Ecodiesel 2500?

chri5k said:

Yep. Don't think anyone would buy a 2500 that takes 2 minutes to go up a highway on-ramp and reach 1 MPH. Then try to merge into traffic doing 70 MPH. With the EcoD you might get a 2500+ LB payload (lighter engine) but can only tow 5000 Lbs. Whats the point? Might as well get a 1500.

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A properly geared 2500 with an ED may not win any drag races but it’s highly unlikely it would be unsafe and would have significantly more towing capacity than 5K. At 480 ft. Lbs. of torque it’s already significantly stronger than a Hemi. 9-10k tow capacity with a 9k GVWR would be a far safer vehicle to tow a 6-8k trailer than a 1/2 ton weighing in at less than 6k. Can a half ton do it? Yes. Would it be as stable as a 3/4 ton while doing it? Not likely. Again, not everyone has a need for 15k tow capacity and can’t justify $10k for a Cummins. Trade offs.

All that said, an I4 Cummins would be a very nice option. As noted, drop one cylinder and they’re likely to hit very favorable numbers across the board. From hp/tq to cost and fuel mileage.


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kltk1 said:

A properly geared 2500 with an ED may not win any drag races but it’s highly unlikely it would be unsafe and would have significantly more towing capacity than 5K. At 480 ft. Lbs. of torque it’s already significantly stronger than a Hemi. 9-10k tow capacity with a 9k GVWR would be a far safer vehicle to tow a 6-8k trailer than a 1/2 ton weighing in at less than 6k. Can a half ton do it? Yes. Would it be as stable as a 3/4 ton while doing it? Not likely. Again, not everyone has a need for 15k tow capacity and can’t justify $10k for a Cummins. Trade offs.

All that said, an I4 Cummins would be a very nice option. As noted, drop one cylinder and they’re likely to hit very favorable numbers across the board. From hp/tq to cost and fuel mileage.


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I wouldn't call 51 ft/lb significantly more torque. However, I would call 160 HP significantly less HP which is what the EcoD has. The problem is torque peaks at around 1600 RPM while HP peaks at 3600 RPM. Torque is fairly flat until about 2600 RPM at which point HP is around 200. If it was geared for peak HP, torque would be around 320 Ft/Lb. There is no magic to gearing. The Hemi has peak torque at 4000 RPM and peak HP at 5600 RPM. At peak torque, HP is around 300. It is that 50% more HP that helps the Hemi accelerate much better.

IMHO, the truck would most likely be a real dog trying to get on a highway with an 8K trailer. Trying to merge into traffic that is going 10 - 20 MPH faster than you is dangerous for you and everyone one else on the highway. I have seen it a number of times where Maw and Paw kettle driving their old overloaded 1/2 ton and trailer try to get on the highway going slower than the traffic. Folks trying to switch lanes to avoid them and / or Paw saying "Screw it, I am coming over I have a right to be on the highway" makes for a lot of last second maneuvering. None of it was pretty.

chri5k said:

I wouldn't call 51 ft/lb significantly more torque. However, I would call 160 HP significantly less HP which is what the EcoD has. The problem is torque peaks at around 1600 RPM while HP peaks at 3600 RPM. Torque is fairly flat until about 2600 RPM at which point HP is around 200. If it was geared for peak HP, torque would be around 320 Ft/Lb. There is no magic to gearing. The Hemi has peak torque at 4000 RPM and peak HP at 5600 RPM. At peak torque, HP is around 300. It is that 50% more HP that helps the Hemi accelerate much better.

IMHO, the truck would most likely be a real dog trying to get on a highway with an 8K trailer. Trying to merge into traffic that is going 10 - 20 MPH faster than you is dangerous for you and everyone one else on the highway. I have seen it a number of times where Maw and Paw kettle driving their old overloaded 1/2 ton and trailer try to get on the highway going slower than the traffic. Folks trying to switch lanes to avoid them and / or Paw saying "Screw it, I am coming over I have a right to be on the highway" makes for a lot of last second maneuvering. None of it was pretty.

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The 2020 Ram 1500 ED has the max towing (ie, it tows more than the Hemi does) at 12,500 pounds. (EDIT: My bad, the Hemi has 12,700, so slightly more than the ED).Yet for years the 5.7 was in the 2500.

I think you're underestimating the power of the ED, it would do well in those cases where a loaded 1500 has 1100 pounds of payload, but dropping that engine in a 2500 would give you significantly more payload and stability, while still being able to pull 9000+ pounds. A loaded cummins 2500 has very low payload (all things considered), I was shocked when looking at it the other day. At this point someone looking to tow a 9000 - 10000 pound trailer may as well jump right from the 1500 to the 3500 if they also want a diesel.

But that use case might not be in very high demand, who knows.

Those numbers are from the EcoD specs so there is no underestimating. It takes horsepower and torque to accelerate a load. The EcoD just does not have the horsepower at the right RPM's to accelerate a load as capably as the 6.4 and definitely not in the league of the 6.7 Cummins. Additionally, the 2500 platform is about 1,500 Lbs heavier than the 1500.

ramffml said:

Yet for years the 5.7 was in the 2500.

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And that is what @chri5k is saying. It is why the 5.7l Hemi is not in the HeavyDuty anymore. It topped a out at 9k GVWR.

The eco diesel is for light duty application.

My tradesman 2500 has a base weight of 7002lbs. GVWR on the new Eco Diesel is 7200lbs

Getting clearer.

So going from the 1500 to the 2500 it has less than 200lbs available. And we already know the Hemi is lighter. So although it is a great idea...once you get to a 2500...you need to go onto the 3500 with a diesel...which you also agree.

RAM has no need for a heavy half ton. Nissan did that cause they have no 2500 or 3500.

It just doesn't fit...now...taking the Cummins and offering a Miser version (this was a trim in the 1st gen...for gas mileage) making it say 350 horse and 650 torque...airplane gears and a lower tow rating...that might interest someone.

Unfortunately right now they are chasing that 35k tow limit. RAM already said they were going to focus on towing 35k better rather than 36k

When people are crying cause they didnt put the HO in the 2500 (no reason too...the extra power can not be used) RAM figures no one wants a less powerful engine.

392DevilDog said:

And that is what @chri5k is saying. It is why the 5.7l Hemi is not in the HeavyDuty anymore. It topped a out at 9k GVWR.

The eco diesel is for light duty application.

My tradesman 2500 has a base weight of 7002lbs. GVWR on the new Eco Diesel is 7200lbs

Getting clearer.

So going from the 1500 to the 2500 it has less than 200lbs available. And we already know the Hemi is lighter. So although it is a great idea...once you get to a 2500...you need to go onto the 3500 with a diesel...which you also agree.

RAM has no need for a heavy half ton. Nissan did that cause they have no 2500 or 3500.

It just doesn't fit...now...taking the Cummins and offering a Miser version (this was a trim in the 1st gen...for gas mileage) making it say 350 horse and 650 torque...airplane gears and a lower tow rating...that might interest someone.

Unfortunately right now they are chasing that 35k tow limit. RAM already said they were going to focus on towing 35k better rather than 36k

When people are crying cause they didnt put the HO in the 2500 (no reason too...the extra power can not be used) RAM figures no one wants a less powerful engine.

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Who knows, Y'all might be right. I just figured if the ED can tow 12,500 in the 1500, it should be able to tow the same amount (minus difference in weight) in the 2500. I do take your point though about the ED being for light duty. But again, my thought was there are many 1500's that are running out of payload very quickly, some might just want a 2500 to get the extra payload, not to use them in construction/landscaping duty etc but then again, some would buy them for that and probably kill them quickly.

Also when the 5.7 was in the 2500, it was using a transmission with less gears, I think with the 8 speed it would do better in the 2019/2020 2500. But that's neither here nor there.

So was the 6.4l using the 6 speed. The 5.7l ran out at 9k. The 2500 is now 10k and they decided to drop the 5.7l.

Maybe you are missing something. You keep saying the ecod can tow 12500...yes...because it is in a 1500. It has a GCWR of 17000.

So you now put it into a truck that weighs 7250 to start...so that gets subtracted from that.

So a base ecod in a quad cab is 5300. We will say in a 2500 it would be 7300 so that 12500 is now 10500. And max tow is figured at 300lbs in the truck. An average family does not weigh 300lbs. And remember this is a tradesman

A Laramie can easily have a curb weight of 8k

Now you are down to 9500.

And then when people overload them like they always do...they will say..this damn RAM runs like ****. I hate these ****** RAMS.

And in case you didnt know...the heavy half Nissan is gone. Seems the plan didnt work.

I think you will see another option in the HeavyDuty and that will be a premium gas engine. Further bridging the gap of diesel...as the eco nannies continue to choke the diesel out

Great discussion, folks. Thanks to everyone chiming in.

Couple thoughts
1. Old 7.3l powerstroke 250 hp 500tq slow I had one it's a **** but it did pull.

2. 7.3l vs 3.0 the 3.0 is half the size so carrying double the stress.

3. I see the thought being very soild in a smaller diesel in a truck that can handle the travel trailers better than the 1500s.

4. Dont see that being cost effective from the R&D side.

5. The better avenue would be to take the 1500 crew cab 6 1/2 bed and beef up the frame slightly and toss 8 lugs axles under it, D rated tires and get it under 6k with a gvw at 8k. I'm not sure how much heavier the 3/4 axles are vs the 1/2 it might be hard to only add 5-700lbs. you could probably get the eco diesel to provide 20mpg out of that with 4.10 gears it would pull strong with that 8spd still be better to give the ecodiesel a little boost in power to get it up to that 250/500 mark.

6. If ram built the above truck successfully I bet there HD market would drop significantly and in the end possibly lose money with more people buying the cheaper truck.

7. Back to the R&D, they use to do heavy halfs back in the day and theres a reason we dont have them. today the 1500s are a very capable truck. The guy towing a 7-9000lb travel trailer is your niche market and it small.

8. Ram build a heavy half with the 1500 cc body 6 1/2 bed beefed up eco diesel 8 spd and 4.10s. Theres a good chance I would buy one when my lease is up. Just saying.

14hemiexpress said:

8. Ram build a heavy half with the 1500 cc body 6 1/2 bed beefed up eco diesel 8 spd and 4.10s. Theres a good chance I would buy one when my lease is up.

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Unless you plan on running oversized tires, you don't need 4.10 gearing. 3.92 will break the rears free and driving on slick surfaces can be interesting(yes I have the LSD and AT tires). The new Gen3 EcoD motor has a lower torque peak, probably even less of a reason for needing 4.10. Even pulling 8K lbs up a typical freeway I still have plenty of giddy up, you'll run out of RPMs with 4.10 on stock tire sizes

crash68 said:

Unless you plan on running oversized tires, you don't need 4.10 gearing. 3.92 will break the rears free and driving on slick surfaces can be interesting(yes I have the LSD and AT tires). The new Gen3 EcoD motor has a lower torque peak, probably even less of a reason for needing 4.10. Even pulling 8K lbs up a typical freeway I still have plenty of giddy up, you'll run out of RPMs with 4.10 on stock tire sizes

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Only thought behind 4.10 was its a oe axle gear for the 3/4 axle and if you put d rated tires you have more rotating mass from the 40ish lbs per tire to 55 ish lbs of rotating mass.

14hemiexpress said:

Only thought behind 4.10 was its a oe axle gear for the 3/4 axle and if you put d rated tires you have more rotating mass from the 40ish lbs per tire to 55 ish lbs of rotating mass.

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The rotating mass isn't a problem, my ATs are Load E tires, probably 50 lbs each. Unless you going with really heavy trailers, the lower gearing isn't needed with a diesel like with the gassers. Like mentioned earlier, the EcoD makes equivalent/more torque around 2K rpms compared to the 6.4L does up around 4K rpms.
A 2500 CTD it will tow a 18K lbs trailer(26K GCW) with relative ease up and down the hills with 3.42 gears, you put a 12K lbs trailer(19K GCW) behind a 6.4L with 4.10 gears and you'll know it's back there.

crash68 said:

The rotating mass isn't a problem, my ATs are Load E tires, probably 50 lbs each. Unless you going with really heavy trailers, the lower gearing isn't needed with a diesel like with the gassers. Like mentioned earlier, the EcoD makes equivalent/more torque around 2K rpms compared to the 6.4L does up around 4K rpms.
A 2500 CTD it will tow a 18K lbs trailer(26K GCW) with relative ease up and down the hills with 3.42 gears, you put a 12K lbs trailer(19K GCW) behind a 6.4L with 4.10 gears and you'll know it's back there.

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If you could get away with the 3.73 then you could even add to your fuel mileage at that point.