66RFE Kicked the Bucket

[BLUKTY2]

After 67,000 trouble-free miles, my 3500 finally developed a serious transmission issue. I have spent the last few hours searching this forum and reading a lot about this transmission and its common problems but haven't come across anything quite like what I recently experienced. Hence the new post. Sorry it is a bit long winded, but I didn't want to omit any pertinent facts.

I was traveling home on a major highway (for Alaska anyway) at around 65 mph when I noticed the transmission was "hunting" for gears- between 5th and 6th as far as I could tell. A glance at the trans temp showed around 210* and climbing fast. By the time I could safely pull over and shut down the temp was a little over 230*. I glanced around under the truck and saw no signs of ATF leaking and the dipstick showed the fluid overfilled, due to the temperature of course. No CEL at this point. I was still about 40-50 miles of highway and city driving away from home, had my full-sized camper loaded in the bed, was towing a fairly light trailer (about 1,400#'s) and had my wife with me. In short, I was really in a jamb and didn't know if I should try to continue driving the truck. But trying to find a towing company that could get the truck/camper/trailer to a safe haven didn't seem very feasible and a very expensive option if it was even possible. I am fortunate to have a good local dealer so I called them for advice. I was told that if the transmission worked at all, to go ahead and continue driving and the trans temps "should" be okay.

So off I went at a reduced speed. Shortly after resuming travel the CEL came on but to my amazement the temps went down to around normal (170*) and shifting also seemed normal. This went on until just a few miles from home when the trans dropped out of gear completely; the engine revved but there was no power to the wheels. The EVIC displayed gears 1 and 4, like I had manually selected 4th gear as the highest gear. I pulled over and shut down the engine. Started the engine, put it in drive, got about 1 block and lost all gears again. This repeated until I finally made it home. A couple of times, after restarting the engine and putting the trans in drive, the engine immediately died. By the time I got the trailer unhooked and the camper unloaded, I feel lucky that the truck moved on its own! The trans would not shift into reverse from drive, but would go into reverse if I shut off the engine, restarted it and went from park into reverse.

I had the truck towed to the dealer where they pulled codes but have not had time to examine it. Here are a few key points:

1. There was no warning to this failure- completely out of the blue.
2. Codes are: P0732- Gear 2 Incorrect Ratio; P0733- Gear 3 Incorrect Ratio; P0735- Gear 5 Incorrect Ratio; P0736- Reverse Incorrect Ratio.
3. I had the trans fluid changed at around 31,000 miles by the dealer using Mopar fluid so the current fluid has around 36,000 miles on it. I was hoping to avoid transmission issues by changing the fluid in 30-40,000 mile intervals.
4. Since the truck carries a heavy camper 98% of the time, I frequently use Tow/Haul mode and/or manually select a gear so that the trans doesn't "hunt" for gears. I have never seen the trans temps climb over 172*.
5. I have the lifetime warranty (Max Care??) and the local dealer has at least one very competent technician- I trust him.
6. I know next to nothing about automatic transmissions and this is the first transmission issue I have ever had in my decades of driving.

The main reason for this post is I would appreciate some thoughts on what component might have failed and also advice on possibly replacing one/some of the OEM parts with better quality aftermarket parts. I asked my service advisor about this possibility and he seemed open to the idea and indicated that other customers had done so. At this point I am on the fence about this idea. I don't want to jeopardize my warranty but don't want another transmission failure in another 60-70,000 miles either. I would gladly spend $2-3,000 to decrease the chances of this happening again. I am often hundreds of miles from home with this truck and often don't have cell service. I got VERY lucky with this episode and don't expect to get so lucky next time. From the reading I did today the valve body seems like a weak link so this is one component for possible upgrade. At the very least I want to use either Redline or Amsoil ATF since the fluid will be changed anyway.

I hope to have a more detailed report from the dealer about exactly what failed and how extensive the damage might be within the next few days. I will update as soon as I know anything new.

TIA for thoughts and comments.

 

[Fast69Mopar]

After 67,000 trouble-free miles, my 3500 finally developed a serious transmission issue. I have spent the last few hours searching this forum and reading a lot about this transmission and its common problems but haven't come across anything quite like what I recently experienced. Hence the new post. Sorry it is a bit long winded, but I didn't want to omit any pertinent facts.

I was traveling home on a major highway (for Alaska anyway) at around 65 mph when I noticed the transmission was "hunting" for gears- between 5th and 6th as far as I could tell. A glance at the trans temp showed around 210* and climbing fast. By the time I could safely pull over and shut down the temp was a little over 230*. I glanced around under the truck and saw no signs of ATF leaking and the dipstick showed the fluid overfilled, due to the temperature of course. No CEL at this point. I was still about 40-50 miles of highway and city driving away from home, had my full-sized camper loaded in the bed, was towing a fairly light trailer (about 1,400#'s) and had my wife with me. In short, I was really in a jamb and didn't know if I should try to continue driving the truck. But trying to find a towing company that could get the truck/camper/trailer to a safe haven didn't seem very feasible and a very expensive option if it was even possible. I am fortunate to have a good local dealer so I called them for advice. I was told that if the transmission worked at all, to go ahead and continue driving and the trans temps "should" be okay.

So off I went at a reduced speed. Shortly after resuming travel the CEL came on but to my amazement the temps went down to around normal (170*) and shifting also seemed normal. This went on until just a few miles from home when the trans dropped out of gear completely; the engine revved but there was no power to the wheels. The EVIC displayed gears 1 and 4, like I had manually selected 4th gear as the highest gear. I pulled over and shut down the engine. Started the engine, put it in drive, got about 1 block and lost all gears again. This repeated until I finally made it home. A couple of times, after restarting the engine and putting the trans in drive, the engine immediately died. By the time I got the trailer unhooked and the camper unloaded, I feel lucky that the truck moved on its own! The trans would not shift into reverse from drive, but would go into reverse if I shut off the engine, restarted it and went from park into reverse.

I had the truck towed to the dealer where they pulled codes but have not had time to examine it. Here are a few key points:

1. There was no warning to this failure- completely out of the blue.
2. Codes are: P0732- Gear 2 Incorrect Ratio; P0733- Gear 3 Incorrect Ratio; P0735- Gear 5 Incorrect Ratio; P0736- Reverse Incorrect Ratio.
3. I had the trans fluid changed at around 31,000 miles by the dealer using Mopar fluid so the current fluid has around 36,000 miles on it. I was hoping to avoid transmission issues by changing the fluid in 30-40,000 mile intervals.
4. Since the truck carries a heavy camper 98% of the time, I frequently use Tow/Haul mode and/or manually select a gear so that the trans doesn't "hunt" for gears. I have never seen the trans temps climb over 172*.
5. I have the lifetime warranty (Max Care??) and the local dealer has at least one very competent technician- I trust him.
6. I know next to nothing about automatic transmissions and this is the first transmission issue I have ever had in my decades of driving.

The main reason for this post is I would appreciate some thoughts on what component might have failed and also advice on possibly replacing one/some of the OEM parts with better quality aftermarket parts. I asked my service advisor about this possibility and he seemed open to the idea and indicated that other customers had done so. At this point I am on the fence about this idea. I don't want to jeopardize my warranty but don't want another transmission failure in another 60-70,000 miles either. I would gladly spend $2-3,000 to decrease the chances of this happening again. I am often hundreds of miles from home with this truck and often don't have cell service. I got VERY lucky with this episode and don't expect to get so lucky next time. From the reading I did today the valve body seems like a weak link so this is one component for possible upgrade. At the very least I want to use either Redline or Amsoil ATF since the fluid will be changed anyway.

I hope to have a more detailed report from the dealer about exactly what failed and how extensive the damage might be within the next few days. I will update as soon as I know anything new.

TIA for thoughts and comments.

With this DTC's in the PCM/TCM and the transmission acting the way it is I suspect a failed O/D Clutch, 2C Clutch, 4C Clutch and potentially a failed U/D Clutch.

 

[BLUKTY2]

With this DTC's in the PCM/TCM and the transmission acting the way it is I suspect a failed O/D Clutch, 2C Clutch, 4C Clutch and potentially a failed U/D Clutch.

Thank you for your thoughts on this. Despite my ignorance as to how AT's work, this actually makes sense to me. As I wait for a diagnosis from the dealer, I am trying to learn more about AT's and this information gives me some specifics to focus on.

 

[HEMIMANN]

The failures I have read were due to heat while towing. Yours seems awfully similar.

My preventive maintenance is oil change every 35,000 miles or so, and only with Redline C+ ATF. Just as critical is getting rid of the tiny, failure-prone ATF oil cooler thermostat and replacing with a flow-through block to make it just like OG trans used to be before EPA's big push for miniscule fuel economy gains. I'm @ 67k miles with no issues, and the Red Line oil made it shift much better than with the MOPAR Group III oil.

I didn't want to replace the valve body with a rebuilt Sonnax because it requires a shift relearn of the PCM and I already have a modified PCM.

 

[BLUKTY2]

The failures I have read were due to heat while towing. Yours seems awfully similar.

My preventive maintenance is oil change every 35,000 miles or so, and only with Redline C+ ATF. Just as critical is getting rid of the tiny, failure-prone ATF oil cooler thermostat and replacing with a flow-through block to make it just like OG trans used to be before EPA's big push for miniscule fuel economy gains. I'm @ 67k miles with no issues, and the Red Line oil made it shift much better than with the MOPAR Group III oil.

I didn't want to replace the valve body with a rebuilt Sonnax because it requires a shift relearn of the PCM and I already have a modified PCM.

Thanks for chiming in. I have read a lot of positive things about the Redline C+ ATF on this forum and while I can get Amsoil locally, I just ordered some Redline from Amazon. It's actually a little cheaper than Amsoil and definitely has a proven track record here. I don't see why the dealer wouldn't use this over OEM as long as I supply it and this seems like a good time to make a complete fluid change.

I have also read a lot about the ATF cooler thermostat replacement and while this seems like a no-brainer to me, I am hesitant to replace the factory unit due to warranty concerns. I don't want to do a modification that would give the dealer grounds to deny a warranty repair. But I will enquire about this when the dealer finally contacts me with their diagnosis. Certainly won't hurt to ask and their response just might surprise me.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Thanks for chiming in. I have read a lot of positive things about the Redline C+ ATF on this forum and while I can get Amsoil locally, I just ordered some Redline from Amazon. It's actually a little cheaper than Amsoil and definitely has a proven track record here. I don't see why the dealer wouldn't use this over OEM as long as I supply it and this seems like a good time to make a complete fluid change.

I have also read a lot about the ATF cooler thermostat replacement and while this seems like a no-brainer to me, I am hesitant to replace the factory unit due to warranty concerns. I don't want to do a modification that would give the dealer grounds to deny a warranty repair. But I will enquire about this when the dealer finally contacts me with their diagnosis. Certainly won't hurt to ask and their response just might surprise me.

Ask yourself why Dealers called Hemi tick "normal"? Or why high ATF temperatures were "normal"?

The answer lies in lying sales people.

 

[Grams]

Firstly, IF you are stil under warranty… You will not want to replace Any Parts with those that are not Genuine OEM. Aftermarket parts will void remaining warranty.

Secondly, you may be slipping into faulty-reasoning. The Reason you have a warranty….is to protect you as owner from OEM parts that might be defective. So…you have become victim of defective OEM parts.
The warranty will take care of you properly with a proper repair.

End of issue.

Unless you have another failure at some point After Warranty-Expiration. (which is what I presume is giving you worry.)
That is unavoidable …. should it occur.
At that time, you will be better-positioned to consider aftermarket parts …. or trade that thing off.

The OEM warranty never promises the truck to last as long as you might “imagine” or hope-for. That is on you. (We all sometimes do that. I spent a fortune on my 2012 in preventive mx thinking I was keeping it and improving it to be my “retirement” “Forever” truck. It fell victim to an old man who ran his red-light and totalled my well-maintained forever-truck. The local Ram Dealer sold me the replacement. That’s what happens. Life goes on.)

I hope this face-the-reality is helpful.

Kind regards

 

[mtofell]

My 66rfe has failed twice - once at 38K under zero load (was sitting in traffic towing nothing, hit the gas and it was toast - no prior warning at all). Second time was around 90K and it didn't totally fail but just kept going into limp mode, hunting for gears and slipping badly. I also have a MaxCare Lifetime and am happy to let the dealer keep whacking away at it. Once you go away from dealer parts/service you're warranty isn't going to pay a dime.

Word around here is that the valve bodies on these trucks aren't the greatest and when they fail they roach the whole tranny. I remember the dealer telling me something failed and shot metal all through the tranny. I'm with you and don't know a lot about these things but I think it was the valve body that caused at least one of the failures.

 

[BLUKTY2]

Firstly, IF you are stil under warranty… You will not want to replace Any Parts with those that are not Genuine OEM. Aftermarket parts will void remaining warranty.

Secondly, you may be slipping into faulty-reasoning. The Reason you have a warranty….is to protect you as owner from OEM parts that might be defective. So…you have become victim of defective OEM parts.
The warranty will take care of you properly with a proper repair.

End of issue.

Unless you have another failure at some point After Warranty-Expiration. (which is what I presume is giving you worry.)
That is unavoidable …. should it occur.
At that time, you will be better-positioned to consider aftermarket parts …. or trade that thing off.

The OEM warranty never promises the truck to last as long as you might “imagine” or hope-for. That is on you. (We all sometimes do that. I spent a fortune on my 2012 in preventive mx thinking I was keeping it and improving it to be my “retirement” “Forever” truck. It fell victim to an old man who ran his red-light and totalled my well-maintained forever-truck. The local Ram Dealer sold me the replacement. That’s what happens. Life goes on.)

I hope this face-the-reality is helpful.

Kind regards

Your points here are why I am still on the fence with the OEM vs. aftermarket parts. My lifetime warranty doesn't expire so if there is another failure in the future, it's on Stellantis. But I really want to avoid another failure. From what I know, using superior fluids is one thing, but using aftermarket parts is another when navigating warranty repairs. This is a road that I have not been down before, so I am trying to get educated and move carefully so that I can ultimately make an informed decision. This is why I posted this thread and I appreciate your input.

Anything mechanical or electrical will break at some point; just the way it is and I expect this from time to time. But in my view, there is a difference between "defective" parts and parts that are poorly engineered/built and therefore prone to premature failure. JMHO.

 

[BLUKTY2]

My 66rfe has failed twice - once at 38K under zero load (was sitting in traffic towing nothing, hit the gas and it was toast - no prior warning at all). Second time was around 90K and it didn't totally fail but just kept going into limp mode, hunting for gears and slipping badly. I also have a MaxCare Lifetime and am happy to let the dealer keep whacking away at it. Once you go away from dealer parts/service you're warranty isn't going to pay a dime.

Word around here is that the valve bodies on these trucks aren't the greatest and when they fail they roach the whole tranny. I remember the dealer telling me something failed and shot metal all through the tranny. I'm with you and don't know a lot about these things but I think it was the valve body that caused at least one of the failures.

I read about your unfortunate experiences while searching this forum prior to posting. Maybe you got a "Monday Morning" tranny (which happens, I guess) but this sort of early and repeat failure should be extremely rare, and perhaps they are. Your advice to stick to oem parts with the MaxCare warranty is duly noted.

I sure hope that your troubles are over for many miles!

 

[HEMIMANN]

No, not everything breaks at a certain point.

Read up on metallurgical endurance limits before making such an incorrect statement.

 

[BLUKTY2]

Just heard from the dealer. They removed the pan and found metal shavings, so they are going to replace the entire transmission with a new (reman) one. Should have one on hand in about two weeks.

I am quite satisfied with this decision and I look forward to having the job completed.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Wow. Tell them to put a good valve body on it! lol

 

[06 Dodge]

Wow. Tell them to put a good valve body on it! lol

Or once you get it back have a trans shop install upgraded parts in the valebody

 

[Grams]

I doubt I have to mention this…. but a warranty..even a lifetime waranty…only warrants OEM parts.

Replace those wtih non-oem…and you are walking awasy from your warranty….. AND paying extra for the privilege!

 

[BLUKTY2]

Or once you get it back have a trans shop install upgraded parts in the valebody

Trust me, I have thought of this myself! LOL I don't know what failed since the dealer did not tear it down, so I don't know if the valve body was the culprit. Apparently, the metal shavings were all they needed to see. See my additional comments below.

I doubt I have to mention this…. but a warranty..even a lifetime waranty…only warrants OEM parts.

Replace those wtih non-oem…and you are walking awasy from your warranty….. AND paying extra for the privilege!

The temptation of doing what @06 Dodge suggested is strong, I have to admit. But at this point I plan on sticking with the OEM unit. I am not sure yet what the total cost of parts and labor would be without the warranty but I think it's safe to say that it's not going to be cheap. I paid somewhere around $3,700 for the MaxCare warranty and I am sure that this just paid for itself, probably twice over or close to it. I don't think that jeopardizing the warranty is worth the risk.

But I do plan on switching out the OEM fluid to Redline after 15,000 miles or so, maybe even sooner. I'll worry about that later, just looking forward to getting my truck back.

Thanks all for your thoughts and comments- much appreciated!

 

[White six four]

Are they replacing the lines and cooler also? If not the new transmission might not last long if there's shavings throughout everything.

 

[Fast69Mopar]

Are they replacing the lines and cooler also? If not the new transmission might not last long if there's shavings throughout everything.

@White six four made a very good point. As a dealer tech that overhauls and repairs these transmissions, there are certain steps that are designed to be followed in service manual after a transmission failure. When you have a failure that allows metal debris to circulate throughout the transmission you must replace the cooler. No matter how many times I/we flush the cooler we cannot remove all of the debris. Next in line is there thermostat. Since is has internal moving parts there is a high probability that the metal debris will restrict the thermostats movement and cause high transmission fluid temperatures which are detrimental to the longevity of the RFE. An last but not least the cooler lines have to be flushed with Mopar Transmission Cooler Flush part number 4796268AB or a quality, denatured alcohol.

I would follow up with your service advisor and ask them to make sure these steps are followed so that you do not have a repeat repair. Hope this helps. Glad they are taking care of the issue for you.

 

[BLUKTY2]

Are they replacing the lines and cooler also? If not the new transmission might not last long if there's shavings throughout everything.

@White six four made a very good point. As a dealer tech that overhauls and repairs these transmissions, there are certain steps that are designed to be followed in service manual after a transmission failure. When you have a failure that allows metal debris to circulate throughout the transmission you must replace the cooler. No matter how many times I/we flush the cooler we cannot remove all of the debris. Next in line is there thermostat. Since is has internal moving parts there is a high probability that the metal debris will restrict the thermostats movement and cause high transmission fluid temperatures which are detrimental to the longevity of the RFE. An last but not least the cooler lines have to be flushed with Mopar Transmission Cooler Flush part number 4796268AB or a quality, denatured alcohol.

I would follow up with your service advisor and ask them to make sure these steps are followed so that you do not have a repeat repair. Hope this helps. Glad they are taking care of the issue for you.

Thank you both for bringing this up. I asked my advisor about this yesterday when he gave me the news of the new unit. He told me that these parts would not be replaced but rather would be flushed. I wasn't comfortable with his answer but with this being my first tranny failure, I am ignorant on what the standard service procedures are. There is a chance that the advisor is also ignorant and just gave me a wrong answer.

But this definitely needs to be addressed, so I will bring it up with my advisor again later today. I guess if I don't get a different answer from him, I will consider purchasing at least the cooler and thermostat myself. Maybe even the lines too.

Thanks again for bringing this to my attention! I will report back when I have an answer.

 

[BLUKTY2]

So I decided to visit the dealer in person to find out positively if anything, other than the transmission itself, was going to be replaced. The advisor had a conversation with the service technician who is doing the work on my truck and then informed me that the cooler, lines and thermostat were all going to be replaced, not just flushed. As I stated earlier, I am very satisfied with the dealers handling of this repair so far.