Anyone get a cracked frame on a 5th gen 1500 yet?

[Randy Grant]

Yupp dealing with same issue. 21 ram 1500 6'4 bed. And I am lifted 3.5 with wheels. And I have airlift 5k set at 50 psi. And my just split right above the airlift bags that are on the axel. I tow a 7x16 enclosed. With 2 mowers. Closer up by the nose and 1 over the axel. My weight is 5200lbs of trailer weight total. Tounge wait is at 925. These trucks are supposed to handle 1200lb of tounge wait according to dealer yesterday. 8/1/23 so not sure. But I'm being denied because I modified my truck. It's a 21 with 36k miles. I had an 18 with air lift and never had this issue. With same setup. I think it's a 5th issue.weak ass frames. So I'm getting away from ram :/

That's because you point load impact at the air bag, and there is little suspension flex.

 

[Yardbird]

If the frames are breaking this easy, they are junk. Back in the day, (I Know), we used a truck like a truck, and never had frame trouble.

Almost every truck I bought, I put an extra long leaf in the spring pack plus a set of the bolt on coils that bolted to the rear axle and the frame dropped against them when loaded. All were 1/2 ton, 2WD long bed trucks. When it snowed, I would go to the store and load a 1 ton pallet of shrink wrapped lime and go anywhere, usually to the mountains. Never any problems.

I hauled or pulled anything I wanted. Loads of 1 ton plus were common. Never had a frame issue. Maybe it's because all those trucks were Fords?......NO, had an '82 Ram I did the same thing with.

Heck, we put a one ton pallet of fertilizer on the back of a 1980 VW pickup and transferred it from one store to the other over 10 miles away. It was dragging the ground and the 'ole diesel was pouring the smoke, but it made it.

My point is, these new frames are sub-standard. This is a truck we're talking about that's made to haul things.

 

[Riccochet]

There's a difference between hauling and towing. Hauling puts the load over the axle, towing puts it behind it. You can't escape physics with springs and air bags. Leverage will win every time. When the axle is being used as a fulcrum point by the frame it doesn't matter what kind of frame it is, eventually you are going to reach it's bend/break point if enough leverage is placed on it.

I never understood the point of those Timbren or extended bump stops. You are literally riding the frame on the axle under load. When you hit a bump all of that bumps energy is transferred directly in to the frame with however much tongue weight leveraging down on the frame. Physics. Trailer tongue and frame are at rest, tends to stay at rest, axle is now in motion moving upward, only it has no where to go. So all of that energy is directly transferred in to the frame that is between the trailer and axle.

Snap

 

[Yardbird]

I used to pull a home made car trailer made out of 6" channel iron and steel checker deck plate with no problems. Did that for years also. Even pulled it with my '68 100 Dodge with a slant six and a granny 4 speed someone had put in it for pulling.

I put two extra leafs in all four springs on that truck.

Except for this 2018 ram, I've always used my trucks as trucks.

 

[20IndyRam]

There's a difference between hauling and towing. Hauling puts the load over the axle, towing puts it behind it. You can't escape physics with springs and air bags. Leverage will win every time. When the axle is being used as a fulcrum point by the frame it doesn't matter what kind of frame it is, eventually you are going to reach it's bend/break point if enough leverage is placed on it.

I never understood the point of those Timbren or extended bump stops. You are literally riding the frame on the axle under load. When you hit a bump all of that bumps energy is transferred directly in to the frame with however much tongue weight leveraging down on the frame. Physics. Trailer tongue and frame are at rest, tends to stay at rest, axle is now in motion moving upward, only it has no where to go. So all of that energy is directly transferred in to the frame that is between the trailer and axle.

Snap

What he said ^^^.

Add to that the fact that since the 4th gen we have coil springs on our Rams. Coils are nice, variable rate and give us a comfy ride. They also exert a point load on our frames. Leaf springs put a distributed load across a much longer frame area. The same frame with a coil spring and same loading will likely fail earlier.

Add to that our quest for better fuel economy and we have arrived here. The frames are probably lighter, weaker, and spec'd CORRECTLY. We need to learn that we can't overload our trucks like we did back in the 70's. If you are saying that my 90's 1500 ram could handle overloading and high tongue load abuse, you may be exactly correct. Current 1500's are different animals.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I never understood the point of those Timbren or extended bump stops. You are literally riding the frame on the axle under load. When you hit a bump all of that bumps energy is transferred directly in to the frame with however much tongue weight leveraging down on the frame. Physics.

The point is to spread the transfer of energy over time and conversion of energy, also physics. Total energy imparted is only part of the equation. Some people have already mentioned spreading the load over more physical surface, but it can also be affected by spreading it over more *time* as well.

Let's take an extreme example to illustrate the point. A swing of a hammer imparts a given amount of energy to a nail in a very short amount of time. We all know the result is the nail is driven into the wood. If you take the hammer and *shove* the nail, exerting the same amount of energy overall but spread out over a 2 minute window, does the nail penetrate the wood? No. It needs that quick spike of energy to overwhelm the connective forces of the wood fibers.

A bump stop is going to take some applied force and convert it to spring force. That force will be stored in the bump stop, and some will be transferred to the frame, some to the impacting suspension component, and some used internally to compress and expand itself.

The bump stop absorbs some energy as it compresses, slows the suspension components travel prior to the full impact of bottoming out, and makes the energy more of a shove than a strike while absorbing some of it.

 

[2020PW]

Yupp dealing with same issue. 21 ram 1500 6'4 bed. And I am lifted 3.5 with wheels. And I have airlift 5k set at 50 psi. And my just split right above the airlift bags that are on the axel. I tow a 7x16 enclosed. With 2 mowers. Closer up by the nose and 1 over the axel. My weight is 5200lbs of trailer weight total. Tounge wait is at 925. These trucks are supposed to handle 1200lb of tounge wait according to dealer yesterday. 8/1/23 so not sure. But I'm being denied because I modified my truck. It's a 21 with 36k miles. I had an 18 with air lift and never had this issue. With same setup. I think it's a 5th issue.weak ass frames. So I'm getting away from ram :/

Wait, you can’t modify your truck and then expect the manufacture to pay the bill when something breaks.

Who would have thought….. play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

You don’t say that the issue is at the airbags. Common sense says if you need air bags, you need a bigger truck.

 

[Ram Vendetta]

Wait, you can’t modify your truck and then expect the manufacture to pay the bill when something breaks.

Who would have thought….. play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

You don’t say that the issue is at the airbags. Common sense says if you need air bags, you need a bigger truck.

 

[2003F350]

This is a truck we're talking about that's made to haul things.

Except most half-ton series trucks AREN'T used as trucks anymore. Haven't in several years, really. They aren't targeted at people who need a truck but don't need a BIG truck, they're targeted at families who want to go on vacation on a budget, or might sometimes haul a few bags of dirt and flowers home.

Notice how the road isn't filled with cars and a few trucks anymore? It's mostly SUVs and half-ton trucks, with a few 2500+ trucks mixed in. There has been a shift in this country away from cars, which is part of why automakers have to cut weight everywhere they can - trucks don't meet mileage guidelines the way cars could. But people are buying half-ton, CCSB trucks, throwing toppers/tonneau covers on the bed, and using them as family vehicles - many won't ever see anything put in the bed but luggage and golf clubs. For instance, if my wife's truck sees more than groceries and some occasional lumber for a small project in the bed, I'd be highly surprised.

We have honestly reached a tipping point, where a 1500 almost can't be called a truck anymore. And if you need something with truck capabilities, you're going to have to pony up and buy something bigger.

 

[Yardbird]

It's still a shame you can't us a truck as a truck without worrying about cracking the frame.

Almost every truck I have owned since my first one in the '70s has been worked at, or well above, their ratings. I can pretty well guarantee I won't try that with my 2018 Ram.

 

[2003F350]

It's still a shame you can't us a truck as a truck without worrying about cracking the frame.

Almost every truck I have owned since my first one in the '70s has been worked at, or well above, their ratings. I can pretty well guarantee I won't try that with my 2018 Ram.

I don't disagree with you! It really is sad to see how much they've taken out of half-ton trucks. My grandpa used to head over to the grainery once a month to get feed for his pigs, and he only ever owned regular cab, 2WD long box half tons. The ride back to the farm was ALWAYS at about 25mph while riding on the bump stops, and he never had a failure.

I wouldn't try it in a newer half ton truck from anyone. They just aren't built the same as they used to be, mostly for the reasons I outlined before. And you really can't blame automakers completely, because while they can somewhat steer the market by what they offer, they also have to react to the market, and the market wants trucks that ride, handle, and get the mileage of cars, instead of just buying a car.

 

[2020PW]

It's still a shame you can't us a truck as a truck without worrying about cracking the frame.

Almost every truck I have owned since my first one in the '70s has been worked at, or well above, their ratings. I can pretty well guarantee I won't try that with my 2018 Ram.

You can use it as a truck, just have to apply common sense. Exceeding the rating is ignorant, get a bigger truck or pay the consequences.

 

[BossHogg]

I never understood the point of those Timbren or extended bump stops. You are literally riding the frame on the axle under load. When you hit a bump all of that bumps energy is transferred directly in to the frame

From what I've read and understood, a product like the Timbren replaces the factory hard bump stop with a progressive spring load that can dampen or eliminate the "hard" hit of the axle to the frame. To me, this reduces or removes the hard hit that can cause damage like the example used earlier in this thread of a "hammer hitting the nail" effect.

If I fall I'd rather land on a spring mattress than on the hard floor so a Timbren-like product makes sense to me. As the old saying goes, it isn't the fall that will kill you, it is the sudden stop.

 

[ramffml]

From what I've read and understood, a product like the Timbren replaces the factory hard bump stop with a progressive spring load that can dampen or eliminate the "hard" hit of the axle to the frame. To me, this reduces or removes the hard hit that can cause damage like the example used earlier in this thread of a "hammer hitting the nail" effect.

If I fall I'd rather land on a spring mattress than on the hard floor so a Timbren-like product makes sense to me. As the old saying goes, it isn't the fall that will kill you, it is the sudden stop.

I've never yet bottomed out my 1500 on the bump stops. I think if you reach that point more than a few times you're really in the wrong truck for that load and should just upgrade to a 2500.

With timbrens, you're constantly hitting that same spot in the frame, even if it is somewhat dampened. The entire trip, you're "pummelling" that spot over and over. I'm not sure how the coils work in our setup, haven't looked closely, perhaps that section of the frame/truck is reinforced better, but if you use that progressive spring argument the factory coils are far more forgiving and progressive than timbrens and so will have the least chance of damage.

After reading this thread I'm now firmly in the "leave your truck alone" camp. I might try bilsteins or better shocks to control the load a little better, but nothing anymore to try and carry it.

 

[Riccochet]

I've never yet bottomed out my 1500 on the bump stops. I think if you reach that point more than a few times you're really in the wrong truck for that load and should just upgrade to a 2500.

With timbrens, you're constantly hitting that same spot in the frame, even if it is somewhat dampened. The entire trip, you're "pummelling" that spot over and over. I'm not sure how the coils work in our setup, haven't looked closely, perhaps that section of the frame/truck is reinforced better, but if you use that progressive spring argument the factory coils are far more forgiving and progressive than timbrens and so will have the least chance of damage.

After reading this thread I'm now firmly in the "leave your truck alone" camp. I might try bilsteins or better shocks to control the load a little better, but nothing anymore to try and carry it.

I'm firmly in the "get more truck than you think you'll need" camp after owning two 1500's that just didn't cut it, even after mods. You might upgrade one thing, but you're simply passing the stress buck to something else.

 

[CanRebel]

If the frames are breaking this easy, they are junk. Back in the day, (I Know), we used a truck like a truck, and never had frame trouble.

Almost every truck I bought, I put an extra long leaf in the spring pack plus a set of the bolt on coils that bolted to the rear axle and the frame dropped against them when loaded. All were 1/2 ton, 2WD long bed trucks. When it snowed, I would go to the store and load a 1 ton pallet of shrink wrapped lime and go anywhere, usually to the mountains. Never any problems.

I hauled or pulled anything I wanted. Loads of 1 ton plus were common. Never had a frame issue. Maybe it's because all those trucks were Fords?......NO, had an '82 Ram I did the same thing with.

Heck, we put a one ton pallet of fertilizer on the back of a 1980 VW pickup and transferred it from one store to the other over 10 miles away. It was dragging the ground and the 'ole diesel was pouring the smoke, but it made it.

My point is, these new frames are sub-standard. This is a truck we're talking about that's made to haul things.

You know why you can't use a Truck like you say you use too???

It's not quality , it's not safety, or any of that crap. It's because of the internet and forums like this...

You hear and see it more and more because things are 'shared'

When I was young, we would go camping/fishing/hunting almost every week. Tow trailer and tons of crap. Half time, we didn't even add tow chains.
One of my uncles had cap on his ram truck. 6 kids in back in bed bouncing around. front/back set was full of adults, plus towing big trailer. driving 1000-2000 km north on 'road' that wasn't even a road.

Now everyone has dash cams , phones, etc... Posting. So you see all issues way more then you ever did.

 

[Yardbird]

You know why you can't use a Truck like you say you use too???

It's not quality , it's not safety, or any of that crap. It's because of the internet and forums like this...

You hear and see it more and more because things are 'shared'

When I was young, we would go camping/fishing/hunting almost every week. Tow trailer and tons of crap. Half time, we didn't even add tow chains.
One of my uncles had cap on his ram truck. 6 kids in back in bed bouncing around. front/back set was full of adults, plus towing big trailer. driving 1000-2000 km north on 'road' that wasn't even a road.

Now everyone has dash cams , phones, etc... Posting. So you see all issues way more then you ever did.

Heck, we used to just ride in the back of an open bed. Lots of people did around here. Not saying it's safe, but we did it.

Heck, my two kids are in the back of this '68 Dodge on a steep mountain dirt road. Couldn't do that today.


I know a half ton shouldn't be overloaded like I used to, but they should be able to do what they are supposed to do without breaking in half.

 

[Randy Grant]

The issue with the cracked frame isn't overload in general, it is how/where the load is applied. If you run at or above the limit IN the bed, it is distributed evenly for the most part, because of the bed attachment to the frame. If you overload behind the rear axle, as in a bumper pull trailer, with bump stops, or bags, or whatever you have at the axle location, then that is a pivot point, and the rest of the truck is on the other side of that point. A few impacts later, something has to give, and it does. The frames in modern trucks are indeed lighter, and not as strong as the tanks we grew up with, so we have to use our common sense and think first. Back then, the tires, or "U"-joints were the weak link.

truck frame failure - Google Search

 

[CanRebel]

@Yardbird But how many really are breaking "now" compared to before?

You know it in Today's world cause social media and camera's etc... Like post about the crazy guy in Baja with WAY over loaded Truck and it split. That could have happened even if the truck was empty, new or old.
We know it cause it was posted. Otherwise we wouldn't be aware it even happened.

Nice truck. You would likely get charged with child abuse in todays world That was like my uncle's just with the trailer. And the windows wouldn't open in back

 

[chri5k]

The older trucks had leaf springs which tend to spread the force out along a larger area of the frame. The coil springs tend to concentrate the force on a single point of the frame.