Anyone get a cracked frame on a 5th gen 1500 yet?

[Docwagon1776]

I am curious what roll the stiffer frames of today play as well. Frames simply used to flex more. Flexy things are less likely to crack, but more likely to bend beyond their elastic limit and therefore stay bent. How many old over loaded frames were deformed but not actually cracked as a result? I can't be the only one with childhood memories of seeing trucks with canted beds and banana shaped frames so the bed touched the cab at the top rail.

Frame flex is generally undesirable, but could be a factor here. To be clear, I'm not saying it is or it isn't, this is just a thought on my part.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Heck, my two kids are in the back of this '68 Dodge on a steep mountain dirt road. Couldn't do that today.

Sure you can. No one is paying attention once you're off the asphalt and 2 miles down that logging road.

 

[Yardbird]

Sure you can. No one is paying attention once you're off the asphalt and 2 miles down that logging road.

I'm sure. I ran 30 miles of state road to get to that road, which was almost another 30 miles of US Forest service road, then almost 50 miles home.

Nobody cared back then around here.

I still run those roads today. That picture was from 1989 or 1990.

 

[Yardbird]

To put a new wrinkle in the coil spring saga....Chevy pickups from 1960 to 1966 had coil spring rear axles, and most 1967 to 1972 C-10s had coil spring rear axles.

 

[BossHogg]

I've never yet bottomed out my 1500 on the bump stops. I think if you reach that point more than a few times you're really in the wrong truck for that load and should just upgrade to a 2500.

With timbrens, you're constantly hitting that same spot in the frame, even if it is somewhat dampened. The entire trip, you're "pummelling" that spot over and over. I'm not sure how the coils work in our setup, haven't looked closely, perhaps that section of the frame/truck is reinforced better, but if you use that progressive spring argument the factory coils are far more forgiving and progressive than timbrens and so will have the least chance of damage.

You are right, if you are hitting the bump stops you need an HD but then again, you have to wonder why this thread exists.

I don't think you quite understand how the Timbrens work. Under normal loading, your axle should never touch the Timbrens. I believe their purpose (from reading descriptions) is if you are loaded near your payload rating and traveling you come across an uneven roadway or road bumps, the Timbrens will prevent the hard hit of the axle to the frame and/or reduce/slow vertical axle travel resulting in maintaining vehicle stability. I didn't see any suggestions their purpose was to increase payload.

I do not know how the factory coils work but I doubt they are progressive in the sense that the Timbrens are. Factory coils are not capable of dampening, that is what shocks are for.

I'm not defending any of this, I simply did some reading and watched a few YT videos out of curiosity. If I have heavy hauling to do, I grab the FOB for my 3500.

 

[ramffml]

You are right, if you are hitting the bump stops you need an HD but then again, you have to wonder why this thread exists.

I don't think you quite understand how the Timbrens work. Under normal loading, your axle should never touch the Timbrens. I believe their purpose (from reading descriptions) is if you are loaded near your payload rating and traveling you come across an uneven roadway or road bumps, the Timbrens will prevent the hard hit of the axle to the frame and/or reduce/slow vertical axle travel resulting in maintaining vehicle stability. I didn't see any suggestions their purpose was to increase payload.

I do not know how the factory coils work but I doubt they are progressive in the sense that the Timbrens are. Factory coils are not capable of dampening, that is what shocks are for.

I'm not defending any of this, I simply did some reading and watched a few YT videos out of curiosity. If I have heavy hauling to do, I grab the FOB for my 3500.

It depends on your load. On the 1500's with timbrens, there is about a 3/4 inch air gap unloaded. After that, you're definitely riding the timbrens permanently. Which means any sort of load that (say) requires a WDH, you're going to be riding the timbrens, that's what they're there for. If you're not riding them permanently under load, then you don't need them. They are designed to assist the suspension under load, they're not there to be just a softer bump stop.

The factory coils are definitely progressive. You can see that just by looking at them, they have tighter spacing and looser spacing on different sides of the coil.

For the shocks, yes, they are not meant to carry the load. The coils carry the load, but the shocks DO control it. If you have porposing issues, your first thought may be to add stuff like timbrens when actually shocks can help the porpoising as well.

 

[Riccochet]

The stock shocks are trash as far a compression and rebound damping goes under heavy load. But that's also why the 1500 has a soft ride unloaded. They were the #1 reason I added Airlift 1000 in coil bags to both of my 1500's. All they do is stiffen the springs to help support the weight of a heavy load, but they gave enough to allow decent travel of the suspension. In that scenario the stock shocks were adequate.

Ram cornered the market on the nicest riding 1500, that's for sure. But it comes at a cost. Payload and handling. I also added Helwig rear sway bars to my 1500's. Huge improvement. I'd like to see them at least offer a leaf spring option with increased payload.

I do agree with the theory that broken frames are the product of people overloading these trucks. Coupled with soft springs and shocks that are less than stellar at damping. A lot of axles smashing in to bump stops. Something is going to break, eventually.

Oddly, we don't see that on the 2500's. To be fair, they do have a much stiffer, stronger frame and suspension. I have zero complaints about the damping of my stock shocks. Though I'm only using about 35% of my payload while towing compared to 80% on my 1500's.

But, the other theory that holds true is, if you find yourself modifying a 1500 to fit your towing/hauling needs, you need a bigger truck. Just get the bigger truck and be done with it. You'll be happy you did.

 

[Randy Grant]

This is frame flex at it's best

Frame Twist Test: 2014 Ram 3500 vs. 2014 Ford F350

Frame twist test: 2014 Ram 3500 vs 2014 Ford F350 #troncallityler

www.youtube.com

Chevy Silverado 3500HD Head to Head Frame Strength Test No. 2 Twist Ditch

In one of the most dramatic tests, Silverado 3500HD and Ford F-350 trucks were loaded with 3,000 pounds of payload and driven over a set of ramps designed to...

www.youtube.com

 

[2003F350]

But, the other theory that holds true is, if you find yourself modifying a 1500 to fit your towing/hauling needs, you need a bigger truck. Just get the bigger truck and be done with it. You'll be happy you did.

I mean it all comes down to this right here. If you are physically modifying the truck (adding air bags, Timbrens, whatever) to haul the load you've got, you don't really have the right truck for the job.

Are these trucks built like the trucks of old? Definitely not, and honestly I wouldn't buy one if they were - I and my wife like the creature comforts, the much comfier seats, and the mileage of new trucks over older ones. Do they handle heavy weight as well (at least 1500s)? No, but for MOST PEOPLE who are buying them (who probably don't really need a truck anyway), they fit the bill just fine.

 

[Randy Grant]

If you can't fix squat with a load leveler hitch, then you need a different truck. The hitch retains the trucks suspension in a stock configuration. If a load leveler hitch can't fix the problem, then change the hitch setup, the truck, or the tow.

 

[2022BigHorn]

So, should I be worried about towing a 7,000Lbs 18' flatbed tandem axle trailer in the mountains with this truck or would I snap/crack my frame? Should I consider installing a weight distribution system?

 

[wvfarrier]

This is probably the first time I have seen someone refer to timbrens as "trash". I have run them on every truck I have owned in the last 20 years, zero complaints. I haul horses quite a bit but would definitely not do so with my 1500. I used to haul them with my Tundra bit the rear suspension on the Ram just does not seem up to it. I have a larger truck for that.

 

[KalboKalbs]

I've towed my 7x11 single axle enclosed trailer empty with my 21 Ram and I noticed a lot of flexing of the bed in my mirrors. My 11 ram pulled the same trailer with 2 big harley davidsons in it and I never noticed the flexing like the 21 has. I love my 21 but I think they are very weak trucks. This is the trailer on my 11.View attachment 524641

Good to know. Thanks for posting.

 

[18CrewDually]

This is probably the first time I have seen someone refer to timbrens as "trash". I have run them on every truck I have owned in the last 20 years, zero complaints. I haul horses quite a bit but would definitely not do so with my 1500. I used to haul them with my Tundra bit the rear suspension on the Ram just does not seem up to it. I have a larger truck for that.

Not everyone voices their opinions about everything, including Timbrens. For me, all my trucks had and will have airbags. Timbrens are a glorified bump stop. I would not run them. They put a concentration of the load and shock on the frame instead of being split across the frame between two ends of a leaf spring.
And that brings up coil springs in the rear of a truck. You can keep them and the Timbrens.
Now you heard 2 people. Plenty of others with experience on camper forums too that switch bag to airbags. But luckily we can still make that choice.

 

[tron67j]

As 18CD above said earlier (like months ago) in this thread, too much tongue weight and bouncing are a bad combination. So if that 7k trailer has all the weight forward of the axles then yes, 2022BH should be thinking about how to redistribute. All about balance and proper loading. Bags or a WDH aren't going to fix a really bad load. I keep thinking back to that guy with the truck camper that bent his frame in half and was gobsmacked that it could happen.

I have seen those utility trailers have so much junk in front of the trailer axle that it takes a strong floor jack to get it unhitched.

 

[Randy Grant]

Shocks, bags, or springs prevent point "shock" load. WDH helps keep the truck and load off of the bump/ Timbrens, reducing the chance of a point load. Any time there is a point load, the impact is direct and instant. Shocks and the like, whatever they are, soften the impact over a longer curve of time, reducing the chance of damage. Same force, but spread out over a longer period of time and over more points of suspension points.
If you have Timbrens and have never had a problem, great, you haven't been overloading and sitting on them over a period of time. Bur like the guy that broke his frame in Mexico with camper on, he was grossly overloaded and had way too much weight behind the axle, and that is why his claim was denied.
Point is, pay attention to the load, and how it is affecting the truck.

 

[ramffml]

This is probably the first time I have seen someone refer to timbrens as "trash". I have run them on every truck I have owned in the last 20 years, zero complaints. I haul horses quite a bit but would definitely not do so with my 1500. I used to haul them with my Tundra bit the rear suspension on the Ram just does not seem up to it. I have a larger truck for that.

The old tundra has an even weaker frame, it's an open C channel IIRC. The Ram is at least fully boxed.

 

[wvfarrier]

The old tundra has an even weaker frame, it's an open C channel IIRC. The Ram is at least fully boxed.

Then I have zero fear of towing with my RAM because I beat the bejeebers out of my 2016 Tundra

 

[ramffml]

Then I have zero fear of towing with my RAM because I beat the bejeebers out of my 2016 Tundra

I have zero fear of towing my truck too. But I won't use those silly suspension helpers anymore. WDH is all I'll use and if it's still sagging excessively then I need a bigger truck. After setting up my Anderson WDH I've had the best setup yet, and I've tried sumo springs with husky centerline and I've tried air bags with husky and both those setups were dicey even though it looked visually far better.

Better to have a little bit of sag with a properly setup system than a system that looks good but handles terribly.

 

[Tulecreeper]

I have zero fear of towing my truck too. But I won't use those silly suspension helpers anymore. WDH is all I'll use and if it's still sagging excessively then I need a bigger truck. After setting up my Anderson WDH I've had the best setup yet, and I've tried sumo springs with husky centerline and I've tried air bags with husky and both those setups were dicey even though it looked visually far better.

Better to have a little bit of sag with a properly setup system than a system that looks good but handles terribly.

^^^ That ^^^

Although under most circumstances a WDH will take care of all the sag, that doesn't necessarily mean you're overloaded if there is still a bit. If I'm towing an 8000# trailer, my tongue weight should be no more than about 1000#. If it is at 1000#, and my WDH is just barely able to take out all the sag but it can't quite do it with 1100#, that doesn't mean much other than aesthetics.