Help! Need experienced 5th Wheel advice!!

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pastort55

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Help! Totally confused here... so I have a 2015 2500 6.4 with long bed and 4.10. My towing capacity is 15,650 with a payload of 2850.

I'm looking to go with a 14,000 5th wheel with a 2700 payload. I know I'm close ... but am I too close? I was planning on adding airbags to level out and upgrade my brakes.

Am I going to regret this or should I trade in? Getting top $ for trade in's lately .... but I really don't want to give up my Lifetime Warranty that I have on my 2500. We've done cross country 3x with a 10,000 TT (no issues) and plan to go again

Anyone towing these kind of numbers or have some helpful advice?

thanks!!
 

Billet Bee

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I had a 16 ram 2500 short bed and hauled our 13,5k fifth week without any issue, didn't really even squat hardly. That pl number isn't the end all be all of important things, if your close then your good. The most important numbers to not exceed are gvwr, gcwr, and gawr, never go over your axles capacities. Some folks will make a big deal out of pl but imho it's not worth stressing over if your a little over, just move some weight around.
I legally hauled a 17k fiver with my 16 model, it *** rated for 17,2k, it was easy over the pl rating and squatted but not obnoxiously. Your air bags will make all the differance
 
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pastort55

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That's SUPER HELPFUL, thanks!!

Just to be clear, your 16 2500 was a 6.4 Hemi ? I see you're sporting the 3500 HO 6.7 now .... Nice!!!
 

Billet Bee

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No it was the even heavier with less pl 6.7 Cummins. It was rated for 17,200 gvwr but the pl was super light, I think around 2300 or something similar.
Fyi the reason I wen't with the big dog is because were have a 48' th built with a gvwr of 26k
 

Moose2

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I will 2nd BilletB’s answer. Been there and done that. I too graduated to the top dog though.
 

Jughed

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Help! Totally confused here... so I have a 2015 2500 6.4 with long bed and 4.10. My towing capacity is 15,650 with a payload of 2850.

I'm looking to go with a 14,000 5th wheel with a 2700 payload. I know I'm close ... but am I too close? I was planning on adding airbags to level out and upgrade my brakes.

Am I going to regret this or should I trade in? Getting top $ for trade in's lately .... but I really don't want to give up my Lifetime Warranty that I have on my 2500. We've done cross country 3x with a 10,000 TT (no issues) and plan to go again

Anyone towing these kind of numbers or have some helpful advice?

thanks!!

2700 pound payload in the 5th wheel or 2700# pin weight?

And is that 14k the dry weight of the camper? You start adding anything to that camper and the pin weight can go up quickly. Add in the 5th wheel receiver and you are easily over 3k in the bed of the truck.

I have the same truck (2018 version) - and in a post a few days ago I put up the numbers from a CAT scale with an empty truck... about 900# of the listed payload was already used by options on the truck. Those payload numbers, best I can tell, are based on the base model truck with the smallest wheels/tires and least amount of options - possibly without fuel. My tradesman has larger tires, factory skid plates, running boards and some other options. Weight adds up quickly.

I researched a 13k+/- fifth wheel... and compared it to what I tow now - 33' 9-10k TT. I was thinking a 3500 Cummins would be the correct truck for the 5er. Possibly a dually.

10-11k+ was always my tipping point for going diesel.
 

Billet Bee

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Well here we go with the great debate.
A duelly is totally unnecessary for a 10k trailer. Most 2500s in the last 8 years are capable of 16-18k. A duelly may be wanted for an individuals comfort level but not needed. Even a srw 3500 is capable of the mid 20s if properly equipped. As I previously stated I towed a 13,5k fiver for years with a 16 model 2500 and that trailer was a joke for that truck, you couldn't even tell it was there. As I previously stated it's all a weight moving around thing. You need to remove all heavy items from the truck bed and minimize heavy items inn tge pass through storage area, this will get your pl rating close enough, which btw nobody legally enforces, the law or ins. As far as the hitch b is concerned yes that does eat up 250lbs of pl capacity, and if that number is really concerning for someone they can just change the pin too a goose box to gain there pl back. Each vehicle has it's own weight ratings based on everything that it was ordered with from the factory then add a couple hundred lbs for a person and some fuel, this is std procedure. Now anything you change or do to the vehicle after its been built will alter the posted capacities and those mods needs too be taken into account. The only thing that's monitored by dot or in worst case scenario a insurance agent, is the
Gvwr: only if your not hooked up to anything and are a single vehicle
Gcwr: if your hooked uo you a trailer & are a combo
Gawr: the axle ratings are the most important and most monitored number to obey, don't go over these capacities.
Some folks like to get all bent out of shape by a pl number but In my experience its an unmonitored number that you can work on to better but is not the end all be all of important numbers to be concerned with.
 

Jughed

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Well here we go with the great debate.
A duelly is totally unnecessary for a 10k trailer. Most 2500s in the last 8 years are capable of 16-18k. A duelly may be wanted for an individuals comfort level but not needed. Even a srw 3500 is capable of the mid 20s if properly equipped. As I previously stated I towed a 13,5k fiver for years with a 16 model 2500 and that trailer was a joke for that truck, you couldn't even tell it was there. As I previously stated it's all a weight moving around thing. You need to remove all heavy items from the truck bed and minimize heavy items inn tge pass through storage area, this will get your pl rating close enough, which btw nobody legally enforces, the law or ins. As far as the hitch b is concerned yes that does eat up 250lbs of pl capacity, and if that number is really concerning for someone they can just change the pin too a goose box to gain there pl back. Each vehicle has it's own weight ratings based on everything that it was ordered with from the factory then add a couple hundred lbs for a person and some fuel, this is std procedure. Now anything you change or do to the vehicle after its been built will alter the posted capacities and those mods needs too be taken into account. The only thing that's monitored by dot or in worst case scenario a insurance agent, is the
Gvwr: only if your not hooked up to anything and are a single vehicle
Gcwr: if your hooked uo you a trailer & are a combo
Gawr: the axle ratings are the most important and most monitored number to obey, don't go over these capacities.
Some folks like to get all bent out of shape by a pl number but In my experience its an unmonitored number that you can work on to better but is not the end all be all of important numbers to be concerned with.

I agree is a dually isn't required for 10k... I don't get bent out of shape - but I do consider the max numbers as max. Can the truck pull it - sure...

And my comment on weight - my truck actually weighs about 1k more than the published dry weight - which is what the cargo weight is based on. So if the pin weight put me at the max listed weight - I would be 1k over without passengers or gear.


My 6.4 knows the 33TT is back there. We tow long distances and the east coast "mountains". The truck is locked in 4th gear down the freeway and is often in 2nd @ 4000RMP up the long climbs. Add 4K and the extra wind resistance of a 5er, and consider going cross country (like the OP said) - including the rockies and high mountain passes where HP is down 30%+ on a NA gasser...

IMHO, and its just an opinion - that 14k 5er is 3500 cummins territory.
 

Billet Bee

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I agree is a dually isn't required for 10k... I don't get bent out of shape - but I do consider the max numbers as max. Can the truck pull it - sure...

And my comment on weight - my truck actually weighs about 1k more than the published dry weight - which is what the cargo weight is based on. So if the pin weight put me at the max listed weight - I would be 1k over without passengers or gear.


My 6.4 knows the 33TT is back there. We tow long distances and the east coast "mountains". The truck is locked in 4th gear down the freeway and is often in 2nd @ 4000RMP up the long climbs. Add 4K and the extra wind resistance of a 5er, and consider going cross country (like the OP said) - including the rockies and high mountain passes where HP is down 30%+ on a NA gasser...

IMHO, and its just an opinion - that 14k 5er is 3500 cummins territory.
We full time rv and have been n-s and e-w and allot of different elevation levels and terrain. Yes my 16 was a Cummins but it's truly hard for me to believe that the hemi sucks that bad that a 33' trailer going up some grades would be so noticeable. If I had a 2500 that handled a trailer like that then I'd be getting rid of the truck. As I stated the pl weight on the door tag was accurate when the vehicle was manufactured and as you stated that you had a bunch of changes and additions like tires, steps, fifth wheel hitch , etc etc which for you came to 1000lbs extra that *** not accounted for at the manufacturer, so yes that's just common sense that anyone minus those lbs from there posted capacity to get the actual capacity, that should be a given. Plus the manufacturers are supposed to build in a couple hundred lbs extra for a person and fuel, yes 2 normal size people and a full load of fuel would surpass there added couple hundred lb buffer
 

Jughed

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We full time rv and have been n-s and e-w and allot of different elevation levels and terrain. Yes my 16 was a Cummins but it's truly hard for me to believe that the hemi sucks that bad that a 33' trailer going up some grades would be so noticeable. If I had a 2500 that handled a trailer like that then I'd be getting rid of the truck. As I stated the pl weight on the door tag was accurate when the vehicle was manufactured and as you stated that you had a bunch of changes and additions like tires, steps, fifth wheel hitch , etc etc which for you came to 1000lbs extra that *** not accounted for at the manufacturer, so yes that's just common sense that anyone minus those lbs from there posted capacity to get the actual capacity, that should be a given. Plus the manufacturers are supposed to build in a couple hundred lbs extra for a person and fuel, yes 2 normal size people and a full load of fuel would surpass there added couple hundred lb buffer

So the 6.4, like any gas engine has its limits. I wouldn't say it sucks - but it has to work to pull heavier loads. And that = higher RPM's on climbs. The 6.4 makes power at 3600-4000+ RMP's. To get up grades, it needs to spin at those RPM's...

And my truck is bone stock from the manufacturer, only options are what comes with the standard package - in this case the snow chief package. So while the truck lists X amount on the payload chart from the manufacturer - these standard options come right off the top. That 1000#'s doesn't include any extras I've added, as I didn't add anything.

Ram lists my truck at 10k GVWR with a payload of 3590. GVWR-Base weight (6408#) is the formula. They include zero options in that base weight. My truck, stock from the dealer, with fuel was 7800+/-#. That leaves me with 2,200# of payload. Add the hitch, people... max pin weight is down in the 1700# range, using their numbers.

A 14k dry weight 5er will put the truck over its payload and towing max. 15,280 is the max towing for the truck. A 5er of that size will be more than that when loaded with gear and all of its options, which are not included in the base numbers.

i'm only saying this because these numbers - max numbers - listed by the truck makers are listed to sell trucks. I don't think the truck is going to explode going down the freeway, but when someone asks if they are near their max, they are most likely over the max. To get the true "max" from any truck - its typically a very low optioned base model truck, a work truck.
 

Billet Bee

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So the 6.4, like any gas engine has its limits. I wouldn't say it sucks - but it has to work to pull heavier loads. And that = higher RPM's on climbs. The 6.4 makes power at 3600-4000+ RMP's. To get up grades, it needs to spin at those RPM's...

And my truck is bone stock from the manufacturer, only options are what comes with the standard package - in this case the snow chief package. So while the truck lists X amount on the payload chart from the manufacturer - these standard options come right off the top. That 1000#'s doesn't include any extras I've added, as I didn't add anything.

Ram lists my truck at 10k GVWR with a payload of 3590. GVWR-Base weight (6408#) is the formula. They include zero options in that base weight. My truck, stock from the dealer, with fuel was 7800+/-#. That leaves me with 2,200# of payload. Add the hitch, people... max pin weight is down in the 1700# range, using their numbers.

A 14k dry weight 5er will put the truck over its payload and towing max. 15,280 is the max towing for the truck. A 5er of that size will be more than that when loaded with gear and all of its options, which are not included in the base numbers.

i'm only saying this because these numbers - max numbers - listed by the truck makers are listed to sell trucks. I don't think the truck is going to explode going down the freeway, but when someone asks if they are near their max, they are most likely over the max. To get the true "max" from any truck - its typically a very low optioned base model truck, a work truck.
I've owned 3 rams since 2010 and never had the Weight on the door sticker be off more than 120lbs based on how it was built from the factory, which doesn't include any additions or changes the dealership did or yourself. My current truck *** only 40lbs off. My dealer added a 2 nerf bar steps, a fifth wheel hitch, mud flaps and floor mats. That right there alone changes the number by around 400lbs, then I added a heavy tonnue cover, and tool box, all these things add up. My point is how it was from the factory was pretty right on for me, so that makes me lucky or you not I guess to have a for sticker 1000lbs off just from the factory alone and not including any additions that the dealership or you have done. Most folks worry about maintaining there max weights on gvwr, gcwr, and gawr, and yes some are concerned with the pl number but we all know that's the first number to pretty much always go over and if basing your load capacity is someone's end all be all number to focus on then that truck would be well under utilized to match it's capabilities
 
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pastort55

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2700 pound payload in the 5th wheel or 2700# pin weight?

And is that 14k the dry weight of the camper? You start adding anything to that camper and the pin weight can go up quickly. Add in the 5th wheel receiver and you are easily over 3k in the bed of the truck.

I have the same truck (2018 version) - and in a post a few days ago I put up the numbers from a CAT scale with an empty truck... about 900# of the listed payload was already used by options on the truck. Those payload numbers, best I can tell, are based on the base model truck with the smallest wheels/tires and least amount of options - possibly without fuel. My tradesman has larger tires, factory skid plates, running boards and some other options. Weight adds up quickly.

I researched a 13k+/- fifth wheel... and compared it to what I tow now - 33' 9-10k TT. I was thinking a 3500 Cummins would be the correct truck for the 5er. Possibly a dually.

10-11k+ was always my tipping point for going diesel.
Dry weight would be 14K and the pin weight would be 2875. My max capacity is 15450 and pin weight is 2850. I do plan on getting the factory installed air suspension system... I know it doesn't increase capacity, but am told will eliminate the sag.. thoughts?
 
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pastort55

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So the 6.4, like any gas engine has its limits. I wouldn't say it sucks - but it has to work to pull heavier loads. And that = higher RPM's on climbs. The 6.4 makes power at 3600-4000+ RMP's. To get up grades, it needs to spin at those RPM's...

And my truck is bone stock from the manufacturer, only options are what comes with the standard package - in this case the snow chief package. So while the truck lists X amount on the payload chart from the manufacturer - these standard options come right off the top. That 1000#'s doesn't include any extras I've added, as I didn't add anything.

Ram lists my truck at 10k GVWR with a payload of 3590. GVWR-Base weight (6408#) is the formula. They include zero options in that base weight. My truck, stock from the dealer, with fuel was 7800+/-#. That leaves me with 2,200# of payload. Add the hitch, people... max pin weight is down in the 1700# range, using their numbers.

A 14k dry weight 5er will put the truck over its payload and towing max. 15,280 is the max towing for the truck. A 5er of that size will be more than that when loaded with gear and all of its options, which are not included in the base numbers.

i'm only saying this because these numbers - max numbers - listed by the truck makers are listed to sell trucks. I don't think the truck is going to explode going down the freeway, but when someone asks if they are near their max, they are most likely over the max. To get the true "max" from any truck - its typically a very low optioned base model truck, a work truck.
Thanks, that's super helpful... I need to get my ram on a scale and get some real numbers ... my thinking is if my numbers are within range, it won't affect my lifetime warranty that I have on the truck in the event something happens
 

Billet Bee

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Dry weight would be 14K and the pin weight would be 2875. My max capacity is 15450 and pin weight is 2850. I do plan on getting the factory installed air suspension system... I know it doesn't increase capacity, but am told will eliminate the sag.. thoughts?
Perfect, let it roll. Move weight around to achieve a number that's best
 
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pastort55

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I've owned 3 rams since 2010 and never had the Weight on the door sticker be off more than 120lbs based on how it was built from the factory, which doesn't include any additions or changes the dealership did or yourself. My current truck *** only 40lbs off. My dealer added a 2 nerf bar steps, a fifth wheel hitch, mud flaps and floor mats. That right there alone changes the number by around 400lbs, then I added a heavy tonnue cover, and tool box, all these things add up. My point is how it was from the factory was pretty right on for me, so that makes me lucky or you not I guess to have a for sticker 1000lbs off just from the factory alone and not including any additions that the dealership or you have done. Most folks worry about maintaining there max weights on gvwr, gcwr, and gawr, and yes some are concerned with the pl number but we all know that's the first number to pretty much always go over and if basing your load capacity is someone's end all be all number to focus on then that truck would be well under utilized to match it's capabilities
That's really helpful, thanks for taking the time to chime in. appreciated!
 

Irishthreeper

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Loaded up you’re going to be way over PL and GCWR, and perhaps rear axle load. You definitely need to get to a scale, IMHO. There are several of us that posted CAT scale results last week under “Weigh In” , I believe all from 2500’s
 

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Jughead wrote " 6.4 knows the 33TT is back there. We tow long distances and the east coast "mountains". The truck is locked in 4th gear down the freeway and is often in 2nd @ 4000RMP up the long climbs. "..... I tow the Sierra Nevadas out west and he is correct as for the 2nd gear @4000 comment, although that just means the truck is doing what it is supposed to do when you figure at 4200 Rpms you are going up the mountains at 58 mph at peak torque. I don't worry about what gear as long as I am not losing speed on the hills. I tow around 58 to 62 on the flats too.
 

2003F350

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Dry weight would be 14K and the pin weight would be 2875. My max capacity is 15450 and pin weight is 2850. I do plan on getting the factory installed air suspension system... I know it doesn't increase capacity, but am told will eliminate the sag.. thoughts?
As someone who has been around RVs for almost 40 years, and pulling them for 25 years...This would be an uncomfortable pull. Doing it once or twice? Okay, I'm on board, you're close to your max and all but should be okay, especially if you're going to be pulling the trailer empty. It won't be a pleasant drive though, you WILL know it's back there, and any cross breeze or a semi passing you and you're likely going to have a lot of sway. Keep both hands on the wheel and take it easy, and probably bring some spare undies.

Having towed RVs that big and bigger, if you're going to be doing it a LOT, you're gonna want more truck. Once you add clothes, camping equipment, food, drinks, etc. etc. you WILL be over your GCWR, and probably way over your RAWR. Your pin weight won't be at the 2850, it's likely going to be up over 3000 lbs. I would presume that, if your dry weight is 14k, your gross weight is probably 16.5 or 17k. Can you still do it? Probably, yeah. But you're in territory that you really shouldn't be in, and it's not going to be comfortable. These guys who pull like this and claim 'I can't tell it's back there' aren't paying attention to what their equipment is telling them.

Case in point, I used to have a 42' Cyclone tri-axle toy hauler. Dry weight was around 14k, I want to say because it was a toy hauler gross weight was up around 20k (been a while since I had the camper). I could have hauled it with my CCSB F350, but for my own sanity deemed it better to pull it with a dually. Even that diesel knew that camper was back there, but I never felt uncomfortable pulling it because the truck was stable, even with all the equipment in our trailer putting us close to 16-17k.

If you really want a big camper but want to keep the weight down, several RV manufacturers offer 'LITE' series campers that get to the same size as this 14k empty camper but shave a good 2-3k off the weight while keeping many of the same amenities.
 
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