Help! New issue, and its really strange...

[gfmadden330]

Well, ill start off by saying, my prior issue will be resolved in just a few weeks, new T-Case coming in soon..

As for my new issue, it all started when I had some exhaust work done at a local small muffler shop, after they completed, I started it up, and took off, I didn't even make it a block and the battery light came on, and the volt meter dropped low. I turned around and parked it in front of their shop, shut it down, and got a tech to come out.

After getting them, I tried to start it, but it was a no go. Battery died, and they stated the alternator needed to be replaced, okay, cool, I had it replaced, as well as a new battery, just to be sure. Now it cranks, but no start, fuel pump won't prime, and no spark. I figured out how to bypass the fuel pump relay, and get that to run, but I still have no spark, on top of that, this icon is showing up(photo attatched), and I now have 3 or 4 codes related to the throttle position sensor..

I guess my question is, when they were welding, did they fry something? I'm now without a vehicle, and I cant afford a whole lot, thank god I got the service contract when I purchased it..

Any help will be much appreciated!! It is now parked about 70 miles from where I live, so I will have to actually work on it tomorrow, or get it towed to a shop..


Oh, it's a 2012 ram 1500, 5.7...

 

[diymirage]

What is "some exhaust work"?

I agree it makes sense they may have fried something while welding but did they even weld ?

And where on the truck did they do the work ?

It may not have been them...this is a decade old truck with 186K on it...it may just be its time

What does the service contract entail ?

And...what voids it ?

 

[gfmadden330]

The service contract is for any and all major components and electronics, they did welding on the exhaust. Without disconnecting the battery, and welded when the vehicle was running as well. Directly after they finished is when the alternator decided to go, and now not fuel or spark.

 

[diymirage]

Yeah, welding on a running vehicle seems like a bad idea, I wonder why they made that particular decision?


The exhaust runs from the engine all the way out the back

I would expect welding on the tips to be less dangerous then welding on the cat


There will be two issues here (apart from actually getting it fixed)

The first is getting the exhaust shop to admit fault

The second is getting the service contract to agree to fix it

 

[jws123]

If they welded on it without disconnecting the battery they 100% fried something check all of your fuses in the whole truck they are 100% at fault.

 

[gfmadden330]

I ran through all the fuses, none were blown, I can bypass the fuel pump relay, and get that to run, but I cant get it to spark. They refuse to admit fault. They say they have been welding on vehicles for 30 yrs, and never had an issue.. according to my service contract, they should fix it depending on what it is exactly, I have no cost diagnostic so hopefully it's nothing major. I am hoping it is something stupid and simple, but with my luck, which by the way sucks, it's gonna be something that completely wrecks me...

 

[Ken226]

The service contract is for any and all major components and electronics, they did welding on the exhaust. Without disconnecting the battery, and welded when the vehicle was running as well. Directly after they finished is when the alternator decided to go, and now not fuel or spark.

Check all of your ground straps and cables.

The exhaust is connected to the engine via the exhaust manifolds, and is fairly well isolated from everything else with vibration absorbing rubber mounts.

If they attached the ground lead to the frame, or something other than the exhaust, then started welding the exhaust, the current could have passed through a ground cable that connects the body/frame to the engine or heads somewhere, then back through the manifolds down to close the circuit to the welding electrode. This may possibly have melted a ground cable somewhere between the frame/body and engine.

Ideally, they should have disconnected the battery and attached the ground to whatever part they were welding, as close as possible to the weld location, but there seems to be a competency crisis these days.

Did they weld any exhaust hangers? Or only the exhaust pipes? Because welding the hangers while the ground is on the exhaust pipes would be about the same as doing the opposite.

 

[Ken226]

This is the mopar factory ground strap between the exhaust hanger and muffler. See anything like this under there?

 

[gfmadden330]

I dont see any ground strap, it doesn't have factory mufflers, or even factory exhaust, it was modified many years before I ended up buying the truck. I guess I'm wondering what system would prevent spark and not let the fuel system even prime. Or is that part of the fuze box, which from what I read, is known to have issues, or could it be that something got fried, and fried other systems in the process? Because it cranks good, just no spark or fuel.

 

[Ken226]

I dont see any ground strap, it doesn't have factory mufflers, or even factory exhaust, it was modified many years before I ended up buying the truck. I guess I'm wondering what system would prevent spark and not let the fuel system even prime. Or is that part of the fuze box, which from what I read, is known to have issues, or could it be that something got fried, and fried other systems in the process? Because it cranks good, just no spark or fuel.

The ground strap missing means that IF they connected the ground to frame, then welded the exaust (or the opposite), ALL of the current had to make the circuit from frame to exhaust somewhere else.



Alot of systems share common grounds and common power feeds.

If you have a scan tool, do a health report. It will (should) show you if it can't communicate with any specific modules, then you can look at a wiring diagram for the grounds or power feeds that the non communicating modules share. That will give you a clue at where to start looking.

If you don't have a scan tool, then just go down the list with AlfaOBD and connect then disconnect to each module/computer. See what you can communicate with and what is offline.

A code scan may give you alot of lost communication codes, which can give clues.

 

[gfmadden330]

When I did run a scanner, the issues that did come up were about the throttle position sensor having either high or low voltage, other than that, everything was fine..

 

[Ken226]

When I did run a scanner..

When you say scanner, what tool are you talking about? Alot folks say scanner but are talking about an OBD code reader.

A code reader will only pull OBD2 codes. It needs to be a scan tool capable of connecting to all of the modules and pull the manufacturer specific codes, as well as be able to tell exactly which modules are supposed to be there, but aren't communicating.

AlfaOBD can kinda do it, but you'll have to try connecting to each module individually, one at a time, to see which ones are down. A bi-directional scan tool is pretty close to being a necessity for this kind of work.

 

[gfmadden330]

I only have access to a generic scan tool, basic codes, and I believe that's it, I don't know anyone who had alfaOBD, or anything like that, and I haven't ordered my adapter for my laptop yet, I was planning on ordering it in the next few weeks.

 

[Ken226]

I only have access to a generic scan tool, basic codes, and I believe that's it, I don't know anyone who had alfaOBD, or anything like that, and I haven't ordered my adapter for my laptop yet, I was planning on ordering it in the next few weeks.

I'm with JWS123, up in post#5. This isn't a coincidence.

Maybe this shop should be fixing this issue.

 

[jws123]

I only have access to a generic scan tool, basic codes, and I believe that's it, I don't know anyone who had alfaOBD, or anything like that, and I haven't ordered my adapter for my laptop yet, I was planning on ordering it in the next few weeks.

This is the only time im going to recommend this Have it towed to a dealer get them to Diag it and send the results to the other shop.

 

[gfmadden330]

Well, after another couple of hours tinkering with it today, I is being towed to the local dealer, ive spoken to a couple of techs and they all say the same thing, that being g that the chance is pretty high that when they had it running, and decided to weld on it, that it may have over volted something, or shorted something out.

My service contract will cover most, if not all of the work, including the diag. I was informed that even if my service contract covers the work, that I should go back to the other shop with the results of the diag, and if it is deemed that they did cause the damage, to try to get them to assist in covering it, or compensate me for the lost time..

 

[Ram1958]

Throttle position issue could cause No signal to fuel pump and ignition.

 

[gfmadden330]

Well after finally getting ahold of the dealer I had the truck towed to, they stated they can't even look at it until the end of May, begining of June, I need my truck sooner than that. Any ideas on if the Throttle body/position sensor would cause the no fuel pump/no spark issue? I'm willing to tinker a bi more if I need to, I just cant go that long without my truck.

 

[diymirage]

Well after finally getting ahold of the dealer I had the truck towed to, they stated they can't even look at it until the end of May, begining of June, I need my truck sooner than that. Any ideas on if the Throttle body/position sensor would cause the no fuel pump/no spark issue? I'm willing to tinker a bi more if I need to, I just cant go that long without my truck.

i would have a sit down meeting with the manager and see what that can do to get you in a loaner

 

[gfmadden330]

Well, the shop that this happened at, is not taking responsibility, and the dealer that I had it towed to offered my a loaner, but my service contract doesnt pay for it so I'd be out like 75$ a day, something I can't really afford... they did offer to take my truck in on trade on a new bighorn, but I dont want a 700+ payment. And I'd take a massive hit on the trade in value because of it not currently running.

but it is tempting, I really do like the look of the new rams.