Dealer damaged my truck

[rwhjr]

I believe they owe you a matching paint job so they need to do better. Either paint more/all of the truck to get it blended better and then do something to address the bolts that will be rusting one a year or so.

new truck probably won’t happen but I agree you’re truck should be made to look closer to what it looked like before they destroyed it.

 

[chri5k]

I keep seeing this "write a check for diminished value" in this thread. It is very difficult if not impossible to recover damages (diminished value) until you have actually suffered the monetary loss. No, the fact you "know it" or "it bothers me that it was in an accident" is not suffering the monetary loss. You have to actually sell the vehicle and be able to prove that you received less than fair market value for it because of the accident. Then you have actually suffered the monetary loss and can seek to recover that amount. The law doesn't usually deal with feelings or it might happen. It deals with provable facts.

For arguments sake lets say the dealer cuts the OP a check. The OP sells the car in 5 years and receives fair market value. What then? Would he return the check to the dealer with interest? How much interest? Since you can't predict the future, you can't easily recover future damages now.

 

[rwhjr]

It sounds like the truck was repaired to industry standard, just not to the customers satisfaction level. That’s two different standards. And diminished value is different state to state. I personally am a dealership sales manager, have been for years. I got hit by someone and took them to court, knowing I had an uphill battle. I took every piece of paper possible to show to the dollar how much the accident impacted my car’s value. I lost. It happens. Giving the customer a new or “equivalent” truck over some paint flakes that don’t bend the same direction is ludicrous and beyond the scope of what this dealer should do to make the customer whole again. I’ll say it again, what this guy wants is unreasonable.

I’ve had bodywork done and the metallic flakes came back matching (at least to the naked eye). So if he truly has a noticeable difference in panel color then the dealer absolutely didn’t repair it up to standards.

Sounds like they may have painted just the damage spots and no blending etc....or maybe they didn’t match the paint good enough? Who knows but if he handed his truck over and everything matched then the dealer should have handed it back that way.

I understand it won’t be show truck worthy but you shouldn’t be able to look at it and ask “whys the one panel off with its color?”

The diminished value thing probably won’t happen but the dealers body shop owes him a better paint job if it’s mismatched.

 

[IRSmart]

********, dealer did the damage. Repaint the entire truck, guarantee the repair for as long he owns the truck and write a check for the value lost on on a car fax with an accident. Or replace the truck with a new equivalent truck. Not likely the dealer will take a hit in either scenario, but if he does, that is a cost of doing buisiness.

Repainting the entire truck is not a reasonable request. It just isn’t. If the repair was done correctly and the paint matches, there’s no justification to repaint everything else. In fact, you’d end up with a paint job sub-standard to what it has on it to begin with. You’d be making it worse by repainting it. “The cost of doing business” is making the situation right, but within the scope of reality.

 

[IRSmart]

I keep seeing this "write a check for diminished value" in this thread. It is very difficult if not impossible to recover damages (diminished value) until you have actually suffered the monetary loss. No, the fact you "know it" or "it bothers me that it was in an accident" is not suffering the monetary loss. You have to actually sell the vehicle and be able to prove that you received less than fair market value for it because of the accident. Then you have actually suffered the monetary loss and can seek to recover that amount. The law doesn't usually deal with feelings or it might happen. It deals with provable facts.

For arguments sake lets say the dealer cuts the OP a check. The OP sells the car in 5 years and receives fair market value. What then? Would he return the check to the dealer with interest? How much interest? Since you can't predict the future, you can't easily recover future damages now.

Exactly. And the diminished value will also be a percentage of the trucks value. If he sells it today vs ten years from now the loss will be different. What if he sells it 25 years from now? And the truck is worth $1,500? What would it be worth if it hadn’t had this particular accident? $2,000? You have to SUFFER the monetary loss, like has been said.

 

[huntergreen]

I keep seeing this "write a check for diminished value" in this thread. It is very difficult if not impossible to recover damages (diminished value) until you have actually suffered the monetary loss. No, the fact you "know it" or "it bothers me that it was in an accident" is not suffering the monetary loss. You have to actually sell the vehicle and be able to prove that you received less than fair market value for it because of the accident. Then you have actually suffered the monetary loss and can seek to recover that amount. The law doesn't usually deal with feelings or it might happen. It deals with provable facts.

For arguments sake lets say the dealer cuts the OP a check. The OP sells the car in 5 years and receives fair market value. What then? Would he return the check to the dealer with interest? How much interest? Since you can't predict the future, you can't easily recover future damages now.

Try trading in a vehicle with a accident on the car fax, than took about getting fair market value.

 

[chri5k]

Try trading in a vehicle with a accident on the car fax, than took about getting fair market value.

No sure of the point. Trade-in is essentially a sale of the vehicle to the dealer. While no money is physically changing hands, one is receiving less than the fair market value or trade-in value because of the damage and would be able to seek monetary damages same as if they actually received cash in hand.

 

[chrisbh17]

Try trading in a vehicle with a accident on the car fax, than took about getting fair market value.

The accident I previously spoke about - the body shop was an FCA-approved shop, part of which is ensuring there is zero structural issues. So, on the paperwork they allotted time for taking frame measurements, etc.

CarFax? Shows it as an accident with structural damage. So, eff them.

If I ever go to trade-in or sell it, I have the line item paperwork from the body shop that did the work. Doesnt mention any structural issues corrected, only that they took the time to make sure the frame was OK.

I would fight CarFax to get it updated, but if you Google around there are lots of cases where it seems like they just randomly put something in for the description of an accident. If anyone doesnt trust the paperwork I have, thats on them. They are more than welcome to verify it with the body shop if they want. I even have a family member that had actual structural damage in an accident, and on CarFax it just says "moderate damage". Clearly whoever entered mine had a bad day lol

 

[chri5k]

On the Carfax topic, I recently went to have a small dent on my cab corner fixed. All 3 estimates said in bold letters that they don't provide information to Carfax or allow Carfax access to their customer database. One of the shops was a national chain so it isn't just mom and pop shops using not reporting to Carfax as a selling point. I would say the damage information in Carfax is suspect at best. About all it is good for is the legally required DMV record stuff like ownership changes, salvage title, etc.

 

[huntergreen]

The accident I previously spoke about - the body shop was an FCA-approved shop, part of which is ensuring there is zero structural issues. So, on the paperwork they allotted time for taking frame measurements, etc.

CarFax? Shows it as an accident with structural damage. So, eff them.

If I ever go to trade-in or sell it, I have the line item paperwork from the body shop that did the work. Doesnt mention any structural issues corrected, only that they took the time to make sure the frame was OK.

I would fight CarFax to get it updated, but if you Google around there are lots of cases where it seems like they just randomly put something in for the description of an accident. If anyone doesnt trust the paperwork I have, thats on them. They are more than welcome to verify it with the body shop if they want. I even have a family member that had actual structural damage in an accident, and on CarFax it just says "moderate damage". Clearly whoever entered mine had a bad day lol

there is a plethora of used trucks, the one that has a n MVA on the car fax will be worth thousands less than an identical truck with a clean fax regardless of the paperwork on the repair. That's the way the real world works. This why car fax remains in business.

 

[chrisbh17]

there is a plethora of used trucks, the one that has a n MVA on the car fax will be worth thousands less than an identical truck with a clean fax regardless of the paperwork on the repair.

I guess Ill find that out (hopefully) a very long time from now.

 

[Timsdually]

Hinge pillar had some paint cracks but the body guy said it was not bent and
There is a wind whistle

If the paint cracked the pillar is bent, stretched, or twisted.
If they didn't change the pillar the door will never sit properly to seal correctly. It will always have wind noise.
I wouldn't accept that even less than a paint problem. I hate wind noise in a $70-80,000 truck.

 

[IRSmart]

Careful IRSmartass is gonna tell you dealers owe you the least even when they were responsible for trashing your expensive truck. He thinks as long as they slapped some sort of roughly matching paint on the thing then they’ve done their part lol.

Easy scooter, I haven’t been my usual smartass self in here, but I’m happy to be if called upon. I never said sub-par repairs were acceptable and that the dealer isn’t responsible for making the situation whole. What I HAVE stated is that the OP has yet to actually show that beyond the flake pattern matching the factory paint (which is beyond difficult to accomplish by even the most experienced painter), the dealership has failed to repair the truck back to acceptable industry standards, and what he’s asking them to do to make it right is unreasonable.

I haven’t been a **** yet, I’ve tried to stay as analytical as possible. If I was being my usual self, I’d say that I think OP is being a whiny, self-entitled customer and that nothing short of the dealership giving him the world will ever make him happy again. Again, that’s if I’m being my usual self Mistakes happen. Get over it. There are only so many ways that this situation can be fixed. Giving him a brand new truck is not one of them.

 

[rwhjr]

Easy scooter, I haven’t been my usual smartass self in here, but I’m happy to be if called upon. I never said sub-par repairs were acceptable and that the dealer isn’t responsible for making the situation whole. What I HAVE stated is that the OP has yet to actually show that beyond the flake pattern matching the factory paint (which is beyond difficult to accomplish by even the most experienced painter), the dealership has failed to repair the truck back to acceptable industry standards, and what he’s asking them to do to make it right is unreasonable.

I haven’t been a **** yet, I’ve tried to stay as analytical as possible. If I was being my usual self, I’d say that I think OP is being a whiny, self-entitled customer and that nothing short of the dealership giving him the world will ever make him happy again. Again, that’s if I’m being my usual self Mistakes happen. Get over it. There are only so many ways that this situation can be fixed. Giving him a brand new truck is not one of them.

The new truck idea is crazy.

But a thorough repair isn’t, and should be done.

Maybe some pics would shed light on how much effort this dealer put forth even though a paint mismatch might be hard to pickup when we’re not in person.

 

[JohnnyMac]

On the Carfax topic, I recently went to have a small dent on my cab corner fixed. All 3 estimates said in bold letters that they don't provide information to Carfax or allow Carfax access to their customer database. One of the shops was a national chain so it isn't just mom and pop shops using not reporting to Carfax as a selling point. I would say the damage information in Carfax is suspect at best. About all it is good for is the legally required DMV record stuff like ownership changes, salvage title, etc.

I put my RX8 into a ditch and did $9500 damage to it. It was in the shop for 30 days getting repaired. When I went to sell it, I pulled the carfax and there was nothing about it noted on it.

 

[IRSmart]

The new truck idea is crazy.

But a thorough repair isn’t, and should be done.

Maybe some pics would shed light on how much effort this dealer put forth even though a paint mismatch might be hard to pickup when we’re not in person.

I agree. A lot of this is speculation based on what little info we’ve gotten so far.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I keep seeing this "write a check for diminished value" in this thread. It is very difficult if not impossible to recover damages (diminished value) until you have actually suffered the monetary loss.

That is incorrect, or at best partially correct depending on your state. 3rd party claims can almost always prevail in a DV claim and several insurance companies found out the hard way the courts meant it. At least 15 different states have current case law supporting this.

For my particular state:

"It is a firmly established principle that damages are awarded to fairly and adequately compensate an injured party for his loss, and the proper measure of damages must be flexible enough to fit all circumstances....While an aggrieved party must be compensated, he should not be placed in any better position... this court reaffirmed the long standing rule that the measure of damages for personal property that "has been damaged ... but is ... repairable ... is the difference in the fair market value of the property immediately before and immediately after the traumatic event, to which may be added any amount reasonably expended as a proximate result of the wrongful act.

"In summary, the fundamental measure of damages in a situation where an item of personal property is damaged, but not destroyed, is the reduction in fair market value caused by the negligence of the tort feasor. This reduction in fair market value may be proved in any of three ways, depending on the circumstances. First, it may be proved by evidence of the fair market value before and the fair market value after the causative event. Secondly, it may be proved by evidence of the cost of repair where repair will restore the personal property to its fair market value before the causative event. Third, the reduction in fair market value may be proved by a combination of evidence of the cost of repair and evidence of the fair market value before the causative event and the fair market value after repair, where repair will not restore the item of personal property to its fair market value before the causative event."



Claims against your own insurance under your own policy are often not DV eligible unless specific state statute allows for it. Your insurance is not required to "make you whole", it is only required to abide by the contract you've agreed to. If your contract doesn't include DV and your state doesn't require it, then you are correct.

 

[PapaCap]

Imagine the response to a vehicle owner at the service desk of any dealership or Indy shop asking about the credentials and experience of the mechanic who will work on his vehicle. We’re supposed to simply trust that we’ll get a competent person on the job but we’re not supposed to ask anything about it. Most places have an attitude of “You’ll get whomever WE want to work on your vehicle.” Oh, and you cannot talk to their choice of mechanic either. Shut up, give us the key, and beat it. Such BS.

 

[master logger]

It doesn’t appear he’s complaining about a misalignment. He’s complaining that the metallic flake doesn’t line up (which it NEVER will to an unapologetic eye, it’s impossible), and wrench marks on the bolts behind the fender, again, which are the result of body panels being painted off the car, then reinstalled after the paint is dry. My bet is that the truck was repaired within industry standards, OP went to the service manager and/or owner saying he wanted it back perfect, and made his list of unreasonable demands he mentioned in post 1, dealership tried professionally telling him that what he wanted was not within their scope of power but that they would be happy to redo the body work, he said that’s not good enough and pressed the issue, they told him to get bent, now he’s on the Internet complaining about it and the thread is not going his way lol a very abridged version of my guess on how it went down. Dealerships don’t stay in business by being overtly rude to people. TYPICALLY (albeit not always), people who are being treated rudely are giving it back in kind.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion especially when all the facts are not put forth , but a combination of opinions and smart ass comments and creating a new story line as to how everything happened is just fu .

Let me see if I can clarify the facts .
On a Monday i took the truck in for warranty repair , dealership damaged the truck , I had a trip planned in our rv on thursday , the body guy said he would have it fixed in 3 days and he did , return from trip , I went to the dealership and talked to the GM asking how was this going to be resolved , he said you need to talk to the owner , ok can I see him or have his number and he said " he's like the *** no one can talk to him " I will give him your number and he will call you , a few days latter he called me and after hello and name asked me all kinds of questions , where I buy all my trucks , how do I buy them , why I never bought from him , do I know these VIP in my industry because he does , and then he started making comments about my morals all during this I asked him numerous times to just discuss the issue of my truck which he would not , after over a hour of him talking I
said " I see 3 solutions , 1 replace the truck , 2 pay me the loss value , 3 hear from my lawyer .
there was no discussion , no talking about what or how to do it , no saying yes or no it anything , his last statement was let me see what I can do and I will call you back , he called me back 4 hours latter and said "I told you I would call you back , let me see what I can do" Click .
2 weeks later , nothing from him so I was close to one of his biggest dealerships and told the receptionist who I was , Oh he's not here , the GM was busy and couldn't talk to me , so I leave , and the owner calls me in 5 mins , says he will REPLACE my truck and what options would I accept in place of what I had ( gear ratio,color,air susp,bed length) my truck has what I want and do not want to change anything , another week has gone by with nothing from him .
I would be be open to several possible solutions , me keep the truck as is with a guarantee to repair or repaint if needed and pay me for diminished value
or me order a new truck to replace mine with the least out of pocket expense and I see that as , the highest value for my truck , the new truck at true dealer cost + the holdback with no other fees .

im sure someone will disagree with what I said and offer their own opinion on how everything happened , or what the out come will be

 

[JoeCo]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion especially when all the facts are not put forth , but a combination of opinions and smart ass comments and creating a new story line as to how everything happened is just fu .

Let me see if I can clarify the facts .
On a Monday i took the truck in for warranty repair , dealership damaged the truck , I had a trip planned in our rv on thursday , the body guy said he would have it fixed in 3 days and he did , return from trip , I went to the dealership and talked to the GM asking how was this going to be resolved , he said you need to talk to the owner , ok can I see him or have his number and he said " he's like the *** no one can talk to him " I will give him your number and he will call you , a few days latter he called me and after hello and name asked me all kinds of questions , where I buy all my trucks , how do I buy them , why I never bought from him , do I know these VIP in my industry because he does , and then he started making comments about my morals all during this I asked him numerous times to just discuss the issue of my truck which he would not , after over a hour of him talking I
said " I see 3 solutions , 1 replace the truck , 2 pay me the loss value , 3 hear from my lawyer .
there was no discussion , no talking about what or how to do it , no saying yes or no it anything , his last statement was let me see what I can do and I will call you back , he called me back 4 hours latter and said "I told you I would call you back , let me see what I can do" Click .
2 weeks later , nothing from him so I was close to one of his biggest dealerships and told the receptionist who I was , Oh he's not here , the GM was busy and couldn't talk to me , so I leave , and the owner calls me in 5 mins , says he will REPLACE my truck and what options would I accept in place of what I had ( gear ratio,color,air susp,bed length) my truck has what I want and do not want to change anything , another week has gone by with nothing from him .
I would be be open to several possible solutions , me keep the truck as is with a guarantee to repair or repaint if needed and pay me for diminished value
or me order a new truck to replace mine with the least out of pocket expense and I see that as , the highest value for my truck , the new truck at true dealer cost + the holdback with no other fees .

im sure someone will disagree with what I said and offer their own opinion on how everything happened , or what the out come will be

View attachment 211657

I can definitely believe that, just because I've dealt with dealers like that. They go on and on for like 5 minutes and you practically have to shout over them to get them to shut up for a minute. I'm sure that tactic (talking circles around someone who can't keep up or have a good rebuttal) works on most people they use it on but I found it extremely annoying and I just ended up refuting what they were blabbing about, instead of going with what they said. My experience was dealing more on pricing of trucks I was looking at rather than a repair, but your description reminded me a lot of some of the "conversations" I've had in the past.