2500 vs 3500 Payload

[JMod45]

I recently bought a 2014 2500 Diesel 4x4, as an upgrade to my 1500 Hemi 4x2. I read quite a bit about weights, payloads, trailer weights, etc. during the process.

My 1500 said it could pull about 8400 lbs with the setup I had. The 2500 can pull 17,000 lbs. So I keep joking that I could take the 1500, with my travel trailer, put it on another trailer, and pull the whole thing with my new truck. It puts into perspective how much more the 2500 can pull in comparison.

I decided to look up the 3500 ratings, just for grins, and was surprised at the numbers. A 3500 with single rear wheels, doesn't seem to be much different than the 2500.

From the ramtrucks website:
Both 2014 Crew cab, short box, laramie with 6.7l turbo diesel. Transmission is the same for both trucks.
2500 Trailer max weight is 17,010 lbs
3500 SRW trailer max weight is 17,110 lbs

The base weight of the truck is about 100 lbs less on the 3500, which could be the trailer difference. I guess if you have the same engine, transmission, and rear end ratio, the trailer numbers won't change.

Where I am more surprised, is the payload.
The rear axle of a 2500 is rated for 6500 lbs
The rear axle of a 3500 is rated for 7000 lbs
The axle can hold an extra 500 lbs. So how is the 3500 payload 1800 lbs higher than the 2500?

Base rear weight of a 3500 is 2970, plus payload of 3980, is 6950. 50 lbs below the axle rating
Base rear weight of a 2500 is 2969, plus payload of 2180, is 5149. 1351 lbs below the axle rating

The 1500 I just sold, payload was 138 lbs below the axle rating.

The way I see the numbers, the 2500 could have 1000+ lbs added to the payload, and still be under the axle ratings.

I'm not trying to start any arguments, and I'm nowhere near the limits of my 2500 to even start to worry about this, just something that caught my eye when looking at numbers, so I thought I would throw it out there and see what folks have to say.

Keep in mind all of this information applies to a single wheel 3500, duallys have much higher numbers, and more what I expected to see when I looked up weights.


I cropped the images to simplify things:

Numbers for 2500:


Numbers for 3500:

 

[U&A]

It all depends on the trucks setup. My 6.4 hemi crew cab long bed SRW3500 has a 4,440LBS payload. And other trucks are more.


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]

 

[Ghetto Fab.]

Thats a good question. I've always wondered why the 6.4 trucks got a 3000lb rear payload rating vs the 2000lb rating of a cummins? Yes the cummins is heavier, but not 1000lbs heavier. The hemi would have to be a super light weight engine for that alone to be the cause. I guess the dEF tank and DPF add extra weight too.

As far as I know the 2500 and single wheel 3500 are essentially the same truck, with the exception of the rear suspension. Coils on the 2500 and leafs on the 3500. The leafs might be a bit lighter, but otherwise its all spring rate differences. I believe the rear axle are the same.

I will say it doesn't seem like some of the numbers they list add up right.

Kevin

 

[bdc2]

3/4 ton by law gvwr has to be under 10,000 lbs.

 

[mtofell]

3/4 ton by law gvwr has to be under 10,000 lbs.

^^this

10K is the limit for that class.

This whole thing is regularly beat to death in RV towing forums (and here). There are basically two camps of folks - One says go by axle and tire weights as they are what really matter for safety. The other says you are going to kill your entire family and anyone within 100 miles if you exceed you GVWR.

Another thing that really helped me learn weights is to realize there are two weight ratings and they are totally different - what can the truck CARRY (payload). What the truck PULL (GCWR, max towing, etc.).

Manufacturers make a fortune focusing on one of those numbers (usually "max towing") with their advertisements and completely ignore the other.

 

[mtnrider]

The way I see the numbers, the 2500 could have 1000+ lbs added to the payload, and still be under the axle ratings.

On top of what is posted above about a 2500 having to be under 10K GVWR, yes the axle could handle it but the truck is not sprung for that additional weight either. You will get a lot more sag and could lose some stability if going over that rating.

.

 

[SouthTexan]

As stated before, the 2500 is a class 2B truck which has a max GVWR of 10,000 lbs no matter what even if the truck itself can safely carry considerably more weight. The 3500 is a class 3 truck that can be maxed out to 14,000 lbs. This vehicle class system was created decades ago, and is used by many different government agencies from the EPA for emissions certifications to state vehicle registration.

Many companies choose to stay below 10k GVWR because most states require extra fees and regulation for DOT trucks above 10k. This is why Ford offers an option to de-rate an F350 from a 12k GVWR to a 10k GVWR. Exact same truck as a regular F350, but Ford will list its GVWR as 10k so you don't have to pay the added state fees and DOT regulations.

Ram seems to take a different approach by beefing up their 2500's very close to a 3500 for those that want a HD truck under 10k GVWR. However, all of the manufacturers ratings are meaningless in the eyes of the law. What matters is the GVWR you pay to register your truck at. In places like Texas, you can actually pay for a higher GVWR than what your truck is rated for by the manufacturer and legally haul that amount.

 

[TMyers]

This is a great thread! I have a 2013 CTD with the rear leaf springs. I recently looked at a 3500 SRW and I could not see any difference in the suspension. My trucks GVWR is exactly 10K but if you add up both axle max weights per RAM, it totals 11,500. So, if I'm reading correctly, the 10K GVWR is a 2500 Class max but my two combined axle weights are real world.

 

[JMod45]

Really good info, thank you guys.

Didn't realize that the GVWR of a 3/4 ton had to be under 10k by law, so that is why the rear axle has room to spare.

Also hadn't realized that the 3500s have leaf springs, that would change things too.

Registration fees hadn't even crossed my mind, I may look into those, just to say I know. lol



On a side note, SouthTexan, reading your quote at the bottom,

2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab Laramie 6.7L CTD 3.42
EFI tuning from Hardway Performance - Borg Warner S364.5/80/.91 AR turbo - T4 Pulse manifold - ARP 425 head studs - AFE HD Momentum Intake - Flow-Pro 5" Turbo-back w/muffler - Built 68RFE - Thuren 2" kit w/ Track Bar"

I may have to see this thing. I'm new to the diesel world, and have some friends who have deleted, and modified theirs, so I've been slowly looking into it. Sounds like you've modified about all of it.

 

[SouthTexan]

I may have to see this thing. I'm new to the diesel world, and have some friends who have deleted, and modified theirs, so I've been slowly looking into it. Sounds like you've modified about all of it.

Well I am still on stock fuel pump and injectors which is why I went with a small(ish) turbo for a 6.7L. I could have gone much bigger, but didn't want to mess with the fuel system yet and wanted something that will tow well on stock fuel. It spools slightly slower than stock, but comes on much stronger once it is spooled. It also out flows the stock turbo by a mile which allows you to make more power with less boost and lowers EGT's. The best part(to me) is that it is a fixed geometry turbo so it is more reliable than stock.

If I didn't tow what I do and upgraded the fuel system, then I would have gone with an S467.

 

[Walkdog]

Ram built there trucks the way they did for a reason. Yes i'd like to possibly do a delete and all this crap for better fuel mileage, but ram put all this on there for a reason so I leave it there. Also as far as it goes between 2500 and 3500 no comparision when actually using. I have a single cab dually with a 6200 lb payload. You wont see that or even close with a 3/4 ton or most one tons.

Don't just jump out and buy a 3/4 ton diesel thinking you can pull anything you want, because you cant! When in doubt, go big, better to go big now than regret it later

 

[Binkmann10]

Not long ago I owned a 2500 and bought a Lance 825 camper for it which is reportedly made for half-ton pickups. One day while reading my truck specs, I saw I was actually overloading the truck with the camper and 2 passengers. It was explained to me that the Cummins 2500 has a lower payload (not towing) capacity than a gas engine due to the weight of the Cummins engine. I sold my 2500 and bought a 3500 SRW Cummins, and now have room to spare.

 

[spoon059]

In places like Texas, you can actually pay for a higher GVWR than what your truck is rated for by the manufacturer and legally haul that amount.

Same in Maryland.

 

[bartbill]

Same in Maryland.

I wonder what the insurance folks think about that. I mean tagged at a weight above the yellow sticker on the door of the truck

BTW the folks over on the Keystone forum would go absolutely apoplectic over this.

 

[SouthTexan]

I wonder what the insurance folks think about that. I mean tagged at a weight above the yellow sticker on the door of the truck

BTW the folks over on the Keystone forum would go absolutely apoplectic over this.

The insurance folks would probably do the same thing they did before regulations required manufacturers to install these sticker after model year 2001, nothing. Manufacturers were required to add this sticker after the TREAD Act of 2000 was passed due to the Ford Explorer and Firestone rollovers of the late 90's. The rating is for the EXACT tire size and ratings that the vehicle came with from the factory(hence the reason why they call out the tires) and if you put anything else than those tires with a different size and/or load rating then that sticker is about as useless as a blinker on a BMW.

If you look at the writing in the NHTSA requirement, the sticker is meant to make manufacturers inform people of vehicle/tire ratings on any vehicle that leaves their factory, not to enforce those ratings on the consumer especially since some GVWR's and types of vehicles are exempt from having these stickers.

 

[Elkman]

3/4 ton by law gvwr has to be under 10,000 lbs.

Where did you dream that up? There is no law regarding a 2500 or 1500 or 3500 truck. These are designations by the manufacturers that refer to a sub class of trucks.

When I bought my 2500 it had a higher payload rating than all the 3500 trucks with the same cab and bed with the exception of the regular cab where the passenger weight allowance is much less. It also came from the factory with a GVWR of 11,000 lbs. which only served to increase my DMV fees by $1,000.

Most of the trucks in this class have rear axles and wheel bearings that support over 10,000 lbs. and subtracting the 2,700 lb weight of the truck that leaves 7300 lbs of possible payload. The factory calculations are based on the wheels and the tires and the frame and the springs. Ram upgraded the frame on the 3500 trucks in 2013 and later upgraded the frame on the 2014 Ram 2500. So one is left with the load capacity of the coil springs used on the two trucks and no simple way to increase the payload as one can easily do with leaf springs.

 

[bdc2]

Where did you dream that up? There is no law regarding a 2500 or 1500 or 3500 truck. These are designations by the manufacturers that refer to a sub class of trucks.

When I bought my 2500 it had a higher payload rating than all the 3500 trucks with the same cab and bed with the exception of the regular cab where the passenger weight allowance is much less. It also came from the factory with a GVWR of 11,000 lbs. which only served to increase my DMV fees by $1,000.

Most of the trucks in this class have rear axles and wheel bearings that support over 10,000 lbs. and subtracting the 2,700 lb weight of the truck that leaves 7300 lbs of possible payload. The factory calculations are based on the wheels and the tires and the frame and the springs. Ram upgraded the frame on the 3500 trucks in 2013 and later upgraded the frame on the 2014 Ram 2500. So one is left with the load capacity of the coil springs used on the two trucks and no simple way to increase the payload as one can easily do with leaf springs.

 

[bdc2]

No these are class 1, 2,3 dot classifications. Meaning if your gvwr goes above 10001 lbs and your using it as a commercial vehicle you are subject to more stringent safety requirements. I

 

[spoon059]

I wonder what the insurance folks think about that. I mean tagged at a weight above the yellow sticker on the door of the truck

BTW the folks over on the Keystone forum would go absolutely apoplectic over this.

Not sure what insurance has to do with anything. A 2500 would cost the exact same to insure for me as a 3500. No difference. For that matter, my Ram 2500 was a little cheaper to insure than my Toyota Tundra.

 

[spoon059]

Where did you dream that up? There is no law regarding a 2500 or 1500 or 3500 truck. These are designations by the manufacturers that refer to a sub class of trucks.

People are getting confused about what the law is and what it means. There is no law that says that a 3/4 ton truck HAS to stay below 10,000 lbs. The law simply says that to be considered a class 2B truck, it has to be at or below 10,000 lbs.

For a variety of reasons, manufacturers chose to sell trucks in that 2B class;
lots of HOAs don't allow class 3 trucks,
some states consider class 3 trucks to be commercial, therefore they have to follow commercial regs,
class 3 trucks typically have a higher registration cost,
lots of highways don't allow vehicles over 10,000 lbs in the left lanes,
etc.

For that reason, manufacturers sell the class 2B (3/4 ton) truck to fit that market. Its FAR cheaper to simply "derate" the 3/4 ton truck on paper, rather than actually derate the truck in reality. Rather than R&R slightly cheaper parts, its easier and cheaper to use the same parts (and not stock twice as much) and simply change the numbers on the sticker. While Ford and GM only removed a spring pack in the rear, Ram decided to listen to customers who wanted a better ride. Ram put coils (with slightly less carrying capacity) on the 2500. The 6.4 Ram is rated to carry 900 lbs more than the Cummins, so Ram is pretty confident that the coils will carry that extra 900 lbs over and above what the Cummins equipped truck is rated to carry.