No Crank. Never ending 2011 5.7L RAM issues

[dchapma1957]

Had something similar on a 2011 1500 a few years back. Started stalled, started stalled and then went no crank/no start. Random dash warnings for service trailer brake system, service 4WD system and a CEL for P0882. Also had no PRNDL on the dash.

Starter would crank when jumped at the fuse and the ASD relay in the TIPM would go crazy clicking on/off. Did find connector 1 on the PCM was wet and ultimately was the problem. Ironically, just a few weeks before while under the hood for a unrelated issue, I noticed how water would drip off the windshield cowling and onto an AC line and run towards the firewall and would drop perfectly onto that connector. I had installed a zip tie onto that AC line to act as a drip loop before the connector but guess it was too late.

$1000 later for the computer and a couple hundred for a new connector to be spliced on the that main harness.

Speaking of the TIPM, did u pull and check the Auto shut down relay? I forgot it's location exactly but it's the same as all the other relays.

Thanks,

Yes, I pulled the TIPM, visually inspected all the wires and connectors, cleaned all the contacts with DeOxit 5 and reseated everything. The ASD relay checks out fine. The Box and wires were dry.

The shop is installing a new computer today - I should hear something later in the day.

 

[dchapma1957]

Shop just called me. They basically said they tried everything they can think of and it is still Immobilized with the red flashing light.
They tried a new computer.
They had a locksmith come and try to program a new Key. Interesting that he said it would not take the program, when I programmed a new key using AlphaOBD.

I tried a new WIN node before taking it to them.

Nobody has tried a TIPM yet. And from what I see a lot of the CAN bus does go to/through the TIPM. I am going to order a TIPM and have it towed back home. I refuse to take it to the over priced dealer who will wast a lot of time and money redoing everything that has already beed tried.

I am also going to ring out all the can bus wires to and from the PCM. This has to be a connection issue!

I grabbed a 1 month subscription to AllData, I have AlphaOBD and now I am determined to get this fixed!

I spent my 40+ year career servicing complex industrial equipment for Eastman Kodak, and HP, time to get off my ass.

 

[Ken226]

Shop just called me. They basically said they tried everything they can think of and it is still Immobilized with the red flashing light.
They tried a new computer.
They had a locksmith come and try to program a new Key. Interesting that he said it would not take the program, when I programmed a new key using AlphaOBD.

I tried a new WIN node before taking it to them.

Nobody has tried a TIPM yet. And from what I see a lot of the CAN bus does go to/through the TIPM. I am going to order a TIPM and have it towed back home. I refuse to take it to the over priced dealer who will wast a lot of time and money redoing everything that has already beed tried.

I am also going to ring out all the can bus wires to and from the PCM. This has to be a connection issue!

I grabbed a 1 month subscription to AllData, I have AlphaOBD and now I am determined to get this fixed!

I spent my 40+ year career servicing complex industrial equipment for Eastman Kodak, and HP, time to get off my ass.

So, when you have your scanner/alpha OBD connected, is it able to communicate with all of the modules in the CAN?

 

[dchapma1957]

No, ABS communication is down.

I successfully retrieved the PIN from the PCM, verified the VIN, did all kinds of diagnostics but the ABS is offline.

Looking at the CAN bus diagrams, the link to the ABS runs through the TIPM. That is where I am going to concentrate on first ringing out the CAN bus wires one by one, connector to connector.

 

[Ken226]

No, ABS communication is down.

I successfully retrieved the PIN from the PCM, verified the VIN, did all kinds of diagnostics but the ABS is offline.

Looking at the CAN bus diagrams, the link to the ABS runs through the TIPM. That is where I am going to concentrate on first ringing out the CAN bus wires one by one, connector to connector.

Sounds like a good place to start.

With all of the work involved in a cam swap, and In your specific case, twice, with lifting heads in and out, it's easy to damage something.

Something as small as a wire pulled loose from a crimped on pin, inside a connector, can cause huge problems.

That's why I'm nice to the neighborhood stray cats. I've paid dearly before due to one tiny little mouse chewing wires.

 

[dchapma1957]

Sounds like a good place to start.

With all of the work involved in a cam swap, and In your specific case, twice, with lifting heads in and out, it's easy to damage something.

Something as small as a wire pulled loose from a crimped on pin, inside a connector, can cause huge problems.

That's why I'm nice to the neighborhood stray cats. I've paid dearly before due to one tiny little mouse chewing wires.

It would also account for why it worked for a few days then quit entirely. Conection was intermittent then failed completely.

I had an engineer on my staff a few years ago before who always used to say, "connections, connections, connections", and you know what? He was right more times than not.

I also want to validate the Run relay and make sure that switched power is being applied to the PCM properly.

I bought a one month subscription to Alldata and there is great infor available there along with detailed wiring diagrams, theory of operation, etc. I'll keep the group updated as this information may save someone some pain in the future.

 

[Ken226]

It probably wouldn't hurt to look at the live data from those aftermarket sensors also, compare the values to what should be there.

 

[dchapma1957]

It probably wouldn't hurt to look at the live data from those aftermarket sensors also, compare the values to what should be there.

I have no aftermarket sensors. I do have Dorman MDS solenoids and a Melling VVT solenoid but I fail to see how that would prevent the engine from cranking and putting it into immobilization mode.

One thing I can do is disconnect the harness leading to those solenoids under the intake manifold. If there is a short in that harness or one of the solenoids removing it from the main harness should create different symptoms. It branches off the main harness running behind the engine.

I won't get the truck home until tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Ken226]

I do have Dorman MDS solenoids and a Melling VVT solenoid but I fail to see how that would prevent the engine from cranking and putting it into immobilization mode.

Maybe you are right, but for the sake of factoring out variables.


I get that you dont see how they could be the problem, but that doesn't mean they can't be the problem.

A solenoid that is shorted to ground, or battery voltage shorted to a reference wire, or a power feed shorted to ground pulling down voltage on a circuit shared with another system, etc. can cause trouble with the computer that decides whether it cranks or not.

So, they might not keep it from cranking, but a domino effect is also possible. It's how it goes with interconnected systems of networked computers.


I'm not saying your wrong, but i AM saying that the process of eliminating variables, requires the elimination of variables.

If a variable was introduced near-about the time the problem occurred, it might be worth paying attention to, even if you fail to see how it could be the issue.

I remember there being an aftermarket coil too. Probably also not the issue, but another variable worth eliminating. Perhaps you have a buddy with a Hemi, that maybe would let you temporarily borrow a coil. Just for the sake of eliminating another variables that was introduced around the time of the problem began.

Just for the sake of certainty.

Be open to the possibility that it's something you don't expect.

 

[Ken226]

I have no aftermarket sensors. I do have Dorman MDS solenoids and a Melling VVT solenoid but I fail to see how that would prevent the engine from cranking and putting it into immobilization mode.

One thing I can do is disconnect the harness leading to those solenoids under the intake manifold. If there is a short in that harness or one of the solenoids removing it from the main harness should create different symptoms. It branches off the main harness running behind the engine.

I won't get the truck home until tomorrow afternoon.

If you'll skip to post# 11 in the thread linked below, here is a real world example of what I'm talking about.

While his diagnosis method isn't what I'd have done, it did in fact work.

https://www.ramforumz.com/threads/u1197-u0100-no-crank-no-start-anybody-have-fix.279340/

Again, it might not be your issue, but it is a case of an aftermarket solenoid causing similar problems.

Those u-codes are from the RF hub. I doubt that they have anything to do with your key or win. They probably are just the rf hub reporting that it didn't receive the keys security data from the ecm, which would make sense if the ecm is dead due to a short/blown fuse/melted wire/bad ground, etc.

To verify communication with the ecm using Alpha, try connecting to the engine computer.

 

[dchapma1957]

Maybe you are right, but for the sake of factoring out variables.


I get that you dont see how they could be the problem, but that doesn't mean they can't be the problem.

A solenoid that is shorted to ground, or battery voltage shorted to a reference wire, or a power feed shorted to ground pulling down voltage on a circuit shared with another system, etc. can cause trouble with the computer that decides whether it cranks or not.

So, they might not keep it from cranking, but a domino effect is also possible. It's how it goes with interconnected systems of networked computers.


I'm not saying your wrong, but i AM saying that the process of eliminating variables, requires the elimination of variables.

If a variable was introduced near-about the time the problem occurred, it might be worth paying attention to, even if you fail to see how it could be the issue.

I remember there being an aftermarket coil too. Probably also not the issue, but another variable worth eliminating. Perhaps you have a buddy with a Hemi, that maybe would let you temporarily borrow a coil. Just for the sake of eliminating another variables that was introduced around the time of the problem began.

Just for the sake of certainty.

Be open to the possibility that it's something you don't expect.

Very true.

I can certainly unplug coils and that harness. If one of those devices is dragging the system down it should at least then crank. I can then plug back in one at a time until it won't crank. Simple enough to do.

 

[dchapma1957]

If you'll skip to post# 11 in the thread linked below, here is a real world example of what I'm talking about.

While his diagnosis method isn't what I'd have done, it did in fact work.

https://www.ramforumz.com/threads/u1197-u0100-no-crank-no-start-anybody-have-fix.279340/

Again, it might not be your issue, but it is a case of an aftermarket solenoid causing similar problems.

Those u-codes are from the RF hub. I doubt that they have anything to do with your key or win. They probably are just the rf hub reporting that it didn't receive the keys security data from the ecm, which would make sense if the ecm is dead due to a short/blown fuse/melted wire/bad ground, etc.

To verify communication with the ecm using Alpha, try connecting to the engine computer.

Very interesting and gives me some things to think about. I won't have the truck back until tomorrow afternoon and will have limited time this week to work on it but I'll keep the group here posted.

 

[Ken226]

I skimmed through the last three pages and didn't see a mention of the fuses. Remember to double check them too if you have already.

 

[dchapma1957]

I skimmed through the last three pages and didn't see a mention of the fuses. Remember to double check them too if you have already.

One of the last things I did before having it towed was confirm +12 volts at the PCM and the 5 volt outputs to the sensors but That is actually one of the first things I am going to do. I WISH It would blow a fuse then I could trace it down a bit quicker.

 

[Barr2255]

I skimmed through the last three pages and didn't see a mention of the fuses. Remember to double check them too if you have already.

Man, Ken your a wealth of knowledge! Glad your on this forum. Seriously.

 

[Ken226]

Man, Ken your a wealth of knowledge! Glad your on this forum. Seriously.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

 

[dchapma1957]

Still no crank:
Put the battery on a charger for good measure.
Fuses all checked good.
Verified Run/Start relay, ASD relay all good.
Verified again +12 volts at PCM.
Verified 5 Volts to sensors all good.
Verified with Ohm Meter CAN BUS data lines from PCM to TIPM - all good.
Triple checked all grounds - again.
Reseated connector C130 and oll of the TPM. I did not observe any lose wires, backed out wires or corrosion.
Unplugged all the coils.

That CAN bus runs through the TIPM to other devices. There is a lot going on in there. I have a rebuilt unit coming on Thursday. will provide another update then.

 

[EdGs]

Holy crap, what a mess! I know you will get it sorted.

 

[Ken226]

Still no crank:
Put the battery on a charger for good measure.
Fuses all checked good.
Verified Run/Start relay, ASD relay all good.
Verified again +12 volts at PCM.
Verified 5 Volts to sensors all good.
Verified with Ohm Meter CAN BUS data lines from PCM to TIPM - all good.
Triple checked all grounds - again.
Reseated connector C130 and oll of the TPM. I did not observe any lose wires, backed out wires or corrosion.
Unplugged all the coils.

That CAN bus runs through the TIPM to other devices. There is a lot going on in there. I have a rebuilt unit coming on Thursday. will provide another update then.

So, was able to connect to the engine computer with AlphaOBD?

 

[dchapma1957]

So, was able to connect to the engine computer with AlphaOBD?

Yes, I can connect to Engine computer with Alpha.
I can connect to Body Computer with alpha and do all kinds of stuff.
I can connect to the RF Hub and I even programmed a key that will lock/Unlock the doors.
I can retrieve the 4 digit PIN.
I can poll the computer and get all kinds of information on the truck including the VIN.

I cannot connect to the ABS - not sure if this is normal or not.