Fox Shocks and Icon....?

[hodge-xj]

Sorry it was quite a bit repetitive after I re read it. The lower crossmember drops all the important pieces to keep angles happy, the knuckle is longer to attach everything at the new lower mounted height to the oem upper, and the lift is achieved via shocks, spacers or a combo of both. My brains running in circles, but I hope it made sense. At 6" of lift your best bet would most likely be full length coilovers. There's other combinations that will work, but you'll yield better results with the latter, especially at 6". I'd almost say install the kit with the bilsteins, and new rear shocks and see how you like it. Most guys seem to say the ride is really good when not maxed out and than investigate upgrades from there. Full length coilovers aren't gonna be cheap no matter what manufacturers unfortunately, so I'd get it set up so you're happy with the ride height and than you have exact dimensions for the parts you need or want to upgrade.

Ps, did the kit come with all the appropriate hardware for driveshaft and transfer case? Those are easily overlooked and make for a way worse ride than stiff shocks. I'll take a rough ride over driveline vibrations any day. [emoji16]



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[hodge-xj]

^ beat me to it

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[BellevilleRam]

Sorry it was quite a bit repetitive after I re read it. The lower crossmember drops all the important pieces to keep angles happy, the knuckle is longer to attach everything at the new lower mounted height to the oem upper, and the lift is achieved via shocks, spacers or a combo of both. My brains running in circles, but I hope it made sense. At 6" of lift your best bet would most likely be full length coilovers. There's other combinations that will work, but you'll yield better results with the latter, especially at 6". I'd almost say install the kit with the bilsteins, and new rear shocks and see how you like it. Most guys seem to say the ride is really good when not maxed out and than investigate upgrades from there. Full length coilovers aren't gonna be cheap no matter what manufacturers unfortunately, so I'd get it set up so you're happy with the ride height and than you have exact dimensions for the parts you need or want to upgrade.

Ps, did the kit come with all the appropriate hardware for driveshaft and transfer case? Those are easily overlooked and make for a way worse ride than stiff shocks. I'll take a rough ride over driveline vibrations any day. [emoji16]



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As far as I know, the kit has all the bases covered to avoid any driveline problems. I guess I’ll find out soon one way or the other! Sorry for all the questions but if I went with a longer coil over instead of a strut spacer, would it give more suspension travel vs a stock length shock and spacer?

 

[hodge-xj]

As far as I know, the kit has all the bases covered to avoid any driveline problems. I guess I’ll find out soon one way or the other! Sorry for all the questions but if I went with a longer coil over instead of a strut spacer, would it give more suspension travel vs a stock length shock and spacer?

That idk off the top of my head. I've seen some of these replacement coilovers available and I can say I don't think so. At least not enough to really consider, most are an arbitrary amount. They seem to just increase the overall length of the body and cycle a similar amount to oem. That being said, this is for most users who want the bling to accompany their big lift. The 2 don't normally go hand in hand. The big lift guys usually don't care much about travel much and the long travel go fast guys don't give a hoot about lift, that's why they run bulged fibreglass. Room to cycle big travel and low lift.

I'd assume you could potentially get custom stroke coilovers, but than you need to cycle the suspension properly and check for all types of clearances. I'm a big fan of quality over quantity. If you stuff a properly tuned shock for the travel we have, it can feel quite amazing. I had 10" travel on my 2500 and when it was on proper go fast suspension it felt almost bottomless. Quality. I had 14 travel 5100s before I lowered it and went mid travel and even though they had more travel I'd lhave blown them up in one shot jumping that truck. I'm sure ram1500 and the others running kings can attest to this. Plus iirc these trucks push about 10" front travel with oem geometry. Not long travel by any means but than again a 1st generation Ford Raptor had 10" of travel so take that for what it's worth.

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[BellevilleRam]

That idk off the top of my head. I've seen some of these replacement coilovers available and I can say I don't think so. At least not enough to really consider, most are an arbitrary amount. They seem to just increase the overall length of the body and cycle a similar amount to oem. That being said, this is for most users who want the bling to accompany their big lift. The 2 don't normally go hand in hand. The big lift guys usually don't care much about travel much and the long travel go fast guys don't give a hoot about lift, that's why they run bulged fibreglass. Room to cycle big travel and low lift.

I'd assume you could potentially get custom stroke coilovers, but than you need to cycle the suspension properly and check for all types of clearances. I'm a big fan of quality over quantity. If you stuff a properly tuned shock for the travel we have, it can feel quite amazing. I had 10" travel on my 2500 and when it was on proper go fast suspension it felt almost bottomless. Quality. I had 14 travel 5100s before I lowered it and went mid travel and even though they had more travel I'd lhave blown them up in one shot jumping that truck. I'm sure ram1500 and the others running kings can attest to this. Plus iirc these trucks push about 10" front travel with oem geometry. Not long travel by any means but than again a 1st generation Ford Raptor had 10" of travel so take that for what it's worth.

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Thanks again for the info! I’m thinking it might be worth me looking into King 2.5’s with external reservoirs and just going with OEM length specs with the supplied strut spacers from my lift kit. Quality over quantity as you said. Might even go with the compression adjusters too if I’m going to do it right! I used to love tuning the high and low speed compression on my downhill mountain bike suspension when that was my thing so I do have experience with that side of things.

 

[hodge-xj]

Thanks again for the info! I’m thinking it might be worth me looking into King 2.5’s with external reservoirs and just going with OEM length specs with the supplied strut spacers from my lift kit. Quality over quantity as you said. Might even go with the compression adjusters too if I’m going to do it right! I used to love tuning the high and low speed compression on my downhill mountain bike suspension when that was my thing so I do have experience with that side of things.

This is my mini thread hijack [emoji869][emoji16]

if you're gonna go that route I'd say get the kit put in with the bilstein, that way you can iron out the kinks it there are any, and you'll know exactly what the front is set at so guess work will be minimal. Than just save up and toss some goodies in there. I'd say call and find out how much full length kings are gonna cost versus the oem ones. The price difference may not be much, it's at least worth a shot. You won't be disappointed

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[BellevilleRam]

This is my mini thread hijack [emoji869][emoji16]

if you're gonna go that route I'd say get the kit put in with the bilstein, that way you can iron out the kinks it there are any, and you'll know exactly what the front is set at so guess work will be minimal. Than just save up and toss some goodies in there. I'd say call and find out how much full length kings are gonna cost versus the oem ones. The price difference may not be much, it's at least worth a shot. You won't be disappointed

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Nice ride! On one of my other bikes I ran 888’s up front too!

 

[hodge-xj]

No wonder you want your truck to ride plush

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[wisey113]

the custom length kings will run you an extra 200 per pair. You can get custom length OEM Series Shocks from King. They will ask you for the collapsed and extended length you want for the shocks, allowing you to choose the amount of travel you want. With some good UCA's you may be able to squeeze an inch or two of more travel out of the setup, but at some point, your upper / lower arms / links etc... are going to limit your travel unless you step up into a mid / long travel setup. I opted for the custom length kings simply because it felt a little stupid to order such a high quality setup, and then stick a spacer on top of it.

I also have to agree with hodge though that a 6" lift and amount of suspension travel don't often go together. If I'd have known what I know now about suspension, I'd have forgone the lift completely and gone with a Mid-Travel setup, but that's just because it would have suited my use better.

If you want to go with the kings, you could always call ProComp and ask them what the collapsed / extended lengths of the 6" coilovers that they provide with their kit, and just pass that info on to King.

 

[hodge-xj]

the custom length kings will run you an extra 200 per pair. You can get custom length OEM Series Shocks from King. They will ask you for the collapsed and extended length you want for the shocks, allowing you to choose the amount of travel you want. With some good UCA's you may be able to squeeze an inch or two of more travel out of the setup, but at some point, your upper / lower arms / links etc... are going to limit your travel unless you step up into a mid / long travel setup. I opted for the custom length kings simply because it felt a little stupid to order such a high quality setup, and then stick a spacer on top of it.

I also have to agree with hodge though that a 6" lift and amount of suspension travel don't often go together. If I'd have known what I know now about suspension, I'd have forgone the lift completely and gone with a Mid-Travel setup, but that's just because it would have suited my use better.

If you want to go with the kings, you could always call ProComp and ask them what the collapsed / extended lengths of the 6" coilovers that they provide with their kit, and just pass that info on to King.

Right on the money with this. For the extra coin id spring for the custom length ones and, like wisey said, ditch the spacers all together. You can have your cake and eat it too, to an extent. You gain a bit of travel, and get the ride you want, which is what you're really after.

Once you get the lift installed and set to desired ride height, we can all help you get the proper numbers you'll need to order them. A little time in shop, and a lighter wallet and you'll be riding right.

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[BellevilleRam]

Right on the money with this. For the extra coin id spring for the custom length ones and, like wisey said, ditch the spacers all together. You can have your cake and eat it too, to an extent. You gain a bit of travel, and get the ride you want, which is what you're really after.

Once you get the lift installed and set to desired ride height, we can all help you get the proper numbers you'll need to order them. A little time in shop, and a lighter wallet and you'll be riding right.

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Awesome! Where would I order custom King shocks from? I live in Ontario Canada.

 

[hodge-xj]

Awesome! Where would I order custom King shocks from? I live in Ontario Canada.

Hmmmm......thats a good question.

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[novelmike]

I had 10" travel on my 2500 and when it was on proper go fast suspension it felt almost bottomless. Quality. I had 14 travel 5100s before I lowered it and went mid travel and even though they had more travel I'd lhave blown them up in one shot jumping that truck. I'm sure ram1500 and the others running kings can attest to this. Plus iirc these trucks push about 10" front travel with oem geometry. Not long travel by any means but than again a 1st generation Ford Raptor had 10" of travel so take that for what it's worth.

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I’m not sure If I am miss reading this or not; how much wheel travel does a stock Ram 1500 4x4 have?

 

[ram1500rsm]

Thanks again for the info! I’m thinking it might be worth me looking into King 2.5’s with external reservoirs and just going with OEM length specs with the supplied strut spacers from my lift kit. Quality over quantity as you said. Might even go with the compression adjusters too if I’m going to do it right! I used to love tuning the high and low speed compression on my downhill mountain bike suspension when that was my thing so I do have experience with that side of things.

Don't do that, get the proper lenght coilover, you'll spend a bunch of money in a performance coilover to run a strut spacer on top of it? lol, nobody does that, even when there is money to burn hahaha, block the spacers out of your mind. You're over complicating this stuff up.

JB1 posted the link with your Procomp kit, did you look into it ? in that documentation you'll find The Procomp coilover that will fit your kit, Procomp 626500, and from a google search i think it's a 4" CO...,contact Procomp and see what other pertinent info you can get form them and the kit as a whole, what other CO's will fit?, see if they can give you the lenght you need, also what springs can you run in the back without using spacers, etc.

If you don't want to go straight with what your kit vendor offers, I posted the longer Fox CO 4-6" you could run in the Procomp kit, i could bet money they're 4-5" CO's, turn the adjuster until your truck is raised to 6" , simple as that, if you feel adding more, just ask for the dual compression adjusters and you're done, you just need to worry about installing the kit and setting the correct height in those CO's

If you want King CO's, Fox provides the extended/compressed values, You could ask Kings to make you the same thing, Custom sizes are not much more expensive, Call Filthy Motorports and see what they can do for you, they seem to be the King Gurus around, they might know the lenght you need in your Procomp 6" kit, if they don't, you'll have some work to do, contact the vendors dude, this chit is not cheap, i'd think considering the money involved that all the vendors should be more than happy to answer all the questions you may have.

 

[BellevilleRam]

Thanks again folks! As Far as this whole strut spacer thing, I still don’t understand what the downside actually is? To my understanding, going with a longer shock won’t necessarily give any more travel right? The added shock length is simply to make up the height for the lowered parts affected by the lift kit is it not?
I’m not trying to debate anyone’s advice or posts, just want to understand the actual downsides if any to these strut spacers. Perhaps I’m using the wrong terminology and that’s the problem? I’m saying spacers but really I guess extensions might be a better word for them? I will go with the correct length shocks as has been recommended. I was checking out the Thuren website and see that they offer custom valving for King shocks. Based on their chart I would be desiring stage 1 or stage 2. I’d be curious to know where on their chart a stock King shock would sit if anyone knows?

STAGE ONE - RIDES UNBELIEVABLE ON THE HIGHWAY AND PERFORMS GREAT ON MILD GRAVEL ROADS. VALVING IS LIGHT ENOUGH TO COMPLETELY ABSORB EVEN THE LARGEST POTHOLES, HIGHWAY EXPANSION JOINTS, AND EXCELS ON SMALL CHOPPY TERRAIN. STAGE ONE FRONT VALVING IS THE LIGHTEST VALVING WE HAVE, AND CAN STILL BOTTOM OUT EASILY ONCE YOU GET MORE AGGRESSIVE OFF ROAD. COMFORT AND POSSIBLE SPEED OFF ROAD IS STILL ABOUT DOUBLE WHAT IS POSSIBLE WITH THE STOCK SHOCKS.

- STAGE TWO - HIGHWAY RIDE IS STILL TOP-NOTCH, BUT THE SUSPENSION WILL NOW HAVE A SLIGHT SPORTS CAR TYPE FEEL TO IT. LARGE POTHOLES AND RUTS ARE ABSORBED THE SAME AS STAGE ONE, BUT THE SMALLER HOLES AND BUMPS HAVE A BIT MORE ENTRY FEEL. OFF ROAD PERFORMANCE AND BOTTOMING RESISTANCE IS INCREASED ABOUT 10% FROM STAGE ONE.

- STAGE THREE - THE MOST COMMON VALVING DESIGN WE USE. HIGHWAY RIDE IS STILL MUCH BETTER THAN STOCK, AND WITH THE RIGHT COMPONENTS, THE OFF ROAD PERFORMANCE INCREASE IS HUGE. LARGE POTHOLES, CURB SIZE BUMPS, RUTTED DIRT ROADS, AND SMALL SAND WHOOPS ARE NO PROBLEM. MORE SPEED EQUALS MORE FORCE TO PUSH THROUGH THE VALVING AND SMOOTH OUT THE RIDE IN THIS TYPE OF TERRAIN.

- STAGE FOUR - THIS IS WHERE THE OFF ROAD PERFORMANCE REALLY INCREASES, AND DESIRES SPEED. THE OFF ROAD SPEEDS ATTAINED CAN LET THE REALLY BIG HITS COME UP QUICK. ON ROAD RIDE IS STILL BETTER THAN STOCK ALL AROUND, BUT WILL START TO FEEL MORE FIRM ON THE LARGER POTHOLES AND BUMPS COMPARED TO STAGE THREE.

- STAGE FIVE - WITH THIS MUCH VALVING THE SUSPENSION DOES NOT ABSORB THE SMALLER BUMPS AS EASY, AND IS DESIGNED TO NOW REALLY RESIST BOTTOMING OUT. LARGE POTHOLES AND SMALL SPEED BUMPS ARE NOW ABOUT THE SAME FEEL AS THE STOCK SUSPENSION, BUT DO STILL GET ABSORBED WITH ENOUGH SPEED. THE HIGHWAY RIDE IS MORE BALANCED THAN STOCK, BUT HAS ABOUT THE SAME FEEL ON AVERAGE.

- STAGE SIX - PRETTY MUCH FOCUSED ON RACE SPEED OFF ROAD PERFORMANCE. SMALLER SQUARE EDGE BUMPS WILL BE PRONOUNCED, BUT THE BIGGER ROLLERS AND WHOOPS JUST WANT MORE SPEED. LARGE SAND WHOOPS CAN BE SKIPPED ACROSS WITH THE CORRECT LINE AND SKILL. THIS VALVING CAN TEST THE LIMITS OF ANY DRIVER AND LET THE TRUCK OBTAIN JAW DROPPING SPEED IN THE ROUGH. TO DRIVE YOUR DODGE RAM AT THE LIMITS OF THIS VALVING WILL REQUIRE VAST OFF ROAD DRIVING SKILL AND EXPERIENCE. HIGHWAY RIDE IS COMPROMISED WHEN CONTACTING LARGE POTHOLES AND BUMPS, BUT FREEWAY EXPANSION JOINTS ARE STILL MORE BALANCED THAN STOCK.

 

[hodge-xj]

You are up early, but it's never too early for coilovers!!

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[hodge-xj]

Stage 1 of you're truck won't leave pavement much, if ever. Stage 2 if you want to have a little fun in the dirt . Both will ride like pillows, stage 2 just helps prevent bottoming out a bit better just in case you hit something a bit harder than expected. I want to say ram1500s valving is in line with stage 3 as per conversations with thuren long ago comparing his valving profiles to others.

Also, just be honest with how hard you will be pushing it and you're true intentions. For me on the east coast, my type of offroading is totally different than guys out west. So I run way lighter valving since I am normally crawling in 4lo and bouncing around under 5mph. If i was banging through the desert or had long fire road areas of run 2 or 3 valving, but that would be something you know better than us. For a street and low speed offroad rig I'd run stage 1 and call it done. But anything over like 30 mph off road I'd look at 2 or 3 just because you'll blow through the travel easily on mild hits.

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[JB1]

Thanks again folks! As Far as this whole strut spacer thing, I still don’t understand what the downside actually is? To my understanding, going with a longer shock won’t necessarily give any more travel right? The added shock length is simply to make up the height for the lowered parts affected by the lift kit is it not?
I’m not trying to debate anyone’s advice or posts, just want to understand the actual downsides if any to these strut spacers.

Yes you are correct, the top spacer is just to make up that space, it provides no lift whatsoever as they would on a level non suspension lifted truck. It's there so you can run the stock oem struts which would give an oem ride. The rear spacer also allows you to run the stock coils for an oem ride. They design these lift kits to give you an oem stock ride just at a different height. Therefore if you install the lift kit on a stock truck and keep the stock tires it will ride the exact same as it did before.

If you buy the pro comp kit with the upgraded coilover, 4-6 Fox or had custom length coilovers made it will be longer and you won't use the top spacer.

I'm looking forward to seeing this $7000 custom lift with Kings

 

[BellevilleRam]

Stage 1 of you're truck won't leave pavement much, if ever. Stage 2 if you want to have a little fun in the dirt . Both will ride like pillows, stage 2 just helps prevent bottoming out a bit better just in case you hit something a bit harder than expected. I want to say ram1500s valving is in line with stage 3 as per conversations with thuren long ago comparing his valving profiles to others.

Also, just be honest with how hard you will be pushing it and you're true intentions. For me on the east coast, my type of offroading is totally different than guys out west. So I run way lighter valving since I am normally crawling in 4lo and bouncing around under 5mph. If i was banging through the desert or had long fire road areas of run 2 or 3 valving, but that would be something you know better than us. For a street and low speed offroad rig I'd run stage 1 and call it done. But anything over like 30 mph off road I'd look at 2 or 3 just because you'll blow through the travel easily on mild hits.

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Thanks for the feedback. I think that the stage 2 ride quality is probably the ride I’m mostly going to want. Now the question is this. I wonder if I were to buy Fox 2.5’s with the adjustable compression if they would allow me to get soft enough compression to ride similarly to those Thuren stage 2 Kings but also have the ability to crank up the compression if I do find a good place to utilize firmer valving? I am assuming that the cost would be less than custom tuned Kings. I do like the idea of being able to firm things up when required but still have that cushy ride over smaller stuff. Sorry for so many questions guys! Lol I just want to get what will make me happy in the long run. As for using strut spacers or not from what I have read it seems a moot point as far as actual performance goes unless the longer shocks also give more travel?

 

[ram1500rsm]

Thanks for the feedback. I think that the stage 2 ride quality is probably the ride I’m mostly going to want. Now the question is this. I wonder if I were to buy Fox 2.5’s with the adjustable compression if they would allow me to get soft enough compression to ride similarly to those Thuren stage 2 Kings but also have the ability to crank up the compression if I do find a good place to utilize firmer valving? I am assuming that the cost would be less than custom tuned Kings. I do like the idea of being able to firm things up when required but still have that cushy ride over smaller stuff. Sorry for so many questions guys! Lol I just want to get what will make me happy in the long run. As for using strut spacers or not from what I have read it seems a moot point as far as actual performance goes unless the longer shocks also give more travel?

Is not a moot point, a top spacer is shifting the physical location of your struts down making your bumpstop useless. You're mixing the concept of a street poser with the benefits of a tuned suspension. Don't put spacers in anything if you want to go fast in the rough. leave the spacers for the street queens with the 24's lol.
Travel is still the same with the longer CO, just extended up/down relative to the lower mounting point, the upper one is still the same, bumpstop is placed where it should to do the job, and your 6" of travel shock is cycling as it should, if you want more travel, you have to change your lower control arms and make them wider, still no place for any upper strut spacer but a much longer CO.

Look at post 26 and 27 here
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/fox-coilover-lift-block.273913/page-2