New Cummins HO vs Non-HO spec

[Walter Conrad]

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That's not quite what you said. Here's what you said:

"The other thing you will be dealing with is the rough and very annoying shift strategies built into the
Aisan tranny when unloaded.'

And, "It's the Aisan trans that is the PITA not the suspension. when running empty it's the upshift of the trans that wants to rip your head off."

I interpret what you said as being issues. Issues that I have not experienced, empty or loaded.

And, I notice Joseph Crawford (post 14) also disagrees with your comments.

I don't mean to start an argument but you accused me of misreading your posts.

yes you did misinterpret my post. No where did I say the asian trans had issues, I said I has a rough and annyoing shift strategy that is my opinion, if you want to make it an issue , be my guest. I am not the only one on this forum that thinks the same. That is the way it was manufactured, If you like it fine, I don't! The OP was asking for opinions.
You also need to stop taking things out of context to suit you narrative.

 

[John Jensen]

yes you did misinterpret my post. No where did I say the asian trans had issues, I said I has a rough and annyoing shift strategy that is my opinion, if you want to make it an issue , be my guest. I am not the only one on this forum that thinks the same. That is the way it was manufactured, If you like it fine, I don't! The OP was asking for opinions.
You also need to stop taking things out of context to suit you narrative.

Not making anything an issue, just trying to keep the facts straight.
And, I didn't take anything out of context, I read and quoted your exact sentences.

Enough. You are correct, the OP was asking for opinions. And I answered the OP that I have not experienced any of the Aisin characteristics you mentioned. My post was not an opinion, it is fact.

I'm done as none of this is important. Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy, Prosperous New Year

Cheers!

 

[dodgeramfan]

Thank you!!
GVW as you are looking at it ready to go is 15680, the pin weight is 3460, 12220 on the axles. This trailer is well balanced with the heavy appliances over the axles. Residential refrigerator on the street side, washer & dryer on the curb side. The axles are well placed on the trailer to give an average 22% weight shift to the pin (3460)and minimal tail swing. It also has a unique feature of the entry door being in the curb side slide. Unfortunately KZ no longer manufacturers this model (G384RLT), it's replacement (G383RLQ) however is even better IMHO.
As far as drivability when loaded onto the truck, the truck has the standard dually suspension plus dr3500ca timbrens on the rear. While I have not measured the squat it is minimal, the secondary leaf springs do not engage but the timbrens do. The ride is smooth and comfortable more so that my 2013 3500 SRW, and I notice zero interference from cross winds or pushing from passing semi's, buses or class A motor homes. but to be honest I really didn't notice anything with my 3500 SRW. Head and tail winds are another story.
The truck has the puck system and the hitch I use is a 21k Demco Premier with puck adapter and the trailer king pin is a 21k TrailAir Air Ride running 95psi air pressure.

Hope this helps

View attachment 231396 View attachment 231397 View attachment 231398

You’re very welcome and yes that information is very informative. My pin weight is only 1910 unloaded. Coming from a 3500 SRW 6.4 liter I was just curious on how a DRW will handle overall. And if I can get your fuel mileage while towing I will be content . Thanks again for the info.


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[Walter Conrad]

You’re very welcome and yes that information is very informative. My pin weight is only 1910 unloaded. Coming from a 3500 SRW 6.4 liter I was just curious on how a DRW will handle overall. And if I can get your fuel mileage while towing I will be content . Thanks again for the info.


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Fuel mileage depends on where you are and what conditions you are facing.
I live in NE Ohio and spend a good bit of time in mid central Florida. My empty truck (no trailer or payload) fuel mileage averages between 18 to 19.5
When towing from Ohio to Florida I will average for the trip a solid 12 but going through the mountains of WVA where I encounter 2, 6 mile, 6% grades
the fuel mileage will drop to about 4-5. 15-20mph head winds going across the plane states about 7-8.
My DEF usage seems to be holding right around 400mpg.

 

[Rick Ram-jet]

WC, I appreciate the data you have provided, I always try and do my due diligence, especially when making big purchases, this helps a lot!

So far I`m leaning towards the HO Aisin combo....

My way of thinking is better to have the extra capacity (you never know what the future holds) that way I`m set to handle heavier loads if they arise down the road!

 

[Walter Conrad]

WC, I appreciate the data you have provided, I always try and do my due diligence, especially when making big purchases, this helps a lot!

So far I`m leaning towards the HO Aisin combo....

My way of thinking is better to have the extra capacity (you never know what the future holds) that way I`m set to handle heavier loads if they arise down the road!

Not really and here is why,

Unfortunately with the HO/Aisin you will loose valuable cargo carrying capacity depending on how you option it out will dictate exactly what that loss will be, but figure at least 300lbs.. The trucks GVW will always be 14000lbs but because of the added drivetrain weight you loose cargo capacity. As I stated before both will work and optioned the same the difference in overall performance will be negligible. With todays crop of popular brands of toy haulers, I doubt you will exceed the specs of a 3500 CC LB DRW SO 4.10 axle, but there is a good chance you will exceed the GVW of an HO and not come close to it's GCWR..
example, 3500 CC LB DRW HO Tradesman cargo capacity according to Ram is approx. 5580. same truck but SO 5890
19000lb gross 5th wheel @ 25% pin weight is approx 4800+ 200hitch+280 full tank of fuel+ 200 driver=5480 and is only 100lbs away from the cargo capacity of the truck and that is without any other accessories being added to the truck or passengers or you little dog Spot.
this is just one possible scenario
Let me close by saying this, no matter which drive train you choose HO or SO you will run out of truck before you run out of drivetrain, sooner on the HO when coupled to a 5th wheel recreational trailer with it's preferred 22-25% weight bias. If you really want to take advantage of all the Aisin has to offer i would suggest stepping up to a 4500/5500. By the time you are ready to order your new truck the new ZF 8 speed or Allison 9 speed will probably be available and the Aisin and 68rfe gone and these conversations will be moot. Right now all manufacturers suffer the same problem whether it be Ford, GM, or Ram. The drivetrains are more capable than the trucks they are put into.
Choose wisely my friend.

MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY TRUCK HUNTING

 

[stevenP]

I have both the HO (3500) and the non HO version(2500). I cant tell them apart as far as power is concerned. The HO version does have the aisin tranny, which so far is a delight. I dont really notice the harsh shifts others here mentioned. My 3500 is equipped with 3.73 gears. I pull a 15K fifth wheel RV with mine.

 

[mtofell]

but figure at least 500lbs..

According to the published charts, the difference in payload on trucks with 68rfe v. Aisin is 250#

 

[Walter Conrad]

According to the published charts, the difference in payload on trucks with 68rfe v. Aisin is 250#

I looked at the chart that I have again and what I thought was 5380 was actually 5580. So as it is 5580 v 5890 or a 310 difference. still a lower cargo capacity on the HO.
So i stand corrected on my initial statement of a 500lb difference. According to the published chart I have it is 310. The published charts are only a guide, the weight placard on the vehicle is the actual weight and will most likely be substantially different than what is published. When I purchased mine I also looked at another Bighorn with the HO/Aisin, and max tow package, all other options were the same and there was almost 700lb difference in available cargo capacity (some of which is the included 5th wheel hitch). Even when you go to the towing section and punch in a vin # it is not correct, close but not correct. When i punch in my vin it tells me 5770 but my placard on the B pillar says 5680.
The point is either the HO or SO will work fine for the OP. Just trying to get out as much good info as possible (yes we all make mistakes and I will admit mine when I wrong) so the OP can make a good informed decision for his needs. I really don't care what he buys as long as he is satisfied with his choice.

p.s. I have adjusted my previous comment to reflect my mistake

 

[rwhjr]

I looked at the chart that I have again and what I thought was 5380 was actually 5580. So as it is 5580 v 5890 or a 310 difference. still a lower cargo capacity on the HO.
So i stand corrected on my initial statement of a 500lb difference. According to the published chart I have it is 310. The published charts are only a guide, the weight placard on the vehicle is the actual weight and will most likely be substantially different than what is published. When I purchased mine I also looked at another Bighorn with the HO/Aisin, and max tow package, all other options were the same and there was almost 700lb difference in available cargo capacity (some of which is the included 5th wheel hitch). Even when you go to the towing section and punch in a vin # it is not correct, close but not correct. When i punch in my vin it tells me 5770 but my placard on the B pillar says 5680.
The point is either the HO or SO will work fine for the OP. Just trying to get out as much good info as possible (yes we all make mistakes and I will admit mine when I wrong) so the OP can make a good informed decision for his needs. I really don't care what he buys as long as he is satisfied with his choice.

p.s. I have adjusted my previous comment to reflect my mistake

So guys with the HO Cummins/Aisin have contradicted your opinion on the harshness with their actual real world experience.

Along with overstating the “neck-breaking” shifts of the Aisin you also overstated the payload difference.
Yes losing 300lbs payload isn’t desired but it’s not the end of the world for most guys either.

We get it that you prefer the SO combo better but let’s keep to facts and actua experience with the trucks so people make informed decisions.

 

[Walter Conrad]

So guys with the HO Cummins/Aisin have contradicted your opinion on the harshness with their actual real world experience.

Along with overstating the “neck-breaking” shifts of the Aisin you also overstated the payload difference.
Yes losing 300lbs payload isn’t desired but it’s not the end of the world for most guys either.

We get it that you prefer the SO combo better but let’s keep to facts and actua experience with the trucks so people make informed decisions.

There are p!enty of others on this forum that have the same opinion of the harsh shift of the Aisin transmission just as there are those who don't. If you bothered to read all of my posts on this subject you would have seen that it doesn't mater to me what the OP purchases. The OP was asking for thoughts and opinions which I was willing to give and when I made a factual error I corrected it, while you have added nothing to this post except your condescending remarks which in no way helps the OP.

 

[18CrewDually]

There's a reason the H.O. only comes with Aisin trans. It's a medium commercial duty (real world truck) transmission that can handle the extra power / torque of the H.O. while towing heavy loads; and acts (shifts) as you'd expect for a commercial truck. I personally have no complaints with mine and glad I chose what I did, but I do tow and want it to last.
I was never a fan of gushy butter smooth shifts in a truck that tows. All of that just equals to excessive slipping and premature wear.

 

[Scooterpilot]

I have a 2021 3500 HO ordered and it's now built. ETA mid Jan 2021. Torque is now 1075 and there has been additional tuning to the AISIN. I haven't talked to anyone yet, however, the AISIN is said to be smoother than previous years. I'm not saying previous years the shifting was rough, just that the 2021 is improved. Also, the towing capacity is increased with the higher torque. Presently, I have my 2012 2500 Cummins and if this new truck is half as good as my 2012 has been to me, I'll be very, very happy.

 

[JNelson]

Towed oil field hot shot from 2000 to 2011. Loads from no trailer to 38,000 gross. My 2010 I had did an awesome job with a mild tuner. No complaints at all. Waiting delivery on a 22 2500. Bought a 6.4 6 months ago and like it but once you go diesel it’s hard to leave it.