Gas vs Diesel

[dmcent63]

Gas or diesel, up to the buyer. Unless towing in mountains or constantly churning through mud, gas could work for low miles. Bigger issue is payload, 2500 is way over burdened as loaded trailer is placing at least 3700 pounds into the truck, with people and stuff that maxes even a 3500 SRW and exceeds a 2500 by a grand. A 3500 DRW is the only option unless dropping the bed, then a 3500 SRW could work.

I read the whole thread to see if someone brought this up. The gentleman may want to consider since he is operating as a business sizing the truck by load capacity then choosing the power plant. The 3/4 ton may perform the job but the liability generated by towing above the trucks load capacity may bite you in the event of an accident or a DOT inspection. I used to own a 3/4 ton towing a 10k dump trailer and was constantly harassed by NYS Troopers That performed the DOT functions and I was within legal limits.

 

[truck2014]

How old is it and how many miles?

DEF has issues with long term storage above ~80*F. Unless you live in an ideal climate for it, you're going to have issues if you aren't burning through it or replacing it often enough.

I do this for a living. If the diesel was the right choice, fleets wouldn't be buying gas burners. Diesel is certainly more fun to drive but it loses the financial battle to the gasser 10/10 times. If we are talking business the only reason you get a diesel is because you can't get a gas rated for the job.

Been towing with diesels now for 26 years , before that of course gas , big reason I went to diesels . Some of the old gassers did a fair job , but would suck dents in the gas tanks it was burning it so fast . That , and a screaming V8 climbing a grade . In the OP’s case get the right tool for the job , which is a 3500 6.7 Cummins .

As some have disagreed with you , I’m in the same camp . Got enough years towing to know what works well , and let’s say what works. Diesel works well towing heavy , gas works, maybe.

 

[truck2014]

Where the heck are you that diesel is a dollar more a gallon than gas? My local diesel is roughly the same price as mid grade gas right now. I just filled up yesterday for $3.49 a gallon

.

How long do you think that’s going to last , being the same price ?? How many years has diesel been more , like at least $.50 more , and will again . Right now I can buy diesel cheaper than regular gas . Diesel is $3.39

 

[truck2014]

The 6.4/8-speed will do just fine on its own to keep your speed under control.

I’m certainty not up to date on what a gasser would do coming off a steep grade , with a 15k fifth wheel pushing you , but I do know what an older powerstroke without EB would do , and it was white knuckle experience. Yup ,wouldn’t own a truck without EB for where I tow in the mountains here in the west .

 

[truck2014]

Very Nice...
You insulted the Man and his location at the same time. Missed insulting his Mother and his Dog though - rookie mistake.

For what it's worth, I have to agree with Tulecreeper. In my area Diesel normally ranges from $0.50 to $1.00 more than 87 octane. And yes I am a Diesel guy and I do keep track of prices. In the past couple of months Diesel has been coming down. It's currently around $0.50 more than 87 octane.

Just for grins, I decided to check prices around Georgia, Mobile, and Sparks NV using Gasbuddy. The table below summarizes the results.

Diesel is more expensive in all locations EXCEPT for Sparks NV. As Motoman501 indicated, things are a bit strange there. Diesel prices are about the same as my location. It's gas prices that are out of sight.

Sooo, not sure what crap hole you call home (insult intended), but put up or shut up.

Location	87 Octane	87 Octane	Diesel	Diesel	Low Price Difference	High Price Difference
	Low Price	High Price	Low Price	High Price	Diesel - 87 Oct	Diesel - 87 Oct
Indiana	$ 3.31	$ 3.75	$ 3.85	$ 4.24	$ 0.54	$ 0.49
Mobile, AL	$ 2.94	$ 3.19	$ 3.29	$ 3.89	$ 0.35	$ 0.70
Atlanta, GA	$ 3.28	$ 3.85	$ 3.79	$ 4.59	$ 0.51	$ 0.74
Savannah, GA	$ 3.29	$ 4.09	$ 3.64	$ 4.49	$ 0.35	$ 0.40
Augusta, GA	$ 3.15	$ 3.53	$ 3.40	$ 4.15	$ 0.25	$ 0.62
Sparks, NV	$ 4.39	$ 4.99	$ 3.95	$ 4.39	$ (-0.44)	$ (-0.60)

Not sure what world he’s been living in , in the past 30 years , in my world like you , early on diesel was cheaper than gas . I only go back to the 90’s with diesel . As time went on diesel increasingly got more expensive than gas . Yes , $.50-1.00 more here in Utah , and many of the western states where I traveled.

 

[Tulecreeper]

I’m certainty not up to date on what a gasser would do coming off a steep grade , with a 15k fifth wheel pushing you , but I do know what an older powerstroke without EB would do , and it was white knuckle experience. Yup ,wouldn’t own a truck without EB for where I tow in the mountains here in the west .

I completely agree that for towing that much even on the rare occasion I would probably prefer a diesel, even though my real-world tow cap is 15k#. For the 8k-10k I tow fairly regularly my 6.4 with the 8-spd does a real good job.

 

[truck2014]

I never feel mine shift.

That must be some great slush box. . I think his point was hunting gears , rpm’s changing etc .

Many of us towing heavy with the 6.7 Cummins 6 speed auto will lock out 6. For me I tow in the mountain west , doesn’t take a lot of grade to down shift to 5 with a heavy fifth wheel, I dislike it hunting gears every time I hit a slight grade shifting down to 5 , back to 6 . I’ve towed enough in 6 to know , and yes it will hold 6 at times , but a bit of a head wind , and grade it’s hunting gears . I lock out 6 all the time towing now , only shifting I get is the steep grades , it shifts to 4 , but usually stays there until the top .

 

[CoveredWagon]

Long time 2001 Ram 2500 diesel owner, I've owned a towing company for 17 years, I now own a winery and need to tow heavy loads on my 25k gvw gooseneck trailer.

The 2001 has seen better days and we are looking at getting a new truck. Prices are steep so I want to make sure I get what is best for my needs.

We put about 8,000 miles a year on our truck. 5,000 of that comes during the grape harvest season where we are traveling 3-4 hours each way to pick up grapes and we make that trip 5 days a week for 6 weeks a year. We really work the truck during harvest. We have a dual wheel-dual axle trailer that is 25k gvw but weighs around 4500 lbs so our cargo capacity is around 20k. It is a gooseneck trailer and out load is in 4 ft square bins that pack and stack easily so we are able to pull maximum weight with very little tongue weight on the truck. (Yes, we know enough to have a safe amount of tongue weight. We definitely do not need the weight carrying capacity of a dually and have never felt like we overloaded the 2500 with too much weight. The truck needs to pull hard and that is it. The trailer has very hearty disk brakes on it so the truck isn't doing a lot of the stopping for us.

With the extra cost of the Cummins engine and diesel prices typically being higher than gas over the last few years, I am wondering if it makes economic sense to buy a diesel again?

What kind of empty and heavily loaded mileage are you guys getting in the new trucks both in diesel or gas? I don't mind if the gas rigs are a bit underpowered for climbing hills, I am willing to slow down a bit nd, like I have to do with the 2001, I am also willing to drive the shoulder in 4wd low for the real steep stuff.

I love the Cummins as well as the next guy but I am trying to make a solid business decision and keep pride an ego out of the equation.

Thoughts?

With my 2021 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi I get 15-18 MPG without a trailer. That's a combination of rural, 2 lane and dirt road driving. I have only pulled a trailer 1 time since I bought this truck last month. I got about 11 MPG. I am impressed with the unloaded MPG. My previous vehicle was a Silverado with 5.3L. I only averaged 13.9 MPG on my rural roads.

 

[392heminut]

Were I do most of mt driving, SW New Mexico and SE Arizona, we deal with a lot of wind. When It's calm, I knock down about 19 MPG with my 2022 3500 SRW with the 6.7. When I'm towing my 5th wheel which is about 15-16K I get around 9 MPG.

 

[slbenz600]

Going to agree with the guys above, get the diesel for your application. Sure, the Hemi will do it, no question, but it isn't going to like it, it's going to struggle to get this moving and pulling grades, where the CTD is going to just chug along doing what it's built to do.

I do think that you'd be better served stepping up to a 3500 - if only for the leaf springs. You're pulling a lot of weight, and since they switched the 2500 to coils, many guys are complaining that it doesn't seem to handle the weight as well as the older leaf spring 2500s - which is probably true, the 4-link style suspension under the newer 2500s does have more lateral 'give' to it, which is inherent to its design. Leaf springs are more rigid and fight things like sway quite a bit better.

The price difference isn't much between comparably-equipped 2500s and 3500s, maybe $1500-$2k, so if you can swing that little bit extra I think you'd be more comfortable pulling the load you're looking at.

I have had both diesel and know the 6.4L Hemi. Not sure where your getting your information from on the 6.4L Hemi my Hemi has an automatic that is a little slower at take off in the mountains but will take off without lagging or what ever you called it. I pull 18,000 lbs up an 8% grade with no problems the only difference is the diesel will get better mpg than the gas. If you want to compare data sheets theres only about 600 lpg hauling or towing.

 

[2Tallguy]

Long time 2001 Ram 2500 diesel owner, I've owned a towing company for 17 years, I now own a winery and need to tow heavy loads on my 25k gvw gooseneck trailer.

The 2001 has seen better days and we are looking at getting a new truck. Prices are steep so I want to make sure I get what is best for my needs.

We put about 8,000 miles a year on our truck. 5,000 of that comes during the grape harvest season where we are traveling 3-4 hours each way to pick up grapes and we make that trip 5 days a week for 6 weeks a year. We really work the truck during harvest. We have a dual wheel-dual axle trailer that is 25k gvw but weighs around 4500 lbs so our cargo capacity is around 20k. It is a gooseneck trailer and out load is in 4 ft square bins that pack and stack easily so we are able to pull maximum weight with very little tongue weight on the truck. (Yes, we know enough to have a safe amount of tongue weight. We definitely do not need the weight carrying capacity of a dually and have never felt like we overloaded the 2500 with too much weight. The truck needs to pull hard and that is it. The trailer has very hearty disk brakes on it so the truck isn't doing a lot of the stopping for us.

With the extra cost of the Cummins engine and diesel prices typically being higher than gas over the last few years, I am wondering if it makes economic sense to buy a diesel again?

What kind of empty and heavily loaded mileage are you guys getting in the new trucks both in diesel or gas? I don't mind if the gas rigs are a bit underpowered for climbing hills, I am willing to slow down a bit nd, like I have to do with the 2001, I am also willing to drive the shoulder in 4wd low for the real steep stuff.

I love the Cummins as well as the next guy but I am trying to make a solid business decision and keep pride an ego out of the equation.

Thoughts?

Definitely go diesel and get the Aisin transmission. They've supplied Toyota for ages. Doesn't have the smooth manners of the 68rfe but it'll last. Get a 3500 also.

 

[2003F350]

I have had both diesel and know the 6.4L Hemi. Not sure where your getting your information from on the 6.4L Hemi my Hemi has an automatic that is a little slower at take off in the mountains but will take off without lagging or what ever you called it. I pull 18,000 lbs up an 8% grade with no problems the only difference is the diesel will get better mpg than the gas. If you want to compare data sheets theres only about 600 lpg hauling or towing.

I have had (in order) a GMC 3500 dually with a 454, a GMC 2500 with a 350, an F250 with a 7.3 powerstroke, (2) different F350s (one dually, one not) with the 6.0 powerstroke, my old PowerWagon with the 6.4 Hemi (a 2500 with soft springs), and now this 6.7 CTD, a 2500 with the camper/plow/Snow Chief package. I am getting my information from first-hand experience.

Nowhere did I ever say the 6.4 wouldn't do it. I said that it WOULD do it but it wouldn't be happy about it - it'll be turning higher RPMs, taking off considerably slower, and getting far worse mileage. It's going to need to shift more to stay in its power band.

Plain and simple, more power is going to pull better. More suspension is going to control the load better. To date the best pulling truck I have had was my dually F350 with the 6.0 - it was stable, it had a decent amount of power (since it was built before the high torque wars), and even with our 42' toy hauler winds and passing trucks didn't push us around. The dually GMC didn't get pushed around but I had to wind that 454 out to pull heavy stuff.

My 6.4 Hemi did a good job pulling our travel trailer, no questions asked. It would drop a gear or two to pull a decent hill, and since it is an ultra light trailer (GVWR I think is 8k? maybe 8500, we never load it that heavy though) it got it up to speed pretty quickly all things considered. Then I got this new truck and hitched it up. First couple take-offs I had to remember that it WASN'T a 6.4, because in the same amount of time it took my 6.4 to get up to 55mph, I was already running 70 mph and still climbing. We got into some cross-winds that trip that would have made me feel like I needed to stop with the Power Wagon because of its soft springs, but with this new truck (still a 2500), I didn't even really feel it that much. I knew it was blowing but I didn't feel uncomfortable driving in it.

So yes, I'm getting my information from personal experience. I am, again, in no way saying the 6.4 won't do it - I hitched my Wagon up to a 44' park model travel trailer to move it about 10 miles and it did it (yes I know I was WAY overweight, no I didn't hit highway speeds, it was all back roads just to get it home). I'm saying the CTD will do a BETTER JOB, and since OP is looking for something that will be primarily (I'm guessing 75%+ of its life) hooked up to a trailer pulling a lot of weight, they're going to be MUCH more comfortable in a 3500 diesel.

 

[jejb]

I have had both diesel and know the 6.4L Hemi. Not sure where your getting your information from on the 6.4L Hemi my Hemi has an automatic that is a little slower at take off in the mountains but will take off without lagging or what ever you called it. I pull 18,000 lbs up an 8% grade with no problems the only difference is the diesel will get better mpg than the gas. If you want to compare data sheets theres only about 600 lpg hauling or towing.

That's not the only difference. The gas motor will be turning probably double the RPM's. I personally do not like driving a motor that hard, so a low revving diesel is, by far, my preference for pulling through hills/mountains. Torque is where it's at in those conditions.

 

[biodiesel]

Disagree. My 3500 Cummins sees 5K miles per year, mostly local. NEVER an issue with emmissions equipment. And the upfront cost, which is $9800, will be recouped on resale. Go to NADA, KBB, etc., compare two identical 4yr old trucks, one with diesel option, one without. The difference in resale is almost exactly what the diesel option costs upfront.

I also agree with Scotty. I have three EcoDiesels trucks (2015 Ram, 2020 Ram, and 2023 Jeep Gladiator). DEF is a non-issue in low mileage applications.

As mentioned above, the Cummins will hold its value. Plus, it will handle the loads better and be more enjoyable to drive.

 

[Units]

Come to Alabama. I actually paid $.30/gal less for diesel last week than my wife and son paid for premium gas.

Here in Mississippi, just paid .58 more a gallon than regular unleaded, Must be a gulf coast thing.

 

[Choupique]

and be more enjoyable to drive.

Until you get the ding, and speed reduced in 250 miles message when 500 miles in to your 2600 mile camping trip. That one single thing alone should discourage a lot of people from paying the exorbitant price for the diesel engine. Gas engines don't have that feature.

 

[truck2014]

Until you get the ding, and speed reduced in 250 miles message when 500 miles in to your 2600 mile camping trip. That one single thing alone should discourage a lot of people from paying the exorbitant price for the diesel engine. Gas engines don't have that feature.

Well , you haven’t sold many on this towing heavy with gas . You must of had all kinds of trouble with a diesel , or you’ve read to many forums . My 2014 is doing well , yup had some emissions issues early on , on warranty. Never ruined any trips , had the SCR recall that came to an end , let me see, that was 8 years ago .

I think I’ll stick to the diesel , paid for . I can afford ANYTHING that goes wrong , not losing a minute sleep about emission issues . When that gas engine is in the graveyard, that Cummins will just be hitting its stride.

 

[Choupique]

you haven’t sold many on this towing heavy with gas

Because lots of people are fine with spending $10k extra to go faster, and have owned 2 or 3 trucks at the most with a couple hundred thousand "mostly trouble free" miles between the lot of them.

Use whatever math you like to justify it to your wife. I'm telling you, best case financially is a wash. Worst case is a $20k engine replacement. You can replace an entire gas engine for what a fuel system failure on a diesel costs. That's a hell of a risk to take if you aren't towing real heavy real often.

 

[nlambert182]

Because lots of people are fine with spending $10k extra to go faster, and have owned 2 or 3 trucks at the most with a couple hundred thousand "mostly trouble free" miles between the lot of them.

Use whatever math you like to justify it to your wife. I'm telling you, best case financially is a wash. Worst case is a $20k engine replacement. You can replace an entire gas engine for what a fuel system failure on a diesel costs. That's a hell of a risk to take if you aren't towing real heavy real often.

If you're trying to base a decision solely off risk, you're better off staying at home and not driving at all. Don't fly, don't boat, don't swim. You're at a risk with everything you do. You have to determine what YOUR risk threshold is. It isn't the same for everyone. What you call a risk is little to no risk for me but for you it is.

 

[RickyJ108]

The diesel will work better for the 6 weeks a year (5,000 miles) that you really use it, but not using it to it's full potential could cause other issues as brought up in a previous comment emissions related problems. Sitting and not using the full potential of the diesel while paying for the fuel and filters may not be what your looking for. I would buy the truck I want size, engine, make that I will be happy with and think about renting a larger truck for the 6 weeks a year. If it costs $2,000.00 for a 6 week rental how many years will it take to cover the cost of purchasing and maintaining an owned truck, Just a thought.