin to vaporize, leaving thicker and heavier oil. This will over time, contribute to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption, increased wear and increased emissions. This is something to consider if you believe in extended drain intervals. I’m sure someone will mention the NOACK Volatility Test; oil is heated to 482 degrees F for one (1) hour and test reports results in the percentage, by weight, lost due to “volatilization.” Don’t confuse the NOACK test with thermal stability.
Another highly debated oil topic is “oil additives”. And oil additives differ between oil brands wildly just like thermal stability and anti-wear performance. Aftermarket oil additives like Moly, ZDDP and others, people will debate on the internet with no understanding of how the additive “added” changes the characteristic of the oil when added to the manufactures oil formulations. All the motor oils I have seen have ZDDP in the oil from the manufacture as part of the additive package, adding more ZDDP in the form of an added additive is a bad idea. Check out article 9 on the test site and see 16 oils tested after adding ZDDP additive to the oils, and their anti-wear performance went “Down”. Moly is another highly discussed oil additive and I personally will not run an oil that doesn’t have moly in it, and there are a lot of oils on the market that have None. Simply choose an oil with a robust additive package straight from the oil manufacturer. There are many other oil additives that make up an oils additive package, detergents, anit-foaming and many others that the oil manufacturer puts in the oil as its being formulated. Best thing to do is “Leave The Oil Alone”, chemists and chemical engineers that formulate oil know that they are doing, and, recommend not adding aftermarket oil additives to their oil. See oil additives below:
Silicon = (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron =(detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge, anti-wear)
Magnesium =(detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium =(detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Zinc =(anti-wear)
Phos =(anti-wear)
Moly =(anti-wear)
Potassium =(anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)
Sodium =(anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)
As stated above, the amount of additive between them all in Parts Per Million (PPM) vary from oil brand to oil brand. You can get a ****** oil analysis (VOA) done on your oil to see the amount of additives in PPM in the oil, or go to The Petroleum Quality Institute of America and look at the VOA’s they have posted. But that tells you nothing about anti-wear performance and nothing about thermal stability. There are some racing applications that can benefit from additives due to short drain intervals.
What’s next? Oil change intervals! Another highly debated topic on the internet, and rightfully so considering the differences between oil formulations. Conventional oils, blends, synthetics, high TBN, low TBN and how hard the oil has been worked needs to be considered when choosing your oil drain interval. Racing applications, heavy towing, off road, high idle time, up and down mountains, TBN all need to be considered. Total Bas Number (TBN) in a nut shell is how robust an oils additive package is, high TBN equals longer drain intervals due to the robust additive package. I personally don’t recommend anything over 5k and do not support extended oil drain intervals. But that is a personal decision. My friend at work has a 1992 F-150 with a straight 6 with over 200k miles, and he has never changed the oil himself, never had any kind of engine failure and is the original owner. Just takes it to the quick lube every 3k because the sticker on the windshield tells him to.
Conclusion; choose a highly ranked oil from the mechanical engineers test site, choose an oil with good thermal stability, stick with the vehicle manufacturers oil weight recommendation (extreme cold exception), leave the oil manufacturers carefully balanced oil additive package alone, change your oil regularly.
The mechanical engineer has a questions and answer section where you can ask questions, and get a qualified answer from a qualified person.
Credit: Mechanical Engineer Rat 540
Note: Most of this post I personally typed, but there are a few sentences I copied from the test site to articulate correct information. Test vehicle for the oil viscosity test I did was a 2013 RCSB Dodge Ram 5.7 Hemi.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
kevperro
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Use whatever oil your manual recommends and change it at the interval your manual recommends. 
To be honest, that is all you need. I changed mine at 2000, and use Pennzoil PP or PUP and typically change it when my OLM hits 5%. Averaging my data I'm getting 8400 miles per oil change. Sometimes I change early due to my schedule. Longest run I've had is 9400 miles but I'm going to beat that on this oil change I think.
To be honest, that is all you need. I changed mine at 2000, and use Pennzoil PP or PUP and typically change it when my OLM hits 5%. Averaging my data I'm getting 8400 miles per oil change. Sometimes I change early due to my schedule. Longest run I've had is 9400 miles but I'm going to beat that on this oil change I think.
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corneileous
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@HammerHead,
Good post. Pretty much all along if I happened to not have this lifetime warranty on my new truck I’d still be using 5w-20 something. Ran the manufacturer recommended 5w-20 in both a 2004 Dakota 4.7 and 2008 Ram Hemi with not one single problem so that’s what I’m going to continue to use.
But I’m curious: what are your thoughts on the accuracy of our oil life meters? Do we trust that, or is it probably better to just stick to what I was doing on my old truck, which was changing the oil and filter every 4500-5k miles or 6 months, irregardless of the meter? My old truck had the same concept of that oil life meter but all it was, was just a message that popped up on the information center telling you to change the oil. I always ignored that, primarily because I never could find out how it worked so, I just did what I’ve always done in the past, which was change the oil at specified intervals.
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Good post. Pretty much all along if I happened to not have this lifetime warranty on my new truck I’d still be using 5w-20 something. Ran the manufacturer recommended 5w-20 in both a 2004 Dakota 4.7 and 2008 Ram Hemi with not one single problem so that’s what I’m going to continue to use.
But I’m curious: what are your thoughts on the accuracy of our oil life meters? Do we trust that, or is it probably better to just stick to what I was doing on my old truck, which was changing the oil and filter every 4500-5k miles or 6 months, irregardless of the meter? My old truck had the same concept of that oil life meter but all it was, was just a message that popped up on the information center telling you to change the oil. I always ignored that, primarily because I never could find out how it worked so, I just did what I’ve always done in the past, which was change the oil at specified intervals.
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corneileous
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But I did talk to my dealership a while back though, and they said doing my own oil changes would be fine with this lifetime warranty but I was informed to keep very detailed records and receipts so I’m thinking I’m going to get a plain book binder at Walmart and get some of the 3-hole transparent sleeves to put receipts in. They didn’t say anything about doing oil analysis reports or nothing but at this point I’m kinda thinking that since I have the lifetime warranty, that it probably wouldn’t be a bad idea as cheap insurance.
What’s a good place to go through for that? I’ve done used oil analysis stuff before but I never got to see any of the reports. This was way back when I worked on natural gas compressors in the gas patch.
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What’s a good place to go through for that? I’ve done used oil analysis stuff before but I never got to see any of the reports. This was way back when I worked on natural gas compressors in the gas patch.
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kevperro
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If it meets the MS-6395 spec, it will go the full OLM distance without an issue. If you want to get ****, go to NAPA and get an oil analysis kit. Don't read too much into the numbers. Probably the most useful function of these test is they will tell you if you have an air leak or coolant getting into the oil. Not a bad idea to spot check it after you get some miles on it.
grizzstang
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Blackstone Labs seems to be the place most here use. They will send you the test kit for free. Just go to their website and order one.
raggdoll
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I normally do a first oil change in a new vehicle early, 1500-2000km.
My break in process is drive it a bit harder than normal with varying engine speeds. Then dump the FF and put a good quality full syn with the Mfg's suggested viscosity rating.
My break in process is drive it a bit harder than normal with varying engine speeds. Then dump the FF and put a good quality full syn with the Mfg's suggested viscosity rating.
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corneileous
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