Cummins $1.6 billion dollar fine!!!

[HEMIMANN]

good news bad news, the good news is they fixed the ecodiesels problems, the bad news is it isnt available anymore. Woke cummins would rather have you in a BEV, and since they rule over us, we have no choice. My guess, they will be more aero.

Isn't that about a beetch? They fuch it up from the get go, work on it and finally get it right, then cancel it.

I'm wondering if GM kills their 3.0 I6 Duramax for the same thing? My eldest is looking at that truck.

 

[tjfdesmo]

Vehicles with high GVWR/GCWR require very large cooling systems, and charge air coolers. This requires frontal area. You can't make an aero-anteater out of that. Look at a heavy haul Kenworth, and it has a much wider nose than a more aero OTR truck. Diamond-Reo tried it with the Deutz air-cooled anteaters, and that didn't work out so well. Another example is the Freightliner M2. If you get the 106" BBC with the low hood the L9 Cummins is restricted to 360 HP, but if you get the 112" BBC with the tall hood, which allows a larger cooling package, the L9 is turned up to 450 HP, or you can also get the Detroit DD13 with 525 HP.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Vehicles with high GVWR/GCWR require very large cooling systems, and charge air coolers. This requires frontal area. You can't make an aero-anteater out of that. Look at a heavy haul Kenworth, and it has a much wider nose than a more aero OTR truck. Diamond-Reo tried it with the Deutz air-cooled anteaters, and that didn't work out so well. Another example is the Freightliner M2. If you get the 106" BBC with the low hood the L9 Cummins is restricted to 360 HP, but if you get the 112" BBC with the tall hood, which allows a larger cooling package, the L9 is turned up to 450 HP, or you can also get the Detroit DD13 with 525 HP.

You should see the radiators on stationary engines. Not only do they not get any wind from travel, they run higher loads and more often.

 

[Burla]

Isn't that about a beetch? They fuch it up from the get go, work on it and finally get it right, then cancel it.

I'm wondering if GM kills their 3.0 I6 Duramax for the same thing? My eldest is looking at that truck.

they had a lot of promise, very sad ending to one of the true answers to this problem.

 

[tjfdesmo]

You should see the radiators on stationary engines. Not only do they not get any wind from travel, they run higher loads and more often.

I have serviced some stationary gensets. Nothing as large as the V-16 powered stuff you described, though.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I have serviced some stationary gensets. Nothing as large as the V-16 powered stuff you described, though.

I think the cooling system was 110 gallon capacity.

 

[06 Dodge]

- it may only be a startup / warmup mode.

I was reading that the woke CA smog soy boys cr@pped there panties & were surprised to find out that a diesel engine puts out different amounts of Nox when cold compared to a diesel engine that is warmed up ( my guess this was found to even more so when using CA green reformulated diesel fuel or what ever it is they sell in that com mie state) my guess this is what sent the CA smog soy boys on the hunt to find a way to harm the midsize diesel engines... The last that I read Cummins report to share holders they stated they did nothing wrong, I also recall reading some where Cummins had been working with the government for 4 years trying to find out what was said to be wrong, sounds like the soy boys went looking for a problem that was not their, they needed to find a way to keep there worthless jobs, so in the long run it was cheaper to settle with them then to spent who knows how many years fighting it out in court...

 

[HEMIMANN]

The 1999 case made lawyers ever richer.

They argued over EPA Regulatory "intent" from the words in the regulations.

Lawyers will argue that gravity doesn't exist, if you pay them enough, so I don't know what the truth was. I do know the company stated they did nothing wrong nor intended to, they understood the regulations were to reduce NOx exhaust in urban areas, not on rural highways. Hence the differing fuel injection algorithms. But neither do i recall them asking EPA for clarity. This also differs from the VW scandal in that their fuel injection advance occurred all the time EXCEPT during emissions testing.

Regardless, EPA fined Cummins big time, made them recall all engines (sound familiar?), AND pulled up Tier 4i emissions regulation deadline from 2007 to 2002.

I remember all of this clearly, because I was responsible for EPA emissions regulations on the corporate gensets, for Nonroad applications.

What a fun time the 2000's were. And for successfully seeing them throught it, they fired us to save executive bonuses. What a company.

 

[Burla]

I was reading that the woke CA smog soy boys cr@pped there panties & were surprised to find out that a diesel engine puts out different amounts of Nox when cold compared to a diesel engine that is warmed up ( my guess this was found to even more so when using CA green reformulated diesel fuel or what ever it is they sell in that com mie state) my guess this is what sent the CA smog soy boys on the hunt to find a way to harm the midsize diesel engines... The last that I read Cummins report to share holders they stated they did nothing wrong, I also recall reading some where Cummins had been working with the government for 4 years trying to find out what was said to be wrong, sounds like the soy boys went looking for a problem that was not their, they needed to find a way to keep there worthless jobs, so in the long run it was cheaper to settle with them then to spent who knows how many years fighting it out in court...

Maybe they wanted to pay the fine. They seam to not like their consumers maybe they feel the same way about their spoiled investors?

 

[18CrewDually]

Maybe they wanted to pay the fine. They seam to not like their consumers maybe they feel the same way about their spoiled investors?

Or maybe it's like the IRS, just settle now & get them off our backs before they dig deeper and find more things to fine us for. Cheaper in the long run.

 

[04fxdwgi]

Yup. The money they make producing the V16 for 2-2.5 meg engines for the data centers back up gensets is staggering.

Accurate.

Yours truly led the design team and production of Cummins V16 generators. Our goal was set to sell maybe 60 generators a year globally at maturity. The 2nd year of production we sold 400 and scrambled to get parts. We spent several years doing nothing but making and acquiring parts to fill demand. These generators also went with paralleling switchgear and controllers made in-house.

That is so cool. We may have met at the factory during Factory Witness testing...

 

[04fxdwgi]

This is all very cool. How often do you get to meet the project lead (hemimann) for a major product you've used that long in your life, posting conveniently in the same thread as you. Here's your chance, ask him some strongly worded questions, make him squirm a little eh?

(jk, I'm sure the v16 is a fine product!)

Yeah, that is pretty cool. I made his group squirm at times already. Being a Commissioning Agent, I pushed those machine right to the edge (maybe a toe or 2 over) during level 4 functional testing. That being said, worked very closely w/ the Cummins factory and R&D folks to to find solutions to problems we discovered when machines were being severely stressed.

Was a great job. Got paid to break s**t and I didn't have to fix it.

 

[HEMIMANN]

If I were still back in the day, I'd know a bit more about this, but likely wouldn't be here because I'd be too busy working.

What I don't know about this current case is what the particulars are of the B engines not meeting EPA exhaust emission regulations. For EPA Tier 4 final regulation, diesel industry consensus was exhaust aftertreatment was needed to meet it. Famously, Navistar tried to meet it without, and failed miserably. But that's another story.

The deal with exhaust aftertreatment was you could advance fuel injection timing back to previous normal timing because the SCR reactor would reduce the NOx in the exhaust back to N2 & O2. For the extra price and cost of the SCR, you got to retain the power and mileage of the engine instead of r*e*t*a*r*d*i*n*g the injection timing to reduce NOx by reducing the peak flame temperature (and the efficiency!).

I'm guessing they sized the SCR's for less than "normal" timing, maybe? Such that a further advance back to "normal" provided full power and efficiency again, but sent too much NOx to the SCR to fully process, leaking NOx out the pipe?

 

[18CrewDually]

Just installed my $12 Anti-update /Anti-theft dummy plug. Snapped in perfectly.
Ready for my Emmissions update!

iKKEGOL 30cm/12" OBD2 OBD II 16 Pin J1962F Female to Open Braid Dash Port Replacement Cable Pigtail Fixed Wire Harness with Underdash Mount Bracket https://a.co/d/haXEZVC

 

[04fxdwgi]

Just installed my $12 Anti-update /Anti-theft dummy plug. Snapped in perfectly.
Ready for my Emmissions update!

iKKEGOL 30cm/12" OBD2 OBD II 16 Pin J1962F Female to Open Braid Dash Port Replacement Cable Pigtail Fixed Wire Harness with Underdash Mount Bracket https://a.co/d/haXEZVC
View attachment 534586

Dunno, but if I did that, I thing I would power up the + and - 12 VDC pins on the fake. That would make any potential thief think the OBD2 port is real and they have a problem with their theft device and they would be on their way sooner. LOL

 

[18CrewDually]

Dunno, but if I did that, I thing I would power up the + and - 12 VDC pins on the fake. That would make any potential thief think the OBD2 port is real and they have a problem with their theft device and they would be on their way sooner. LOL

What I actually am planning on doing is seeing if powering the canbus pin or one of the others would fry the device plugged in.
Baby steps.

 

[04fxdwgi]

What I actually am planning on doing is seeing if powering the canbus pin or one of the others would fry the device plugged in.
Baby steps.

HAHAHA. What are you going to test it on?
I like it, but be careful and don't let anyone near the OBD2 unless notified. LOL

 

[Timsdually]

HAHAHA. What are you going to test it on?
I like it, but be careful and don't let anyone near the OBD2 unless notified. LOL

Yup. if a mechanic plugs in and fries his equipment, you would be liable.

 

[18CrewDually]

Yup. if a mechanic plugs in and fries his equipment, you would be liable.

I AM MY MECHANIC!!

 

[18CrewDually]

HAHAHA. What are you going to test it on?
I like it, but be careful and don't let anyone near the OBD2 unless notified. LOL

Anyone plugging in would be against my will. I do not go to dealers and do all my own work for myself and others. The only way someone would be plugging in would be forced entry and against my will. You get what you deserve at that point.