Fifth Wheels By Keystone For 1500

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2003F350

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Second one is wrong as well.

As is last one. I didn't even both to look at others.... Last one is for 1500 and 2500.... Since you didn't bother to read what you are posting. You took the values for their 2500 model....

And no not better.
7,678 lb
2,222 lb
1,200 lb.

Your numbers are off... If you want to do 20% go for it. If you want load anything to it's max go for it. But that doesn't mean it's correct, or that is right.
Those Half-Ton's 5th have Pin weight of 15%. Normal people don't put a ton of stuff in their trailers and drive around.

Where is he wrong? He added the advertised empty weight and the cargo carrying capacity to get the vehicle's GVWR, which is 10k - and that's EXACTLY what GVWR is, curb (or dry) weight + cargo capacity. 1200lbs is the advertised DRY pin weight, not the pin weight at max GVWR. So when it's empty, sure, their layout claims it'll be 15% - but there's a STRONG chance that when you load it up you'll be closer to 20%. Unless you load EVERYTHING directly over the axles you're GOING to increase pin weight.

Those half ton 5ers have an ADVERTISED pin weight of 15%. It is not static. Most of the storage for clothing/bedding/bathroom is ahead of the axles in MOST RVs, which adds to the pin weight. Most of the water/waste storage is ahead of the axles, which adds to the pin weight. It is VERY easy to get one of those 'half ton' 5ers to 20% or greater pin weight - and for a LOT of half ton trucks that exceeds their GVW, and likely their RAGWR.

And everyone I know who camps on a semi-regular basis DOES put a ton of stuff in their trailer (heck my parents' camper is likely overloaded with all the crap my mother packs - it's no wonder dad still pulls it with an F450). Full kitchen utensils/cookware, campsite tools, leveling/hookup supplies, yard games, clothing, bedding, etc. etc. etc. all adds up, and for a family of 3-4 that's a LOT of stuff. Add in a full tank of water if you aren't going to be on a water/electric site and that's quite a bit of weight too.

Look, we get it, your mind is made up. We are telling you the numbers as they approximately are, and that the ADVERTISED weights of RVs are a guideline at best, and flat-out wrong at worst. If you want to run based off the advertised numbers, go right ahead - nothing we can say or do will stop you. We are just pointing out that your comments are based on opinions, not facts.

I used to own a small RV repair/hauling/renting business, so I've seen the numbers RV manufacturers play with. There was a reason all our 'work trucks' were duallies and not 1500s. It 100% had to do with payload and axle ratings.
 
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nlambert182

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Which second one is wrong? You're trying to use dry weights when I very CLEARLY said multiple times that the numbers I used were GVWR and NOT dry weights. They are irrelevant.

If you take a BRAND NEW fifth wheel out of the dealership parking lot and directly to a CAT scale, it will weigh more than the advertised dry weight. 100% of the time.


My numbers are not off. 15% pin weight is not the calculation that anyone towing fifth wheels uses. The industry standard is 18-25%.

Calculating based on those numbers only makes it wrong to you because it doesn't fit a narrative, which is an opinion.

How many fifth wheels have you owned?
How many have you weighed?
How many have you towed?
How many campsites have you been to where people open their basement doors to show an empty compartment?

I think the answer you're going to have to all of the above is 0, but I'll wait. :)
 
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Riccochet

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"Half Ton" is just marketing. You hook any of those up to a half ton and you are going to have a bad day. And slapping some air bags on it doesn't change the axle rating.
 

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Those half ton 5ers have an ADVERTISED pin weight of 15%. It is not static. Most of the storage for clothing/bedding/bathroom is ahead of the axles in MOST RVs, which adds to the pin weight. Most of the water/waste storage is ahead of the axles, which adds to the pin weight. It is VERY easy to get one of those 'half ton' 5ers to 20% or greater pin weight - and for a LOT of half ton trucks that exceeds their GVW, and likely their RAGWR.

And everyone I know who camps on a semi-regular basis DOES put a ton of stuff in their trailer (heck my parents' camper is likely overloaded with all the crap my mother packs - it's no wonder dad still pulls it with an F450). Full kitchen utensils/cookware, campsite tools, leveling/hookup supplies, yard games, clothing, bedding, etc. etc. etc. all adds up, and for a family of 3-4 that's a LOT of stuff. Add in a full tank of water if you aren't going to be on a water/electric site and that's quite a bit of weight too.

Look, we get it, your mind is made up. We are telling you the numbers as they approximately are, and that the ADVERTISED weights of RVs are a guideline at best, and flat-out wrong at worst. If you want to run based off the advertised numbers, go right ahead - nothing we can say or do will stop you. We are just pointing out that your comments are based on opinions, not facts.

I used to own a small RV repair/hauling/renting business, so I've seen the numbers RV manufacturers play with. There was a reason all our 'work trucks' were duallies and not 1500s. It 100% had to do with payload and axle ratings.

Hey I'm one the said at Start... The PIN weights move... Even after he linked himself, 15%-25% Someone else even posted their 5th wheel had 24% or 26% pin weight.

TT are the same, it moves.

And course everyone plays with the numbers... Just like what's his name is doing to claim 1500 can't ever tow 5th wheel.

As I told him many times.... It depends on the design. We aren't talking about RV's made 40-50 years ago.

Fact is you CAN Tow 5th wheel with 1500 and be in your truck limits. Should you?? Likely not. For safety you should get at least 2500... But still doesn't change the fact you can do it.
 

2003F350

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Hey I'm one the said at Start... The PIN weights move... Even after he linked himself, 15%-25% Someone else even posted their 5th wheel had 24% or 26% pin weight.

TT are the same, it moves.

And course everyone plays with the numbers... Just like what's his name is doing to claim 1500 can't ever tow 5th wheel.

As I told him many times.... It depends on the design. We aren't talking about RV's made 40-50 years ago.

Fact is you CAN Tow 5th wheel with 1500 and be in your truck limits. Should you?? Likely not. For safety you should get at least 2500... But still doesn't change the fact you can do it.
If you've got one of the unicorn base 1500s with a high payload, and one of the smallest 5ers on the market, yeah, you can. But it's a unicorn setup - there aren't many of either one that will keep the combination in a 1500's rated capabilities. Very few people want a stripped-down truck anymore.
 

CanRebel

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If you've got one of the unicorn base 1500s with a high payload, and one of the smallest 5ers on the market, yeah, you can. But it's a unicorn setup - there aren't many of either one that will keep the combination in a 1500's rated capabilities. Very few people want a stripped-down truck anymore.

"Very few people want a stripped-down truck anymore." Maybe true. Can still buy them. The other guy that was posting in this thread had 17xx payload.
Ram sells a lot of them, if you believe stats that get posted.

That doesn't change the facts....You can do it. As I said, should you if different thing.

Oh funny thing......

/quote
My numbers are not off. 15% pin weight is not the calculation that anyone towing fifth wheels uses. The industry standard is 18-25%.
/quote

If you read 18 pages.... He claimed 1000 times "Standard" was 20% and only 20%.
 

nlambert182

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Hey I'm one the said at Start... The PIN weights move... Even after he linked himself, 15%-25% Someone else even posted their 5th wheel had 24% or 26% pin weight.

TT are the same, it moves.

And course everyone plays with the numbers... Just like what's his name is doing to claim 1500 can't ever tow 5th wheel.

As I told him many times.... It depends on the design. We aren't talking about RV's made 40-50 years ago.

Fact is you CAN Tow 5th wheel with 1500 and be in your truck limits. Should you?? Likely not. For safety you should get at least 2500... But still doesn't change the fact you can do it.
Where did I ever say pin weights were static? Literally nowhere. You can read through all 19 pages and try to pull that out.

I stand by that most 1500s (as I originally said) cannot tow a fifth wheel within their rated specs. We're not talking those 2 tiny trailers that are only a fifth wheel by hitch design. We're talking mass produced fifth wheels that most people drive by on an RV lot that are being advertised as half-ton towable.

It doesn't depend on the design of the trailer. Half ton towable fifth wheels are not truly half ton towable within spec UNLESS the truck is a unicorn truck (I've also said this). They are MARKETED as half ton towable using dry weights. I've said that ad nauseum.

So.... what's the issue?
 

nlambert182

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"Very few people want a stripped-down truck anymore." Maybe true. Can still buy them. The other guy that was posting in this thread had 17xx payload.
Ram sells a lot of them, if you believe stats that get posted.

That doesn't change the facts....You can do it. As I said, should you if different thing.

Oh funny thing......

/quote
My numbers are not off. 15% pin weight is not the calculation that anyone towing fifth wheels uses. The industry standard is 18-25%.
/quote

If you read 18 pages.... He claimed 1000 times "Standard" was 20% and only 20%.
Please, go find where I said 20% was THE standard. I'll wait.

The first time I mentioned 20%, I said there was a range. Page 4 if you need a refresher. I've said that ever since.

If you're going to quote me, actually quote me. Don't try to change what I said.
 

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A 1700 payload ain't going to cut it. 200-250 lbs for a hitch, even the light 5th wheels are going to have 1500+ lbs of pin weight. You're out of payload before even sitting in the truck.

There are, or used to be, some stripped down F150 HD's that had 2300-2400 lbs of payload, but they're rarer than hens teeth. And they don't make them anymore.
 

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Do you know what ASSume means??

The whole thing is posted is full of crap. As I said one IS NOT even a fifth wheel... Of course you ignored that fact.

Funny... You wrote "And those are "dry" pin weights."
You are just clueless, no wonder you keep posting stupid comments.
LOOK at the PIC.... It IS TT...

No wonder you keep posting wrong information. Learn how to use a computer.
Those who have no hard data always result to insults..."says you!, "you're one, too!". :rolleyes:

I maintained a CDL for 30 years prior to retirement and have towed literally every conceivable combination of truck/trailer/5th-wheel/gooseneck there is. If you want to understand how to properly set up and tow any load, pay attention to me because my numbers are always correct and I won't tow any other way. And I always maintain a 20% safety margin with any rig I am in control of - if the GVWR of the trailer is 10,000#, I will not exceed 8000# under any circumstances and that goes for pin weight/tongue weight also.

I simply made the assumption that @nlambert182 had used the advertised pin weights to simplify his post, even though no one with any knowledge ever uses that weight to calculate what they are capable of towing. And @nlambert182 knows what he is talking about. And yes, industry standards are 20% - 25% of GVWR as pin weight for a 5th-wheel. Just as 10% - 15% of GVWR tongue weight is the industry standard for travel trailers.
 

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I calculated the estimated wet pin weight. I never mention dry weights since they're irrelevant 100% of the time.
I see that now. I just figured you used the advertised pin weights to make the post easier. You have more patience than I do to take the time to do the calculations for all of them.
 

nlambert182

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It all boils down to some not being able to stand being told they're wrong. It doesn't mean they're bad people, just misguided.

Some would rather double down and deflect instead of just acknowledging a learning opportunity. I mean, that's what the forum is for, isn't it?
 

CanRebel

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It all boils down to some not being able to stand being told they're wrong. It doesn't mean they're bad people, just misguided.

Some would rather double down and deflect instead of just acknowledging a learning opportunity. I mean, that's what the forum is for, isn't it?

Wow... that's so funny... Keep posting wrong , false information and then claiming you know everything... WAY too funny.
 

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What did I post that's wrong? You keep saying that, and I keep providing data. You're just choosing to ignore it. List them out.
 

nlambert182

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I know... but sometimes it's fun. :)

CanRebel said:
You would be wrong. Wasn't anywhere close to payload. Also you would wrong the second part as well. My rebel had the option to add fifth wheel system from Factory. Since I don't own fifth wheel, I didn't add it. My friend did.

I proved that was never a factory option.

CanRebel said:
I don't see it on website anymore. I did ask my friend, he said dealer added it, not factory. SO I was wrong on that part.

Ratman6161 said:
Just out of curiosity, what were your weights on the scale when you weighed the rig?
CanRebel said:
I wasn't there when he did it. Just told me afterwards. We own three CAT scales. He did it in Quebec, I'm in Ontario.

CanRebel said:
Newer Trailers designed for 1500's is called Engineering, design, light materials, adjusting weight, less options. Keystone/Jayco and others have a bunch of them, designed for 1500's.
I listed the lightest ones this morning.... with the real numbers, proving that this isn't true.

I'm not digging through 20 pages, but proving the point. Everything I've provided has data behind it. Everything you've said has been what someone told you, or some interpretation that you've tried to make.

You also said I specifically said that 20% is the firm standard. I pointed you to page 4, post #44 where I specifically showed you snippets from multiple sites that all show the pin weight range should be in a range, with 20% as the typical goal. I even showed you the one directly from RAM that says it should be in the 15-25% range. Everything else says 18-25%, which is the industry standard.

Where have I posted anything that's wrong? Please quote it or link to it. If all you're going to do is make these claims with no data to back them up go sit at the kiddie table and let the grown ups talk.
 
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truck2569

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I can "haul" most anything with a 1/2-ton. Towing and controlling it is an entirely different thing. I know of a bunch of 28' 5th-wheels that a 1/2-ton can "haul". I can't think of any of those 5-ers that won't crush the suspension and/or overload the rear axle.
 

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I know... but sometimes it's fun. :)



I proved that was never a factory option.







I listed the lightest ones this morning.... with the real numbers, proving that this isn't true.

I'm not digging through 20 pages, but proving the point. Everything I've provided has data behind it. Everything you've said has been what someone told you, or some interpretation that you've tried to make.

You also said I specifically said that 20% is the firm standard. I pointed you to page 4, post #44 where I specifically showed you snippets from multiple sites that all show the pin weight range should be in a range, with 20% as the typical goal. I even showed you the one directly from RAM that says it should be in the 15-25% range. Everything else says 18-25%, which is the industry standard.

Where have I posted anything that's wrong? Please quote it or link to it. If all you're going to do is make these claims with no data to back them up go sit at the kiddie table and let the grown ups talk.
Wow
 
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