IS IT TIME 5.7 TO GET DROPPED ???

[Sammy]

And the new toyota hybrid is what, 570 lb/ft of torque?

I do like the hemi (lifter tick notwithstanding) but it's clearly the underdog now in performance if you care about winning stoplight races.

If you buy a truck because it's a good truck, and then want an engine to power it (like me), the hemi is perfectly fine. 22+mpg highway, pulls my trailer well, sounds great, and easily capable of getting out of its own way.

The ford does far worse in towing MPG though. That's been proven multiple times by guys on youtube like tfl truck and pickup truck talk. Unloaded, it's certainly possible to beat the hemi in mpg, but not when towing and working it hard.

I’ve owned a 2015,2017,2019 ram 5.7s 3.21, 3.92 rear ends
My fuel economy is much better towing with 3.5 3.55 ford.
Same holiday trailer. Same wind, same hills.
All those websites tests, towing with cruise on, basically flooring it to get to speed ext. isnt how someone that tows trailers all day drives. Not me at least.
My real world experience is that ford out-trucks Ram in every way. until Ram finds a better gas engine for there half tons.

 

[HEMIMANN]

5.7L & 6.4L Hemi engines have same external dimensions. In fact, the head castings are (or were, at least) the same part number. I dug these out when looking at squeezing long tube headers into my 2500. The bigger HD truck frame rails make it difficult. The rails were designed to fit Cummins tall, heavy long block, so the squat V8 drops way down into the rails. Exhaust is very tight.

Big differences are internal - 6.4L has forged steel crankshaft, sodium filled valves, bigger displacement (don't recall if bigger bore or stroke or both).

 

[pacofortacos]

I am pretty sure the 392 does not fit in the 1500 for some reason; and that it is not cost effective due to the push of EV. But even years ago, not cost effective because, well, the few that would pay for it. YES, I AM ONE THAT WOULD HAVE!

That said, what does the 5.7 not have that you really need in a 1500 vs the 392 other than bragging rights? None. The 5.7 is efficient, powerful and capable for what it is vs the payload.

I mean look at the rest of the line up going from the base engine to the 6.4 is $$$$ - personally I would have bought my Limited with the 6.4 over the 5.7 everyday and 2x on Sunday, but the average person would not - I mean look at the 3.21 vs 3.92 threads, it is all about MPG -UNTIL IT IS NOT!

I would prefer the 6.4 for towing and would have gotten it and opted for the 3.21's vs. the 3.92's that I have.
It will fit since they are basically the same motor except for the stroke. It esp. would make sense now that they have an 8 speed trans capable of taking the torque of the 6.4. That was the limiting factor prior. The 6.4 w/6 speed would take too big of a hit on mpg I would be willing to bet. The 1500 lives under different rules vs. the 2500 and up.

 

[ramffml]

I’ve owned a 2015,2017,2019 ram 5.7s 3.21, 3.92 rear ends
My fuel economy is much better towing with 3.5 3.55 ford.
Same holiday trailer. Same wind, same hills.
All those websites tests, towing with cruise on, basically flooring it to get to speed ext. isnt how someone that tows trailers all day drives. Not me at least.
My real world experience is that ford out-trucks Ram in every way. until Ram finds a better gas engine for there half tons.

They don't just floor it, tfl truck does that on one particular test but they do long distance mpg runs, as does the other guy I mentioned.

Turbos don't like to work hard. You can't shove more air down the engine without increasing gas, and they're not efficent when they're worked. Your truck sounds like the exception, because I've seen tons of towing videos/reports.

 

[ramffml]

I don't want the 2500/6.4. I want the SRT 6.4 as its 485 HP. It's not as durable as the BGE 6.4 but the BGE is not worth putting in our truck as it's barely anymore powerful and for most of us the SRT will be just as durable as the 5.7.

 

[pacofortacos]

In any body/gearing config, it takes X amount of power to move down the road with any given load - which is why almost all of the motors get about the same mpg under a heavy load. Now unloaded, there is some gain to be had there between the motors, esp. in under 50 mph conditions.

 

[pacofortacos]

I don't want the 2500/6.4. I want the SRT 6.4 as its 485 HP. It's not as durable as the BGE 6.4 but the BGE is not worth putting in our truck as it's barely anymore powerful and for most of us the SRT will be just as durable as the 5.7.

The BGE makes significantly better low end torque than the others and personally I want off idle torque for towing or hauling. Could care less about the power over 4000 rpms as it will almost never see that rpm.
Now they could offer the SRT 6.4 in a special edition model for the ones that would want it - better marketing idea.

That way you would have a choice of either diesel like low end power for those who want to tow/haul or high rpm power for the stop light racers.

 

[ramffml]

I mean look at the rest of the line up going from the base engine to the 6.4 is $$$$ - personally I would have bought my Limited with the 6.4 over the 5.7 everyday and 2x on Sunday, but the average person would not - I mean look at the 3.21 vs 3.92 threads, it is all about MPG -UNTIL IT IS NOT!

The 3.21 vs 3.92 is a different argument. Because you're sacrificing 400 lower revs on the highway, for a super short granny gear which is the last thing I need. I don't need more power from a stop; my truck tows incredibly well in first gear, it's never feeling strained there. Where I need the power is on on ramps or passing a trucker on the highway, and the 3.92's have no advantage there (transmission can just downshift to get you the same ratio)

But the 6.4 SRT; completely different story. You're getting more power absolutely everywhere. From a stop, in every gear, at every RPM. And if you pair it with the 3.21 you'd probably still have pretty good MPG on the highway. The 3.92 just gets you power from a stop, and then thats it; the price you pay is that extra 400 revs at the top, and it's just not worth it. My opinion.

 

[ramffml]

The BGE makes significantly better low end torque than the others and personally I want off idle torque for towing or hauling. Could care less about the power over 4000 rpms as it will almost never see that rpm.
Now they could offer the SRT 6.4 in a special edition model for the ones that would want it - better marketing idea.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm not sure you're right. The SRT is a stronger motor (more HP and torque) everywhere. If you have graphs for torque curves I'd love to see them. It's designed for performance first, durability second. The BGE is designed for durability first, performance second. In a work truck/2500 that's a good thing, but in a family hauler like our 1500's, the SRT is the better option.

 

[G-Ride990]

Sorry but the fuel economy is now where close to a ford. And the new 3.5 is 450hp and 500ft of torque.
Well ahead of the 5.7 hemi.

It is actually at least from what I could find doing some research. You can only get the 3.5 eco in 4x4 F150s. If they put it in a 2wd the story might be different.

I don't know a whole tom between brands though, I literally jumped on motortrend to type my first response. If I'm incorrect I'll own it 100%

 

[pacofortacos]

It might be, it's hard finding the curves.
The truck 6.4 torque is almost flat from about 2300 -5700 rpms.
"
As we mentioned earlier in this feature, the 6.4L HEMI V8 engine was also used in Ram 2500/3500/4500/5500 in Medium Duty (MD) and Heavy Duty (HD) truck applications going back to around 2015. While the block cylinder heads and rotating assembly offer a great foundation for building a GEN III performance project engine, the truck engine is designed more for low-end torque and heavy load applications. There are some major differences between the HD truck 6.4L HEMI V8 and passenger car/SUV 6.4L/392 HEMI V8 engines you need to be aware of. If one of these pops up at a cheap price, just know what you’re buying. The first difference is that the intake manifold has a top-feed mounted throttle body, and this design has a runner length that’s designed to make max power from 3600 rpm to 5000 rpm. The compression ratio is also lowered to 10.0:1 because of a piston change from the passenger car/SUV 6.4L/392 HEMI V8 engines.

The truck engine still uses a Hypereutectic piston w/oil squirters to reduce heat and a floating pin design that’s attached to a powdered metal I-beam connecting rod. The twin-plug aluminum cylinder head on the truck engines still retain the massive 2.14-inch intake valve and 1.65-inch exhaust valve found on the SRT and Scat Pack vehicles. The cylinder heads are also cast from high-grade T356 aluminum material to withstand any detonation and high-temps under severe towing conditions.

They have a unique casting number of 05045468AE and 68166435AA, AB, AC and AD. This head casting was also used on the 2015 Mopar Challenger Drag Pak engines. The exhaust manifolds on the 6.4L HEMI truck engines are a cast iron design that are more restrictive than the tubular style found on the passenger car/SUV applications. Most folks will probably discard the factory cast iron exhaust manifolds in favor for aftermarket headers during their engine swap project. The camshaft on the HD truck engines is also designed for low-speed torque and not higher rpm horsepower. The net result is a horsepower rating between 366 to 410 @ 5,600 rpm and torque coming at 429 lb.-ft. @ 4,000 rpm. When it comes to out-of-the-box modern performance engines, the stock HD truck 6.4L HEMI engine is not a strip blazer, but with its BGE casting block, 356 aluminum heads, and steel crankshaft, you’ll have a great foundation to build a high-performance engine combo with strong bones to withstand close to 1,000 horsepower."

 

[Farmer Fran]

The truck 6.4 and SRT 6.4 are quite different in power delivery. The SRT in a 1500 would be a terrible tow engine. Fast, sure.

 

[ramffml]

The truck 6.4 and SRT 6.4 are quite different in power delivery. The SRT in a 1500 would be a terrible tow engine. Fast, sure.

It would do very well. More HP/torque across the RPM band than the chevy 6.2. And they put the SRT in the Durango which has an almost 9000 pound tow rating (more than my truck), and also the Jeep Wagoneer; neither of which are truck platforms (so it's hard to say but my guess is the platform itself (unibody) is the limiting factor and not engine).

It would beat the 5.7 hands down; which is all I'm after. I'm not looking to create another 2500, just to make the Ram competitive with Ford and GM and now Toyota, all of which are eating our lunch.

Edit: my bad, looks like the wagoneer is actually a truck platform. Still, it's best in class towing at almost 10,000 pounds.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I am pretty sure the 392 does not fit in the 1500 for some reason; and that it is not cost effective due to the push of EV. But even years ago, not cost effective because, well, the few that would pay for it. YES, I AM ONE THAT WOULD HAVE!

External dimensions for the 5.7 and 6.4 are the same, there's no reason it can't be swapped in a 1500. Even if that wasn't the case, they shoe-horned it into the Wrangler, after all. That was a more expensive engineering exercise. Obviously they thought people would buy it in a Wrangler. I bet it's more to do with not siphoning off their own 2500 sales to 1500 sales than it is an engineering challenge, personally.

 

[Farmer Fran]

External dimensions for the 5.7 and 6.4 are the same, there's no reason it can't be swapped in a 1500. Even if that wasn't the case, they shoe-horned it into the Wrangler, after all. That was a more expensive engineering exercise. Obviously they thought people would buy it in a Wrangler. I bet it's more to do with not siphoning off their own 2500 sales to 1500 sales than it is an engineering challenge, personally.

It was something, I will see if I can find it. Cannot remember if it was the intake, exhaust, electric steering. It was something prohibitive and they said it was not worth it. My guess is the HC motor was the plan so no need to mess with the 6.4 in a dying powertrain lineup.

 

[Farmer Fran]

It would do very well. More HP/torque across the RPM band than the chevy 6.2. And they put the SRT in the Durango which has an almost 9000 pound tow rating (more than my truck), and also the Jeep Wagoneer; neither of which are truck platforms (so it's hard to say but my guess is the platform itself (unibody) is the limiting factor and not engine).

It would beat the 5.7 hands down; which is all I'm after. I'm not looking to create another 2500, just to make the Ram competitive with Ford and GM and now Toyota, all of which are eating our lunch.

Edit: my bad, looks like the wagoneer is actually a truck platform. Still, it's best in class towing at almost 10,000 pounds.

The Tahoe has a LOT more payload, so technically can tow more. Tow rating is such a BS metric. And that SRT 6.4 in a RAM would net putrid MPG. It does in my car. Look at the real-world MPG in those Waggoneers, comical.

I towed my Dutchmen Denali all over the place with that 5.7 and never once thought, damn I need more power.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Isn't the main trick to the 6.4 SRT the blower? I mean anybody can add a blower and get instant hp, at risk of blowing it up.

 

[pacofortacos]

SRT 6.4 is NA, the Hellcat is blown.

 

[Ram 1970]

If this hasn't been introduced to this question (sorry, 10 pages too long for me, lol), then let me put this out there:

Site Maintenance

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/

"On the Toyota Tundra Electric (Toyota Tundra EV)
Introducing the Toyota bZ4X electric SUV concept at Auto Shanghai 2021, Toyota said it intends to release a pure electric pickup truck and a hybrid pickup truck. Later this decade, a Toyota Tundra Electric or a Toyota Tacoma EV could arrive as the company’s first zero-emission pickup truck."

I'd bet my year paycheck that this above is the sole reason there hasn't been any significant and serious effort into redesigning/re imagining a new hemi or engine design. Detroit (and foreign competitors) are already deep into the process of electric battery transition. It would be a very poor idea right now to invest into something that.....MAY....be obsolete in just 10 years. The Hemi, like it has been said in this thread, is a stout, reliable and powerful design that has served Chrysler very well. However, it's (possible) extinction is on the horizon. It can serve the remaining years until the transition to electric power.

 

[ramffml]

The Tahoe has a LOT more payload, so technically can tow more. Tow rating is such a BS metric. And that SRT 6.4 in a RAM would net putrid MPG. It does in my car. Look at the real-world MPG in those Waggoneers, comical.

I towed my Dutchmen Denali all over the place with that 5.7 and never once thought, damn I need more power.

But now you're moving the goalposts. You said "the SRT 6.4 would make a terrible tow vehicle". It wouldn't, you obviously find the 5.7 sufficient in power so adding more power with the 6.4 by definition cannot be terrible.

I agree that tow rating is such a BS metric. It's why I've saying the 3.92 doesn't get you 3000 pounds extra of towing over the 3.21 even though the spec seems to suggest just that.

But the SRT's HP and torque increase is real. You'll notice that everywhere.