Changing 8-speed ZF transmission fluid : progress

[Kraken]

In progress pictorial, pretty disappointed in the thin ass, week POS filter media.

 

[stenerson]

Great pics. Two questions. Is that your first fluid change on this truck? How many miles?

 

[TJP440]

In progress pictorial, pretty disappointed in the thin ass, week POS filter media.

View attachment 565426View attachment 565427

So the filter is accessible but not replaceable.
Next question is are non OEM pan filters (PPE etc.) any better?

 

[Wild one]

So the filter is accessible but not replaceable.
Next question is are non OEM pan filters (PPE etc.) any better?

Yes,for one they aren't composite plastic,they're a heavy duty aluminium pan.
2: they utilize a replacable filter
3: you can get them in 1 and 2 quart bigger capacities
4: if you keep the truck long enough to do another transmission service,they pretty well pay for themselves.

If you've never serviced the 8 speed in your 14,it's due.ZF reconmends servicing between 50,000 and 80,000 miles "or" every 8 years.
Even if your truck has less then 50,000 miles on it,you're well past the 8 year mark

 

[TJP440]

On the list, have to find the time between all the other shutting down business/ acreage owner/ house maintenance fun things

Though about hitting the yards looking for an aluminum pan but don't have the time

 

[joesstripclub]

Yes,for one they aren't composite plastic,they're a heavy duty aluminium pan.
2: they utilize a replacable filter
3: you can get them in 1 and 2 quart bigger capacities
4: if you keep the truck long enough to do another transmission service,they pretty well pay for themselves.

If you've never serviced the 8 speed in your 14,it's due.ZF reconmends servicing between 50,000 and 80,000 miles "or" every 8 years.
Even if your truck has less then 50,000 miles on it,you're well past the 8 year mark

Is the filter any better quality though? It's been a long time since I've been in another automatic transmission so I don't have anything to go off for comparison. One would think the manufacturer would use a fairly free flowing filter so that it doesn't get clogged and stop fluid flow, so maybe what comes in the OEM pan isn't that bad?

 

[Wild one]

Is the filter any better quality though? It's been a long time since I've been in another automatic transmission so I don't have anything to go off for comparison. One would think the manufacturer would use a fairly free flowing filter so that it doesn't get clogged and stop fluid flow, so maybe what comes in the OEM pan isn't that bad?

Somebody would have to buy a new pan,cut the filter in it open,and then cut a new PPE filter open and compare them.
Not gonna be me as it's not exactly what i'd call a cheap test

 

[Kraken]

Somebody would have to buy a new pan,cut the filter in it open,and then cut a new PPE filter open and compare them.
Not gonna be me as it's not exactly what i'd call a cheap test

No.. not quite. One of you more fluid folks (pun intended), who have had a PPE pan for a while can dissect the filter at next change time.

Great pics. Two questions. Is that your first fluid change on this truck? How many miles?

My first yes.. the trucks first.. man I sure as hell hope not!

 

[Wild one]

No.. not quite. One of you more fluid folks (pun intended), who have had a PPE pan for a while can dissect the filter at next change time.

My first yes.. the trucks first.. man I sure as hell hope not!

If you're actually comparing the filter median,i'd think you'd want to use new filters,but that's only my thoughts.Once they're used it's alot tougher to do a good comparision

 

[Kraken]

No.. simply because how much can the physical properties of the medium used change? Being used doesn't or shouldn't make it thinner for example. The material used should not be about to be affected by saturation or compression.

That oem piece I pictured above was no better than that ******, cheap-assed, ******* blue **** use in hvac filtration.

for a modern automatic transmission id expect at least a filtration of say 150 microns

 

[Wild one]

No.. simply because how much can the physical properties of the medium used change? Being used doesn't or shouldn't make it thinner for example. The material used should not be about to be affected by saturation or compression.

That oem piece I pictured above was no better than that ******, cheap-assed, ******* blue **** use in hvac filtration.

for a modern automatic transmission id expect at least a filtration of say 150 microns

Part of what i consider a good comparision is feeling them,and shining a light through the filter material,and i've never had much success when comparing used filters because of that.If you watch alot of the filter comparisions where they're comparing the median material,they're usually always done with new filters.If you want to cut open used filters have at it,and let us know your findings

 

[Kraken]

See I think the measure of a good filter is how much light shines thru after it's been used. I mean a nice, new, fluffy filter can look good but if the underlying material is weak (let's say), or has more elasticity than a competitor then it won't respond as well as one with different/better specifications.
Although on the other hand, an over-used filter could exhibit different or lessor physical characteristics than a 'properly' used one.

Yeah IDK I mean I guess I'd hope.. nay expect someone like PPE who wants to charge a premium for their product.. that they are improving not just the pan itself but also the replaceable filter. Which, let's face it, is the most important part of this entire ordeal.

 

[Wild one]

See I think the measure of a good filter is how much light shines thru after it's been used. I mean a nice, new, fluffy filter can look good but if the underlying material is weak (let's say), or has more elasticity than a competitor then it won't respond as well as one with different/better specifications.
Although on the other hand, an over-used filter could exhibit different or lessor physical characteristics than a 'properly' used one.

Yeah IDK I mean I guess I'd hope.. nay expect someone like PPE who wants to charge a premium for their product.. that they are improving not just the pan itself but also the replaceable filter. Which, let's face it, is the most important part of this entire ordeal.

If you were really worried about it,you could plumb in a totally seperate remote filter.It's not like it's complicated to add a remote oil filter to the cooler lines

 

[Kraken]

I'd friggin kill to have one. Transmission AND engine oil! I was intending to look that up for the engine's filter but honestly never thought about tying into the trans cooler lines lol.

Pacbrake seems to be a good one.

 

[TJP440]

The light trick I believe evolved from Fram filters "Does you Air Filter need changing" campaign back in the 60-70's. I'm not sure it would be as useful on fluid soaked media.
With the filter media /technology available today I'm not sure there is a way to visually tell.
IMO, There are too many variables involved to conclusively say without the ability to test the filters in a laboratory environment. Throw in our overseas manufacturing and it's a roll of the dice.
Probably shouldn't have asked the question but was hoping for a determinative answer.
One could start by identifying the original use and supplier of PPE's filter. I did a bit more research on the filter replacements and found that PPE's filter only lists their part number that does not appear to cross to anything. That could be an issue if PPE goes belly up. Further investigation revealed the Autotecnica and URO pans use the same filter as the Dorman plastic pan.
Also noted the PPE filter kit is ~ 30.00 while Dorman and URO are 65-85.00

Conclusion at this time:
PPE is the only source for their pan filter. IMO that is cause for concern.
The other two have their Filter and Dorman as separate part numbers, again cause for concern but at least one has two sources.
NOTE: 1st pic, The items in the R picture are shown in additional images for the L picture, 2nd pic is Dormans site, 3rd is PPE's

IMO, If either of the 'aluminum" pan companies want to retain their edge, they need to identify the original application / use of their filters IF their is one. Also note the "special" o-ring required at filter change time for the non PPE pans. Not sure if PPE requires "SPECIAL" parts as well
Starting to make that OEM pan a little more appealing as one knows the filter media is good (or should be).
So they're gonna pipe you one way or the other

 

[Wild one]

The light trick I believe evolved from Fram filters "Does you Air Filter need changing" campaign back in the 60-70's. I'm not sure it would be as useful on fluid soaked media.
With the filter media /technology available today I'm not sure there is a way to visually tell.
IMO, There are too many variables involved to conclusively say without the ability to test the filters in a laboratory environment. Throw in our overseas manufacturing and it's a roll of the dice.
Probably shouldn't have asked the question but was hoping for a determinative answer.
One could start by identifying the original use and supplier of PPE's filter. I did a bit more research on the filter replacements and found that PPE's filter only lists their part number that does not appear to cross to anything. That could be an issue if PPE goes belly up. Further investigation revealed the Autotecnica and URO pans use the same filter as the Dorman plastic pan.
Also noted the PPE filter kit is ~ 30.00 while Dorman and URO are 65-85.00

Conclusion at this time:
PPE is the only source for their pan filter. IMO that is cause for concern.
The other two have their Filter and Dorman as separate part numbers, again cause for concern but at least one has two sources.
NOTE: 1st pic, The items in the R picture are shown in additional images for the L picture, 2nd pic is Dormans site, 3rd is PPE's

IMO, If either of the 'aluminum" pan companies want to retain their edge, they need to identify the original application / use of their filters IF their is one. Also note the "special" o-ring required at filter change time for the non PPE pans. Not sure if PPE requires "SPECIAL" parts as well
Starting to make that OEM pan a little more appealing as one knows the filter media is good (or should be).
So they're gonna pipe you one way or the other

You sure worry about alot of dumb things don't you,lol.
Buy a few extra PPE filters when you buy their pan,that's what i did,seems like a no brainer to me,should take care of you worrying about them going belly up.
If anything i think PPE might just have the best filter.
I can tell you've never had one of their filters in your hand have you,maybe order in one of their filters and have a look at it,before you decide it's not as good as the OEM filter,as all you're doing is guessing

 

[Wild one]

I'd friggin kill to have one. Transmission AND engine oil! I was intending to look that up for the engine's filter but honestly never thought about tying into the trans cooler lines lol.

Pacbrake seems to be a good one.

After looking a PacBrake kit over,it doesn't impress me,you'll notice nobody claims a psi increase with it,while my set-up increased my psi numbers by a couple psi.At the very least i'd swap their low flow 90's out for high flow versions,and i'd spend some time with a die grinder rounding off all the sharp edges i could get to.

 

[TJP440]

You sure worry about alot of dumb things don't you,lol.
Buy a few extra PPE filters when you buy their pan,that's what i did,seems like a no brainer to me,should take care of you worrying about them going belly up.
If anything i think PPE might just have the best filter.
I can tell you've never had one of their filters in your hand have you,maybe order in one of their filters and have a look at it,before you decide it's not as good as the OEM filter,as all you're doing is guessing

to a degree YES, but that's what 30+ yeas of R&D Engineering does to one.
But in all truthfulness I have questioned things since I was a child especially after November 22nd 1963 and the days/occurrences that followed.
Part of my commentary was to make others aware of the choices and possible consequences.
Your suggestion of buying and extra filter or 2 with the PPE pan was a good one.
My problem would be remembering where I put it

 

[Wild one]

to a degree YES, but that's what 30+ yeas of R&D Engineering does to one.
But in all truthfulness I have questioned things since I was a child especially after November 22nd 1963 and the days/occurrences that followed.
Part of my commentary was to make others aware of the choices and possible consequences.
Your suggestion of buying and extra filter or 2 with the PPE pan was a good one.
My problem would be remembering where I put it

If you're really worried about the filters,you could always plumb in a seperate stand alone filter into the cooler lines,it's been done for years that way in alot of motorsports applications.
I know of a couple guys who've plumbed in their own remote filters on their 10 speed Coyote Fords that are running in the 9's.
One of them is still a member here,hopefully Gary see's this and pops in,but ever since he's went to Ford he doesn't hang around here as much as he used to when he had a quick Ram.