Crossroads...which road

[65Plymouth]

a bit of a back story...

I currently have a 2016 Tradesman Power Wagon which I love and baby... I have had it two years and 1 month and only put 16k on the clock (started a new job and work from home) It has been a great truck up until last month when the trans started making a whining/whistling sound while in gear at low RPM. Trans also seemed to be acting funny...a bit of slippage and hard shifting.

Took it to the dealer and they have attempted to address the issue for the last 30 days. First they pulled the trans and replaced the front pump. Called me to pick up the truck and before I pulled out of their lot I turned around and took it back.. Still making the same damn noise.

another week passes and they think the power steering pump is making the noise. Nope.. I suggested from the beginning that I thought the sound was that of a failing torque converter. They wont listen to me and I am losing patience. I'm really not sure they know what the hell they're doing and am still waiting on answers 30 days after dropping the truck off.

Some of you might be thinking why don't I pull the truck out of the current dealer and take it to another? I thought about that but this dealer is the only local dealer that will give me a free loaner. I need a vehicle.

So, at this point I am pissed and figure that my truck in never going to be reliable again. I wont be able to trust it especially since it is probably going to need another trans teardown by a crappy tech who likely doesn't know what he's doing. I honestly think we have reached a time where if the computer isn't telling the tech what the issue is, he cant figure it out. Sad... but true.


______________________________________

Well.. I said previously that I would never buy another diesel vehicle as long as the EPA mandates all the emissions stuff hanging of the exhaust. I have changed my mind over the last few weeks. I am thinking of trading my truck in for a 2018 Tradesman with a CTD and G56. The goal being simplicity. I know the CTD isn't simplistic by nature, but I am looking for simple truck that doesn't have a bunch of features to cause problems.

I like the idea of the manual transfer case, almost no options to give me issues, and I really like the idea of the G56 (the handsshake package). I will likely delete the emissions crap during the first year of ownership. We do not emissions test here in MI. Eventually I plan on leveling the truck (Thuren), getting 17" power wagon wheels with 37s, swapping the black bumper for a black bumper with fogs from a 2018 wagon and a bunch of other minor mods...


To the group...
Tell me why I should not opt for a Cummins powered truck with the G56 and trade for a standard 6.4 bighorn for the same money or less? I pull trailers, but nothing that my 6.4 power wagon wouldn't handle with ease. As much as it might not make sense, I 'm honestly only looking at the Cummins due to the availability of the G56 and because I have lost faith in Chrysler autos. regardless of platform I do my own maintenance and can wrench diesel the same as gas.

opinions please. Not looking to start another diesel vs gas ******* contest.

sorry to be so long winded..

 

[Punishher7]

A deleted diesel can and will at some point become illegal with the swipe of a pen. It’s not a matter of if, but when. Nowadays if you don’t need, and won’t work a diesel hard, they’re not worth the trouble. Strictly my opinion of course.


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[SouthTexan]

I always laugh when people say the Cummins ins't simple as if today's chain driven, variable valve timing, variable displacement, variable ignition, adjustable intake runner gas engines are elementary and can be worked on by anyone with a basic tool set. I think it is safe to say that all engines today have some components that require more knowledge and special tools than what you would find in a typical vehicle owners garage.

This is going to be up to you and I say do the one you want will will regret not doing and wish you had later. If you see yourself regretting not getting a 6.4L two years from now then get that. If see yourself regretting not getting a diesel more then get that. All you are going to get here is what other people would do for themselves based on their own circumstances and opinions which is about as worthless as **** on a bull for you. This is not about what anyone else thinks you need, it is about what you want.

In regards to you wanting to be able to work on your own stuff. A 6.7L Cummins is not as hard to work on as some non 6.7L diesel owners believe. The only thing I would not touch is injectors because you need special software to adjust them once installed. Other then that, everything else is pretty much easy to wrench on from replacing your own turbo to adjusting your own valve lash every 150k. Even doing your own head studs is pretty straight forward.

If you go with the 6.7L and want to do your own deletes, PM me if you have any questions. It is really simple but there are steps to follow.

 

[65Plymouth]

Ok... thanks... any opinions on the G56?

Not insinuating that the CTD is ultra complicated or any more complicated than a gasser, just didn't want my "simplistic" comment to be taken the wrong way.. I am looking for a simple truck (bare bones) with very few opinions.

 

[SouthTexan]

The G56 is fine, but if your delete adds more power then you will need to upgrade the clutch. The stock clutch will not last long at power levels above stock. The G56 itself will handle power levels from your basic mods like a tuner, intake, and exhaust which is about 520 hp because you start to run out of air with the 6.7L at that point and need a bigger turbo to go further.

 

[65Plymouth]

A deleted diesel can and will at some point become illegal with the swipe of a pen. It’s not a matter of if, but when. Nowadays if you don’t need, and won’t work a diesel hard, they’re not worth the trouble. Strictly my opinion of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah.. I agree for the most part. I doubt the trump admin will turn the screws on diesel emissions. We will likely have to wait for the next dem to get elected.

 

[65Plymouth]

The G56 is fine, but if your delete adds more power then you will need to upgrade the clutch. The stock clutch will not last long at power levels above stock. The G56 itself will handle power levels from your basic mods like a tuner, intake, and exhaust.

When I delete I will probably be looking at a very mild tune. Not racing looking to pull sleds. lol.

any idea why the Manual trucks are detuned from the factory? Can the G56 not handle even factory power levels found with the auto and aisin

 

[SouthTexan]

When I delete I will probably be looking at a very mild tune. Not racing looking to pull sleds. lol.

Well then all you need is a double or triple disc clutch along with the mild tune and you would be good. I have been running a 450 rwhp as a daily tune for about 80k miles and I don't need much more than that most of the time. There are those times that I have to show some jack ass how nice my tailgate looks so I have to reach down to turn my switch to the 515 rwhp tune, but that is very rare.

 

[65Plymouth]

I guess what I am really having a hard time with is trying to decide if the CTD will be a better road tripper than the 6.4. I will likely be pulling a small trailer for family vacations occasionally and will likely NOT be using the CTD for it's intended purpose.

I know many will probably tyell me that unless I am loaded heavy, the cummins will be a waste of money. But then I am left wondering if the guys that own a truck with the CTD pull giant trailers 99.9999% of the time, or like me, daily drive it and pull 20% of the time.

seems like almost every CTD I have noticed lately is without trailer. Leads me to believe more people are using them for commuter trucks or daily drivers.

 

[SouthTexan]

Well, you can do the math to see it if is worth it to you. For me, with gas and diesel prices being so close, the interest rate on my loan being so low, and Cummins HD holding their value considerably more than gas HD trucks in my area, the 6.5% sales tax rate in Texas; a 6.4L would actually cost me more in total cost of ownership than my 6.7L if I would have kept it stock and traded it in at 100k. When I deleted, the cost of ownership decreased even more for my 6.7L since I gained 3 mpg.

Everyone is different though due to the different variables in the things I mentioned above. Some may find the 6.4L less expensive in total cost of ownership which is why I say do the math. However, when it is all said and done, the total cost over ownership is generally no more than $2k either way from each other at 100k miles for most. So it is basically a wash in cost over the coarse of its lifetime. It just depends on when you want to pay for it. Up front, or at the end.

Here is what it came out for me at 75k which I did for another forum. Fuel here is generally about $.30 higher in the summer and $.50 in the winter so I just put it at $.40 higher as an average.

 

[MADDOG]

I've towed the same 5'vr, with an average of 10,500 pounds loaded weight, with both the 6.4L HEMI & the 6.7L CTD.

The 6.4L did fine except on some of the steeper grades I traverse. The higher the ambient temperature, the more it struggled. Average hwy mileage, with no load, was around 15MPG if I stayed around 65 - 68 MPH. Loaded, with the trailer, it struggled to get 10MPG.

The 6.7L, OTOH, has no problem whatsoever puliing the same load over the same grades in the same ambient temperatures. Average hwy mileage, with no load, is around 22MPG. Towing the same trailer I get around 13 - 15MPG.

With diesel actually being almost $0.40 cheaper than 92 octane here, which I burned in the 6.4L truck, payback on the additional capital cost to purchase the Cummins engine won't take as long as I thought it would, even with the cost of required services.

The HEMI is a great engine but a deleted Cummins is soooo much more fun to drive. Not sure what that's worth in dollars but it's worth a LOT more grins.

 

[Ratket]

I vote the ******’s. I had a 6.4 mega... we traded it for a 18 1500 for my wife... next truck for me will be a tradesman Cummins.

 

[tidefan1967]

Go with the Cummins/G56 combo. When you delete you can go with a delete tune with stock/economy power level setting that will only bump the HP/TQ up slightly and probably not enough to hurt the tranny/clutch at all. Another thing is just because you have some extra power due to the tune doesn't mean you necessarily have to use it also.

 

[Iron Outlaw]

Well, you can do the math to see it if is worth it to you. For me, with gas and diesel prices being so close, the interest rate on my loan being so low, and Cummins HD holding their value considerably more than gas HD trucks in my area, the 6.5% sales tax rate in Texas; a 6.4L would actually cost me more in total cost of ownership than my 6.7L if I would have kept it stock and traded it in at 100k. When I deleted, the cost of ownership decreased even more for my 6.7L since I gained 3 mpg.

Everyone is different though due to the different variables in the things I mentioned above. Some may find the 6.4L less expensive in total cost of ownership which is why I say do the math. However, when it is all said and done, the total cost over ownership is generally no more than $2k either way from each other at 100k miles for most. So it is basically a wash in cost over the coarse of its lifetime. It just depends on when you want to pay for it. Up front, or at the end.

Here is what it came out for me at 75k which I did for another forum. Fuel here is generally about $.30 higher in the summer and $.50 in the winter so I just put it at $.40 higher as an average.

Locally here the only difference will be you can get the 6.4 for 10000-12000 off and I never could find a Cummins for more than $8000 discounted. It made a big difference up front for me, but as much as I'm towing and driving the more I wish I would've went for a Cummins. I think the extra mpg would be nice. I'm driving over 25000 miles a year working.

 

[SouthTexan]

Locally here the only difference will be you can get the 6.4 for 10000-12000 off and I never could find a Cummins for more than $8000 discounted. It made a big difference up front for me, but as much as I'm towing and driving the more I wish I would've went for a Cummins. I think the extra mpg would be nice. I'm driving over 25000 miles a year working.

I got $14k off MSRP which is fairly common according the guys on the Cummins forum if you negotiate close to the end of the year on the current year truck because they want to get them out since the next year models are coming in. Most dealers showed about $5-9k off up front and the rest had to be negotiated for me. It took me walking out the first day and them calling me back a few days later saying they will do the deal based on the numbers I said I would pay. Of course I live in Texas where there is another truck dealer around the corner so the competition is a little more stiff.

 

[Iron Outlaw]

I got $14k off MSRP which is fairly common according the guys on the Cummins forum if you negotiate close to the end of the year on the current year truck because they want to get them out since the next year models are coming in. Most dealers showed about $5-9k off up front and the rest had to be negotiated for me. It took me walking out the first day and them calling me back a few days later saying they will do the deal based on the numbers I said I would pay. Of course I live in Texas where there is another truck dealer around the corner so the competition is a little more stiff.

If I could've got that deal I would have a Cummins now. They 6.4 does good for what I need it to do as a towing, hauling contractors work truck but the Cummins is that much better. At this point I've got a lot of equity in it and I think I just want to pay it off as fast as I can and at that point fuel cost wont be as much of an issue for me

 

[Firebird]

I love my 6.4, but as a 5 time Cummins owner, I would rather tow with a diesel any day of the week! When I had horse trailers and enclosed car haulers, the Cummins was the bomb, but I no longer tow anything, thus the 6.4 now.

 

[sandawilliams]

Doesn't the emissions delete void the engine warranty?

 

[nukegm]

i traded in my 16 6.4 hemi tradesman 2500 for 18 2500 cummins g56.

i love the manual and diesel combo.

the hemi trans drove me nuts driving from the flat land up to my house ( 4000 feet elevation difference )

the auto trans would shift or unlock 40 - 50 times in 12 miles.

i can drive up the canyon only shifting 3 times with the g56.

additionally, the 6.4 was getting 10 - 11 mpg


i had issue with clutch hydraulics, other than that truck is perfect. cheers comrade!

 

[SouthTexan]

Doesn't the emissions delete void the engine warranty?

Yes and no. Part of the engine warranty, but no all.