Gas vs Diesel

[ramffml]

If you're trying to base a decision solely off risk

Good grief. That's not the argument, the argument is buying two trucks to do the same job and the cost/risk is much higher on the one vs the other. It's not that its a risk, it's that its a completely needless risk unless you absolutely need a diesel.

Or you just prefer to drive diesel, fine, no issues with that, just don't try to convince anyone it's cheaper because you're only fooling yourself.

, you're better off staying at home and not driving at all. Don't fly, don't boat, don't swim. You're at a risk with everything you do. You have to determine what YOUR risk threshold is. It isn't the same for everyone. What you call a risk is little to no risk for me but for you it is.

More nonsense. See above.

 

[truck2014]

Because lots of people are fine with spending $10k extra to go faster, and have owned 2 or 3 trucks at the most with a couple hundred thousand "mostly trouble free" miles between the lot of them.

Use whatever math you like to justify it to your wife. I'm telling you, best case financially is a wash. Worst case is a $20k engine replacement. You can replace an entire gas engine for what a fuel system failure on a diesel costs. That's a hell of a risk to take if you aren't towing real heavy real often.

Your logic just doesn’t fly . I’ve been in this towing game for a good 50 years , you couldn’t give me a gas powered truck . I’ve towed many many miles with gas , and some of it not a pleasant experience, screaming hi rpm’s, white knuckle coming off steep grades , under powered etc etc .

I will say I certainly wouldn’t own a diesel powered truck for daily use , doesn’t make sense . I tow heavy ,my Ram gets used for what it’s intended for. If it gets 5k or 20k a year , it gets worked .

There’s no monetary, or justification in my mind whatsoever. As said I don’t want to listen to a screaming V8 climbing a mountain grade , nor a white knuckled butt puckered experience coming off a long 10-15 mile grade . Every time I come off these mountain grades that I do annually I get a smile on my face with this Cummins . One especially in Idaho , around a 10 mile grade , it’s only 60 mph , no big curves . I set the cruise for 50 , she runs 55 , and I don’t touch a thing until the bottom. Feels no different than running on a flat road . Relaxed drive going up , and down that grade , that six banger Cummins just chugs up that grade without a lot of effort.

I can guarantee you my wife enjoys the towing ability of a diesel, I never had to sell her on anything. I decided to go diesel 26 years ago , my truck , my decision. Her car her decision on what see wants . That’s how it works with us . Been married for 54 years to her , and we have never bought a single thing we couldn’t afford , or tried to justify why we were buying it . It’s what we want , we can afford it , we buy it . Pretty simple process for us . No cost analysis, no worrying about what COULD happen. We don’t live that way .

 

[truck2014]

Good grief. That's not the argument, the argument is buying two trucks to do the same job and the cost/risk is much higher on the one vs the other. It's not that its a risk, it's that its a completely needless risk unless you absolutely need a diesel.

Or you just prefer to drive diesel, fine, no issues with that, just don't try to convince anyone it's cheaper because you're only fooling yourself.


More nonsense. See above.

Needless risk , not sure what that even means . We can do the what if’s all day long . It made me laugh “needless risk “ when I read it . Some of you gentlemen or ladies make it sound like life or death here .

As you said , good grief . I’ve said many times to people , and a few times on a forum, a diesel powered truck would be the last truck I’d own if it wasn’t for towing . We can go back , and forth on this debate , if you will . But I’ve been on both sides here towing , and we can make the argument all day about this or that . But the end of the day towing I found diesel all the way . As said the monetary thing is not an issue , nor if I’m going to have emission problems.

In the OP’s case , we have lost a little perspective on his needs , he’s towing heavy heavy . I can’t see where there is even an argument ,but diesel . Its the right tool for the job .

 

[ramffml]

Needless risk , not sure what that even means .

The context makes it very clear: I said you have two trucks that can do the job, one has the risk of needing very costly repairs. You don't need to buy the more expensive one, it's a needless purchase when the other one without the cost is able to do the job.

This is a completely different type of risk that the guy I was responding to was talking about, where you actually do need to go and live life and get groceries.

 

[nlambert182]

Good grief. That's not the argument, the argument is buying two trucks to do the same job and the cost/risk is much higher on the one vs the other. It's not that its a risk, it's that its a completely needless risk unless you absolutely need a diesel.

Or you just prefer to drive diesel, fine, no issues with that, just don't try to convince anyone it's cheaper because you're only fooling yourself.


More nonsense. See above.

If the trucks can do the job equally well then the justification for a gasser works. I swear you don't read or listen. You act like I've never said gassers have a place.

The OP that I was responding to said it's a risk. I answered THAT post. You cannot say that it's a needless risk when again... 1) you've never owned one to understand the "risks" and 2) you don't know specifically whether its a risk or not for that particular person's needs. Determining whether one needs a diesel or not if both "can" do the job boils down to outlying factors such as which one can do it more efficiently (IF that is a criteria that they need to meet).

Depending on HOW you use the truck, it CAN be cheaper. I've NEVER ANYWHERE said it is always cheaper. I've said again that it depends on the use case. Listen.

 

[nlambert182]

The context makes it very clear: I said you have two trucks that can do the job, one has the risk of needing very costly repairs. You don't need to buy the more expensive one, it's a needless purchase when the other one without the cost is able to do the job.

This is a completely different type of risk that the guy I was responding to was talking about, where you actually do need to go and live life and get groceries.

You left it too vague.

In the OP's case, a gasser might be able to move the load.

But, here's one example of something what we don't know. Does he have a timeline to make the deliveries? (IE, so many per day, etc...) If so, will the gasser meet the timeline? We already know that the diesel will get it there quicker and with less effort. IF that's important to the OP, then the diesel might win. IF it isn't, then the gasser is still a consideration.

There are many other factors to consider besides the base cost of buying a diesel vs a gasser. You have to understand all of the other factors that may play into a decision and is WHY I've said a million times, each has it's place. YOU tend to want to steer everyone from a truck you've never owned instead of looking at the variables and considering what is the best overall choice for the task at hand. For what reason, who knows...

 

[ramffml]

If the trucks can do the job equally well then the justification for a gasser works. I swear you don't read or listen. You act like I've never said gassers have a place.

The OP that I was responding to said it's a risk. I answered THAT post. You cannot say that it's a needless risk when again... 1) you've never owned one to understand the "risks" and 2) you don't know specifically whether its a risk or not for that particular person's needs. Determining whether one needs a diesel or not if both "can" do the job boils down to outlying factors such as which one can do it more efficiently (IF that is a criteria that they need to meet).

Depending on HOW you use the truck, it CAN be cheaper. I've NEVER ANYWHERE said it is always cheaper. I've said again that it depends on the use case. Listen.

You're the one not listening lol. Why would anybody argue that gassers should always be purchased when they can't do the job?

Obviously the argument has always been: if the gasser can do it, the gasser will be cheaper for 99% of everybody that doesn't use them full time/commerically.

 

[ramffml]

You left it too vague.

In the OP's case, a gasser might be able to move the load.

But, here's one example of something what we don't know. Does he have a timeline to make the deliveries? (IE, so many per day, etc...) If so, will the gasser meet the timeline? We already know that the diesel will get it there quicker and with less effort. IF that's important to the OP, then the diesel might win. IF it isn't, then the gasser is still a consideration.

That's some funny **** right there. Maybe try and read the original post where he literally says: "I am willing to slow down a bit".

Weren't you the one telling me to "listen"? I swear lambert...

There are many other factors to consider besides the base cost of buying a diesel vs a gasser. You have to understand all of the other factors that may play into a decision and is WHY I've said a million times, each has it's place.

It's never been just "base cost". It's always been total cost of ownership.

YOU tend to want to steer everyone from a truck you've never owned

How many times have you recommended a Ford lightning for this kind of job? Be honest. I'll wait.

instead of looking at the variables and considering what is the best overall choice for the task at hand. For what reason, who knows...

I'm just here for the giggles apparently.

 

[Choupique]

been in this towing game for a good 50 years

Sounds like you might actually need a diesel. The majority of people purchasing for private ownership do not, and do some extreme mental gymnastics to justify having one after they've paid for it.

Just say it's worth the money to outrun traffic up the hill and not hit the brakes going down. That's what all the money gets you if you don't actually NEED it.

 

[Choupique]

the argument has always been: if the gasser can do it, the gasser will be cheaper for 99% of everybody that doesn't use them full time/commerically.

Yea, that. Yall are nuts.

 

[ramffml]

Yea, that. Yall are nuts.

Says the dude recommending hard for a diesel truck to tow a few thousand miles a year

 

[ramffml]

This thread in a nutshell.

OP asks: I need a truck
cummins dude: you need a cummins

OP: to tow a few thousand miles per year
cummins dude: you need a cummins

OP: I'm ok with taking it easy up the hills
cummins dude: you need a cummins to roar up the hills

OP: trailer has really great brakes:
cummins dude: you need a cummins to roar down the hills and stop ya

OP: I'm pretty concerned about the economics
cummins dude: you need a cummins

gasser dude: you don't need a cummins
cummins dude: y'all are nuts


How did I do, did I miss anything?

 

[KYPOTLICKER]

Good luck OP, hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[Choupique]

Says the dude recommending hard for a diesel truck to tow a few thousand miles a year

You got me crossed with somebody else. I'd never recommend a diesel for this use case.

 

[2003F350]

This thread in a nutshell.

OP asks: I need a truck
cummins dude: you need a cummins

OP: to tow a few thousand miles per year
cummins dude: you need a cummins

OP: I'm ok with taking it easy up the hills
cummins dude: you need a cummins to roar up the hills

OP: trailer has really great brakes:
cummins dude: you need a cummins to roar down the hills and stop ya

OP: I'm pretty concerned about the economics
cummins dude: you need a cummins

gasser dude: you don't need a cummins
cummins dude: y'all are nuts


How did I do, did I miss anything?

Quite a bit. Where several of us repeatedly told OP that it's up to him, and that there are many things to consider when deciding. Followed with what WE would do in a similar situation, but none of us said 'you need this.'

Honestly? Feels like you come into these threads just to argue and stir things up, without offering much for real input. Like how the 6.4 can wipe out its entire valve train, or some guys with 6.4s have had their transmission fall apart multiple times before 100k. Sure, the 6.7 has an expensive exhaust and fuel system, but if it's properly maintained it won't give you any issues, and the exhaust filter system works best when it's run hard, either at highway speeds or when pulling.

Honestly? Feels like the Mods need to lock this thread up, just like a lot of other ones.

 

[ramffml]

Quite a bit. Where several of us repeatedly told OP that it's up to him, and that there are many things to consider when deciding. Followed with what WE would do in a similar situation, but none of us said 'you need this.'

Honestly? Feels like you come into these threads just to argue and stir things up, without offering much for real input.
Like how the 6.4 can wipe out its entire valve train, or some guys with 6.4s have had their transmission fall apart multiple times before 100k. Sure, the 6.7 has an expensive exhaust and fuel system, but if it's properly maintained it won't give you any issues, and the exhaust filter system works best when it's run hard, either at highway speeds or when pulling.

Honestly? Feels like the Mods need to lock this thread up, just like a lot of other ones.

That last post was obviously a tiny bit tongue in cheek and exaggerated but it's not that far off either.

You can replace an entire hemi for the cost of turbo, emissions and/or injector issues and carry on for another few hundred thousand miles.

The ZF 8 speed is an excellent transmission and literally everyone who ones one prefers it over the 6 speed in the 2500 diesel.

Some days I just get nauseous over the BS in these diesel threads and it gets dumped on a few of you, nothing personal, use the ignore button if you like I won't lose any sleep.

But why whine about the thread and how it needs locking when you can just stop posting and move on.

 

[Danny Phillips]

I went the diesel route. I Have a 2015 2500 I'm thinking of selling it soon. Best mileage I have had is 16 The way my truck sits now it weighs in at 9100 pounds. The back seat is full of tools, about 350 pounds of ammo, in the box in the bed more tools, targets, shooting bags, etc. I leave the 5 th wheel hitch in full time. I picked the RAM mainly for the engine brake, and I love the Cummins.

 

[truck2014]

Sounds like you might actually need a diesel. The majority of people purchasing for private ownership do not, and do some extreme mental gymnastics to justify having one after they've paid for it.

Just say it's worth the money to outrun traffic up the hill and not hit the brakes going down. That's what all the money gets you if you don't actually NEED it.

I don’t actually need a lot of things . Do I really need a fifth wheel , it depreciates faster than anything on the planet , it’s literally a peace of **** right out of the box , one of the most poorly built items you can buy . But I have enjoyed having it . I’ve had numerous RV’s , on my fourth fifth wheel .

I bought my first diesel when I was towing a 8k travel trailer with a gas truck . I just wanted a diesel , still do. I won’t tow without one , when them days are over , so will the diesel . Since that 8k trailer , as said there’s been four fifth wheels. I don’t care if a gas truck would have handled any of them . I want to tow with a diesel truck. I know the difference towing with one over the other . Don’t like gas for pulling ANYTHING over these steep mountain grades here in the mountain west .

I certainly don’t know your experience about towing , but you talk a little bit of trash about the process . Ever come off a long 10-20 mile long mountain pass with 14-15k pushing you , you ever seen a semi coming off one with brakes on fire , gives you an idea what gravity, and weight does . Ever heat your brakes up on your truck , towing heavy coming off a long mountain pass without an EB , I have , it’s not for faint of heart . You have little or no brakes. Ever ask yourself or seen runaway ramps on long mountain passes ?? You say so I can outrun traffic up the hill , no , buts it’s nice not going 30 , and holding up traffic on some of the secondary roads . And we’ve already discussed the downhill side of it , no need for going over that again .

I’ve explained why the need for wanting to tow with a diesel powered truck , there was never any mental extreme gymnastics involved .

 

[truck2014]

That last post was obviously a tiny bit tongue in cheek and exaggerated but it's not that far off either.

You can replace an entire hemi for the cost of turbo, emissions and/or injector issues and carry on for another few hundred thousand miles.

The ZF 8 speed is an excellent transmission and literally everyone who ones one prefers it over the 6 speed in the 2500 diesel.

Some days I just get nauseous over the BS in these diesel threads and it gets dumped on a few of you, nothing personal, use the ignore button if you like I won't lose any sleep.

But why whine about the thread and how it needs locking when you can just stop posting and move on.

Seriously the price of a turbo . Now what world are you living in .


I won’t try to argue transmissions, don’t know enough about them . But the 68rfe has done well by me . The Aisin that’s a different animal , but I believe you mentioned 2500 specifically, knowing the Aisin isn’t offered , just the 3500 on up . Although my truck is a 3500 with the 68 .

Not sure why you mention transmission’s, I guess buy a gasser over the diesel so you can have a 8 speed because EVERYONE says it’s better ????

 

[Choupique]

know the difference towing with one over the other

Well, one is a turbo diesel with 1000 ft-lbs of torque and the other is not, so of course there's a difference.

People think a gas v8 turning 4200 rpm for 20 minutes is horrible for it, but wouldn't hesitate to run an outboard motor around at 4200 rpm everywhere it goes It's whole life. Both are designed for it and will happily do it practically forever if cared for. Sure, it's noisy and burns a lot of gas. The diesel is also noisy and burns a lot of fuel ripping up long grades.

The exhaust brake is great, no doubt about that. It's hardly a must have though, unless you are towing heavy and aerodynamic loads that likely require the diesel anyway. Within the constraints of its rating, the gas engine is fine. Even towing up and down grades within what it is designed for.

don’t know your experience about towing ,

I've been a farmer my whole life. I've dragged a whole lot of stuff around with severely overloaded old busted up farm trucks that couldn't run out of sight in a week both gas and diesel. I enjoy my modern diesel truck, but I got it because I wanted it. A whole lot of the farm hands are running gas 1 tons now because they've all been burned by expensive diesel repairs in recent history and have seen the gas trucks just keep on dragging hay drama-free.