Oil Catch Can ?

[PaleFlyer]

Thinking about installing an oil catch pan ? My Ram is 2015 with 141,000 original miles and have never seen oil seepage anywhere ? Dose it happen to the HEMI's latter on ? I have always used synthetic Amzoil that at 6,000 miles is as clean as new.
Could someone tell me what I need to do so it wouldn't start leaking oil ?

The PCV link routes some air back from the exhaust side into the intake again (From my understanding), and the Hemi, like a lot of modern engines has a little too much "slop" to make machining cheaper between the pistons and the walls, which allows a small amount of oil/unit time to "blow by", and come out the exhaust side. My 89k '18 gets about a half cup in the can ~4k miles. My thinking is, $150 to keep the **** out of the intake, means less other **** will get caught by the sticky oil, and slow/block the intake ports. So cleaner combustion, and more power, as well as just keeping the engine in a little better shape longer.

It isn't something you will "see". If you are SEEING the oil seeping out, the issue is NOT fixed by the catch can. It's a much bigger issue.

 

[crazy jerry]

The PCV link routes some air back from the exhaust side into the intake again (From my understanding), and the Hemi, like a lot of modern engines has a little too much "slop" to make machining cheaper between the pistons and the walls, which allows a small amount of oil/unit time to "blow by", and come out the exhaust side. My 89k '18 gets about a half cup in the can ~4k miles. My thinking is, $150 to keep the **** out of the intake, means less other **** will get caught by the sticky oil, and slow/block the intake ports. So cleaner combustion, and more power, as well as just keeping the engine in a little better shape longer.

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hate to tell you this but pcv is a simple vent. the crankcase makes heat , pressure ,oil vapor etc. its routed back to the intake because you cant just dump it onto the ground. every engine has one.
the good news is , if your engine isnt a roached out POS , the little bit of oil going into the intake doesnt hurt a darn thing.
simple math will tell you the amount of oil your catching is only mere drops going into the cylinder every x miles.
and even better news , port injected engines spray the intake valves at all times so even at 100k they still look new.
unfortunatly youve bought into tbe timeless snake oil (catch can) scam

 

[PaleFlyer]

hate to tell you this but pcv is a simple vent. the crankcase makes heat , pressure ,oil vapor etc. its routed back to the intake because you cant just dump it onto the ground. every engine has one.
the good news is , if your engine isnt a roached out POS , the little bit of oil going into the intake doesnt hurt a darn thing.
simple math will tell you the amount of oil your catching is only mere drops going into the cylinder every x miles.
and even better news , port injected engines spray the intake valves at all times so even at 100k they still look new.
unfortunatly youve bought into tbe timeless snake oil (catch can) scam

Except the 5.7L 4th gen Hemi is a Direct Injection.

And the "tiny bit of oil" does slowly build up on the intake valves over time, and the thin layers of oil over 6+ years, and 90k miles does slowly collect any **** that slides through the air filter, and slowly blocks the intakes.

I don't think any "modern" engine is port injection anymore, as Direct Injection allows them to do things like MDS, and also just better control over where the fuel goes, so the economy goes up.

If the Hemi was a PI engine, I would 100% agree, and wouldn't give a rats butt about a couple drops of oil every hundred miles, as the fuel spray would take care of it, but again, DI.

EDIT: I swear I saw multiple sites saying the 2018 Hemi was DI. Clearly I was incorrect. I'm leaving my message here, but striking it so it's clear I was incorrect. It's apparently a multi-port injection.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Not sure where you're getting 4th generation Hemi. The 5.7 & 6.2/4 are 3rd generation Hemi engines. All are port fuel injected. MDS has been incorporated for 10 years.

 

[mikeru]

Except the 5.7L 4th gen Hemi is a Direct Injection.

Swing and a miss. The current generation Hemi is the 3rd gen, and it's port injected.

And the "tiny bit of oil" does slowly build up on the intake valves over time, and the thin layers of oil over 6+ years, and 90k miles does slowly collect any **** that slides through the air filter, and slowly blocks the intakes.

Again, not DI. No issues with intake valve carbon build-up on a port injection engine. Anyone who's reason for running a catch can on a Hemi for carbon build-up is wasting their money. If you're running one to keep the intake system cleaner then you're getting what you paid for. The argument here is whether or not it's worth keeping the intake clean.

I don't think any "modern" engine is port injection anymore, as Direct Injection allows them to do things like MDS, and also just better control over where the fuel goes, so the economy goes up.

Plenty of port injection engines around. And lots of dual injection engines as well. Direct injection has nothing to do with MDS, nor is it required for MDS operation (obviously).

If the Hemi was a PI engine, I would 100% agree, and wouldn't give a rats butt about a couple drops of oil every hundred miles, as the fuel spray would take care of it, but again, DI.

Again, not DI.

 

[Wild one]

Not sure where you're getting 4th generation Hemi. The 5.7 & 6.2/4 are 3rd generation Hemi engines. All are port fuel injected. MDS has been incorporated for 10 years.

MDS has been around for 20 years ,VVT has been on the hemi's going on 15 years.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Actually, Mike - there is carbon buildup on intake valves on port injected engines. That was the whole point of Top Tier gas double-the-detergent additives in gasoline campaign years ago. That, and keeping fuel injection nozzles clean. Recall when fuel injectors first came out in mass market in the 80's, injectors were clogging because gasoline at the time had low detergency additization.

i worked for Mobil then, and the doubled their detergent back then, ran some tests, and touted how Mobil Gas kept injectors clean. I was in commercial lubricant division, but saw all the marketing about it.

Anyway, we had a whole thread on gasoline fuel additives and Top Tier brand availability elsewhere. It's still important no matter which injection is used. When you put the injector in-cylinder, it's exposed to all the byproducts of combustion, AND has lower injection pressure than diesel injectors, so it gets plugged easier and quicker. And yeah, PCV oil mist carryover onto the valves without gasoline detergent spray dirties the intake valves, so a catch can is more valuable on DI engines. Either way, use Top Tier gasoline!

 

[Wild one]

One thing i've observed over the years and all these catch can threads,is guys who've never ran a catch can on a hemi,claim they aren't needed,while guys who have ran a catch can on a hemi swear by them.
Me personally i wouldn't run a hemi with out one,as i've observed what running with out one does to the throttle body and the inside of the intake manifold,plus throw in the fact ,that what is sucked through the pcv system effectively lowers the octane rating of the fuel you're running.So if you like running 87 or even 89 octane fuel,a catch can is going to help make sure the engine actually sees the full octane rating of the fuel you're putting in the tank.

 

[HEMIMANN]

One thing i've observed over the years and all these catch can threads,is guys who've never ran a catch can on a hemi,claim they aren't needed,while guys who have ran a catch can on a hemi swear by them.
Me personally i wouldn't run a hemi with out one,as i've observed what running with out one does to the throttle body and the inside of the intake manifold,plus throw in the fact ,that what is sucked through the pcv system effectively lowers the octane rating of the fuel you're running.So if you like running 87 or even 89 octane fuel,a catch can is going to help make sure the engine actually sees the full octane rating of the fuel you're putting in the tank.

Yep - it's a longer term issue, so guys who start having issues don't know or care it's directly related to thousands of miles of as-is factory equipment, without knowing the shortcuts taken to save pennies.

 

[mikeru]

Actually, Mike - there is carbon buildup on intake valves on port injected engines. That was the whole point of Top Tier gas double-the-detergent additives in gasoline campaign years ago. That, and keeping fuel injection nozzles clean. Recall when fuel injectors first came out in mass market in the 80's, injectors were clogging because gasoline at the time had low detergency additization.

i worked for Mobil then, and the doubled their detergent back then, ran some tests, and touted how Mobil Gas kept injectors clean. I was in commercial lubricant division, but saw all the marketing about it.

Anyway, we had a whole thread on gasoline fuel additives and Top Tier brand availability elsewhere. It's still important no matter which injection is used. When you put the injector in-cylinder, it's exposed to all the byproducts of combustion, AND has lower injection pressure than diesel injectors, so it gets plugged easier and quicker. And yeah, PCV oil mist carryover onto the valves without gasoline detergent spray dirties the intake valves, so a catch can is more valuable on DI engines. Either way, use Top Tier gasoline!

Not arguing with you, but I didn't say there's no carbon build up, just that there's no issue with it. As you mentioned, gasoline formulation has changed a lot over the years. Since this is the 5th gen forum we assume we're talking about modern engines burning modern gasoline in this thread. I think you'll agree that the small amount of carbon that builds up on the intake valves of a port injected engine has virtually zero affect on how that engine performs.

 

[Wild one]

Not arguing with you, but I didn't say there's no carbon build up, just that there's no issue with it. As you mentioned, gasoline formulation has changed a lot over the years. Since this is the 5th gen forum we assume we're talking about modern engines burning modern gasoline in this thread. I think you'll agree that the small amount of carbon that builds up on the intake valves of a port injected engine has virtually zero affect on how that engine performs.

I wouldn't go that far Mike, usually if there's a build up on the valve,it also disrupts the air flow past that valve .Once there's a carbon build up it usually turns into a compounding effect,as the fuel is no longer cleaning the valve and the build up once in place starts to accelerate.

 

[Wild one]

One test i'd like to see,but would be virtually impossible to do,is the differance in carbon build-up on the exhaust side of things,between running an engine with out a can and an engine with a can at 100,000 miles.But it'd be virtually impossible to do a legit test for that length of time,as there's to many variables.

 

[mikeru]

I wouldn't go that far Mike, usually if there's a build up on the valve,it also disrupts the air flow past that valve .Once there's a carbon build up it usually turns into a compounding effect,as the fuel is no longer cleaning the valve and the build up once in place starts to accelerate.

Maybe, Rick...but it would take a significant amount of build up to affect air flow to the point where a change in engine performance would be noticeable. I've torn down Honda engines with well over 100k on them. While there were small deposits on the intake valves, it wouldn't be enough to have an effect on anything. I have not torn down any Ram engines, but the design of the Honda engines I worked on was similar, with both having semi-hemispherical combustion chambers and port injection. Even on GDI engines, where the direction and way the air travels matters much more than with port injection, it takes a lot of carbon build up to affect performance to the point where the driver notices it.

 

[Wild one]

Maybe, Rick...but it would take a significant amount of build up to affect air flow to the point where a change in engine performance would be noticeable. I've torn down Honda engines with well over 100k on them. While there were small deposits on the intake valves, it wouldn't be enough to have an effect on anything. I have not torn down any Ram engines, but the design of the Honda engines I worked on was similar, with both having semi-hemispherical combustion chambers and port injection. Even on GDI engines, where the direction and way the air travels matters much more than with port injection, it takes a lot of carbon build up to affect performance to the point where the driver notices it.

That's true Mike. I've pulled heads off small blocks back in the carb days,with upwards of 150,000 miles on them,and the carbon build up had just about closed off the ports and they still ran pretty decent

 

[HEMIMANN]

Not arguing with you, but I didn't say there's no carbon build up, just that there's no issue with it. As you mentioned, gasoline formulation has changed a lot over the years. Since this is the 5th gen forum we assume we're talking about modern engines burning modern gasoline in this thread. I think you'll agree that the small amount of carbon that builds up on the intake valves of a port injected engine has virtually zero affect on how that engine performs.

AAA and their testing would beg to differ --->

Not All Gasoline Is Created Equal

New testing from AAA has uncovered significant differences in the quality of gasoline sold at fuel retailers in the United States. The independent laboratory testing compared gasolines that

www.aaa.com

 

[HEMIMANN]

What I recall from testing is that mpg is reduced a fair bit. Not just tenths of a mpg.

 

[mikeru]

AAA and their testing would beg to differ --->

Not All Gasoline Is Created Equal

New testing from AAA has uncovered significant differences in the quality of gasoline sold at fuel retailers in the United States. The independent laboratory testing compared gasolines that

www.aaa.com

Sorry, my bad. I wasn't saying not to use top tier fuels. You're right, people should opt for that whenever possible. The article you posted doesn't differentiate between port and direct injection engines. It refers to "newer vehicles" and "modern engine designs", many of which are direct injection. The article also doesn't mention specific areas where carbon build up affects engine performance. Carbon and other deposits can build up in other areas of the engine, not just the intake valves.

What I recall from testing is that mpg is reduced a fair bit. Not just tenths of a mpg.

I'd be interested in seeing more information about this testing if you have it handy.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Sorry, my bad. I wasn't saying not to use top tier fuels. You're right, people should opt for that whenever possible. The article you posted doesn't differentiate between port and direct injection engines. It refers to "newer vehicles" and "modern engine designs", many of which are direct injection. The article also doesn't mention specific areas where carbon build up affects engine performance. Carbon and other deposits can build up in other areas of the engine, not just the intake valves.


I'd be interested in seeing more information about this testing if you have it handy.

Did the AAA article have it?

 

[mikeru]

Did the AAA article have it?

Sorry, I missed the links at the bottom. It's an interesting article, although somewhat dated since it was written in 2016. It does mostly answer the questions I had though.

The 2-4% hit on fuel economy the article claims actually is in tenths of a mpg. For me that would be 0.3 - 0.6 mpg. Definitely a difference, but I wouldn't call it significant. I see more of an effect on mileage from taking a different route to work.

On a side note I'm wondering how many gas stations sell gas that's not top tier in current times. I drove around to my local gas stations last night looking for one. We have four stations in my small town and all of them sell top tier.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Sorry, I missed the links at the bottom. It's an interesting article, although somewhat dated since it was written in 2016. It does mostly answer the questions I had though.

The 2-4% hit on fuel economy the article claims actually is in tenths of a mpg. For me that would be 0.3 - 0.6 mpg. Definitely a difference, but I wouldn't call it significant. I see more of an effect on mileage from taking a different route to work.

On a side note I'm wondering how many gas stations sell gas that's not top tier in current times. I drove around to my local gas stations last night looking for one. We have four stations in my small town and all of them sell top tier.

The list has shrunk a lot. BP dropped off, claims their still TT but won't pay for licensing. Ha, sure.

Kwik Trip dropped off. Probably the #1 retailer around here in the upper midwest. Claimed additive "too hard to get" (I have a letter from them stating this), but they "guarantee their gas" (to what? for how long? how to prove?). Ha, sure.

I don't even see Top Tier stickers at stations anymore for those that are still on the list. ---> https://www.toptiergas.com/gasoline-brands/

Shell, Mobil, Arco, Circle K are on the TT list.