RAM CARES and DRAG LINK RECALL !

[chrisbh17]

where the hell are you getting your info? the official recall document says nothing of the threads. if you knew anything about jam nuts, by design they can have a inherent risk of loosening, depending on configuration and the type of envirnment theyre used. the recall document says clear as day the jam nut may loosen. youve taken it upon yourself to speculate why the nuts loosens and post your nonsense as fact

https://www.ramforum.com/posts/2099175/

 

[Team Horner]

where the hell are you getting your info? the official recall document says nothing of the threads. if you knew anything about jam nuts, by design they can have a inherent risk of loosening, depending on configuration and the type of envirnment theyre used. the recall document says clear as day the jam nut may loosen. youve taken it upon yourself to speculate why the nuts loosens and post your nonsense as fact

This link has been posted before, but here it is again:

https://chrysler.oemdtc.com/1209/sa...-021-steering-linkage-2013-2017-ram-2500-3500

1. Using Vernier Calipers, measure and record the major outside diameter of the outer drag link threads 5mm (0.20 in. - approx 3 threads) from paint mark denoting end of turnbuckle (Figure 6). Be sure to measure using the flats on the calipers, do not measure inside the thread pitch (Figure 6).

NOTE: Measure the outside diameter at two different locations (90° from each other). Use the smallest measurement.

Record smallest outer thread diameter (Step 5):

Record largest inner thread diameter (Step 4):

Subtract (smallest outer – largest inner):

• If the result of the subtraction is 0.6 mm (0.024 in) or less, continue to section Replace Drag Link Assembly.

• If the result of the subtraction is greater than 0.6 mm (0.024 in), assemble the turnbuckle and continue to section Weld Turnbuckle Jam Nuts.

 

[chrisbh17]

This link has been posted before, but here it is again:

https://chrysler.oemdtc.com/1209/sa...-021-steering-linkage-2013-2017-ram-2500-3500

1. Using Vernier Calipers, measure and record the major outside diameter of the outer drag link threads 5mm (0.20 in. - approx 3 threads) from paint mark denoting end of turnbuckle (Figure 6). Be sure to measure using the flats on the calipers, do not measure inside the thread pitch (Figure 6).

NOTE: Measure the outside diameter at two different locations (90° from each other). Use the smallest measurement.

Record smallest outer thread diameter (Step 5):

Record largest inner thread diameter (Step 4):

Subtract (smallest outer – largest inner):

• If the result of the subtraction is 0.6 mm (0.024 in) or less, continue to section Replace Drag Link Assembly.

• If the result of the subtraction is greater than 0.6 mm (0.024 in), assemble the turnbuckle and continue to section Weld Turnbuckle Jam Nuts.

What he said

So, they are measuring THREADS to determine if the whole drag link needs to be replaced.

The fact they go that far to do it, why not just replace the darn thing? Especially now that they have an updated/fixed part?

 

[crazy jerry]

What he said

So, they are measuring THREADS to determine if the whole drag link needs to be replaced.

The fact they go that far to do it, why not just replace the darn thing? Especially now that they have an updated/fixed part?

theyre measuring diameter of the shaft . to see if its stretched i suppose. maybe the engineer miscalculated what torque needed to be on the nut

 

[crazy jerry]

if the nut was not tightened enough, it was simply just loosen itself. if it was tighten to much it likely would damage the threads AND probly loosen. i suspect some nuts may have been over tightened. this would explain why some dealers are just retightening the nuts with undamaged threads and using tack welds. links with damaged threads will be replaced. so basically if the nut will hold the torq spec then it gets retightened and tack weld. if wont hold torq then gets replaced

 

[pacofortacos]

What he said

So, they are measuring THREADS to determine if the whole drag link needs to be replaced.

The fact they go that far to do it, why not just replace the darn thing? Especially now that they have an updated/fixed part?

Duh, cost. Why spend millions of $$ when the parts aren't defective??

I am sure they could do better at the explanation of the fix, but even then I am doubtful if many people would grasp it.

It's as simple as perform the inspection, failed parts get replaced, non-defective parts get reassembled and torqued to spec then welded to prevent any future issue.

 

[pacofortacos]

The flaw in your logic is simply that whether the threads are or are not ok, by welding the jamb nuts, the truck is altered from its as designed, as purchased form.

It's not a matter of a recall to check a part, some are ok others are not. The jamb nuts are being welded so clearly the part is bad.

The only appropriate repair is to replace the defective drag link with the revised part, thereby returning the truck to the same design and form (with a drag link that's adjustable) that we purchased it.

Putting a small weld on a nut is not altering anything.
Also every updated part that ever get installed is "altering the truck from it's as designed, as purchased form".
No where is that even a thing as parts get changed quite often with updated parts.

So if a truck is brought in, jamb nut is still tight, drag link parts all pass inspection and are to spec, how is it possible to say those parts are defective.

 

[pacofortacos]

theyre measuring diameter of the shaft . to see if its stretched i suppose. maybe the engineer miscalculated what torque needed to be on the nut

It seems as if they are measuring the thread depth engagement within the drag link parts (drag link to turnbuckle) - not the nut area threads.
If the threads between the drag link and turnbuckle are not correct and can rock, it would most likely loosen the nut over time.
Or if the nut became loose, the rocking of the threads between the drag link and turnbuckle could cause damage over time.
I don't know which situation was the actual problem.

"Repair
Inspect the torque values. If the torque values meet requirement, the nuts will be welded to the adjuster sleeve. If the torque values do not meet requirement, the threads will be measured. If thread engagement is acceptable, the link will be reassembled, the vehicle will be aligned, and the nuts will be welded to the adjuster sleeve. If the thread engagement is not adequate, the drag link assembly will be replaced"

 

[Fitz-0518]

Not a design or engineering defect. It is a part defect. Thread depth, pitch and turn are wrong on several thousand parts in the assembly run. Trucks assembled before and after this part drop are fine. This is such a simple fix. They know which trucks are effected. Install the "manufactured to spec" drag link on those trucks. Instead they choose to be business fools and cheap out (will not have to repair all of the bad run parts) and to hell with customer responsibility.

 

[GsRAM]

Putting a small weld on a nut is not altering anything.
Also every updated part that ever get installed is "altering the truck from it's as designed, as purchased form".
No where is that even a thing as parts get changed quite often with updated parts.

So if a truck is brought in, jamb nut is still tight, drag link parts all pass inspection and are to spec, how is it possible to say those parts are defective.

Sure it is! Did we buy our trucks that way? When I bought my truck, day one did I have to cut welds off to set the steer ahead adjustment? Would i have purchased it that way? No! Period.

The welding fix alters the truck from the way we purchased it. It was sold to us and designed with an adjustable drag link able to be adjusted with hand tools and not an angle grinder and a welder!

There's no arguement here. If you want to accept that on your HD truck, (if you even own one....you signature says 5.7) then by all means go ahead. That's on you. If you maintain and keep your vehicles as long as I do, eventually those welded components will be junk from cutting and rewelding every time a wheel alignment is done.

That is not acceptable to me and shouldn't be to anyone else.

 

[pacofortacos]

Not a design or engineering defect. It is a part defect. Thread depth, pitch and turn are wrong on several thousand parts in the assembly run. Trucks assembled before and after this part drop are fine. This is such a simple fix. They know which trucks are effected. Install the "manufactured to spec" drag link on those trucks. Instead they choose to be business fools and cheap out (will not have to repair all of the bad run parts) and to hell with customer responsibility.

How do you know this???

What if the jamb nut was not torqued to spec and it became loose? Have you ever seen what happens to threads if they are allowed to move over time?

 

[pacofortacos]

Sure it is! Did we buy our trucks that way? When I bought my truck, day one did I have to cut welds off to set the steer ahead adjustment? Would i have purchased it that way? No! Period.

The welding fix alters the truck from the way we purchased it. It was sold to us and designed with an adjustable drag link able to be adjusted with hand tools and not an angle grinder and a welder!

There's no arguement here. If you want to accept that on your HD truck, (if you even own one....you signature says 5.7) then by all means go ahead. That's on you. If you maintain and keep your vehicles as long as I do, eventually those welded components will be junk from cutting and rewelding every time a wheel alignment is done.

That is not acceptable to me and shouldn't be to anyone else.

I do not own an HD.
So, I guess me trying to explain what the recall is, makes my explanation invalid.

Chances are I keep my trucks as long or longer than you might.

Why do you accept non-greaseable steering components or u-joints then - which you usually grease those components yearly vs. an alignment that is seldom done?

Personally, if it was mine and I didn't want it welded, I would crawl under and check it per the recall procedure - if still good, I would double jamb nut and loctite the nuts. Still adjustable and fixed.

 

[RamCares]

Hi Kate, PM Sent.

Thanks,
Greg

Hey, Greg.

I have replied to your private message. Please continue to work with me there.

Kate
RamCares

 

[GsRAM]

I do not own an HD.
So, I guess me trying to explain what the recall is, makes my explanation invalid.

Chances are I keep my trucks as long or longer than you might.

Why do you accept non-greaseable steering components or u-joints then - which you usually grease those components yearly vs. an alignment that is seldom done?

Personally, if it was mine and I didn't want it welded, I would crawl under and check it per the recall procedure - if still good, I would double jamb nut and loctite the nuts. Still adjustable and fixed.

Where in my post did I state that you have to own an HD truck to make your point valid? I made no such question, I asked the question and you answered it.

Your logic is comparing an apple to an orange. The OEM steering components don't have grease fittings, so if one was deemed defective and they replaced it with one that didn't have a grease fitting, that's fine, the truck and it's steering components were returned to their original form.

Whether I have an alignment done 5 times in the truck's life or 50 times is irrelevant. I bought the truck with an adjustable drag link and through no fault of my own a defective drag link was installed by FCA at time of manufacture. Period, there's no disputing that fact. My truck, post recall should be in the same condition, same form it was when I purchased it, no more, no less.

Welding the jamb nuts on my drag link is giving us less than what we had pre-recall and for me, personally, that is not acceptable.

I have over 30 years of mechanical experience on everything from RC cars to Semi trucks and I can weld, but why would I want to have to cut welds off and re-weld my drag link over and over if the steering wheel is not centered, when the day I purchased my truck it could be adjusted with wrenches only?

Yes, I have been checking mine, and the jamb nuts are still tight and the original factory witness mark is just as it was when it left the factory. But this needs to be addressed.

I will most likely purchase the FCA updated drag link, install it myself and then file for reimbursement through FCA.

 

[pacofortacos]

I wonder if the split style is as strong as the solid - I have seen the split style bend with a hard wheel hit (granted on cars usually but that design is a very old design), but maybe a sacrificial part isn't a bad idea in the case of a hard side hit.

 

[crazy jerry]

It seems as if they are measuring the thread depth engagement within the drag link parts (drag link to turnbuckle) - not the nut area threads.
If the threads between the drag link and turnbuckle are not correct and can rock, it would most likely loosen the nut over time.
Or if the nut became loose, the rocking of the threads between the drag link and turnbuckle could cause damage over time.
I don't know which situation was the actual problem.

"Repair
Inspect the torque values. If the torque values meet requirement, the nuts will be welded to the adjuster sleeve. If the torque values do not meet requirement, the threads will be measured. If thread engagement is acceptable, the link will be reassembled, the vehicle will be aligned, and the nuts will be welded to the adjuster sleeve. If the thread engagement is not adequate, the drag link assembly will be replaced"

it says to measure major outside diameter with calipers. presumably under the nut. this leads me to believe it has nothing to do with poor maching but rather the nut was over tightened as that could cause thread distortion and stretch the shaft and thus create the out of round condition theyre checking for

 

[pacofortacos]

it says to measure major outside diameter with calipers. presumably under the nut. this leads me to believe it has nothing to do with poor maching but rather the nut was over tightened as that could cause thread distortion and stretch the shaft and thus create the out of round condition theyre checking for

If you look at the pictures though, it is measuring the female threads in the turnbuckle and drag link male threads that would be inside the turnbuckle.
I don't think it was poor machining either, I think it was an incorrectly torqued nut which would lead to the threads inside the turnbuckle getting hammered over time.
A loose nut would not put a load on the draglink/turnbuckle threads and would allow the male and female threads to rock against each other - which would wear them out.

 

[BLUEDERANGO]

So I think we kinda/sorta got off track with this thread.
Everyone has an opinion about the cause of the recall, everyone has an opinion about the proper way to deal with the recall,which is just fine.
The majority seem to think welding the nuts is wrong and I agree. In the annals of automotive history I seriously doubt there was ever another manufacturer that prescribed welding an adjustable part. There seems to be enough documentation of shops refusing to do alignments on trucks with welded draglinks.
The BIG part of this whole situation is FCA's handling of the recall. If I am not mistaken the recall was a result of a NTSB investigation and their demands for said recall.
The other seemingly BIG issue is FCA and RAM CARES reimbursement (or lack thereof) policies that seem to have no specific guidelines, some get reimbursed and some don't, which is just plain WRONG. My understanding is that the NTSB has reopened this case and is again taking a second look as they don't seem to like the "weld & go away" any better than we do. FCA has the part to permanently fix the issue but for some strange and unbelievable reason they are refusing to do so.
So, believe as you may but this issue is not going to go away until FCA steps up and does the right thing,, (Not holding by breath)

 

[chrisbh17]

......FCA has the part to permanently fix the issue but for some strange and unbelievable reason they are refusing to do so.
So, believe as you may but this issue is not going to go away until FCA steps up and does the right thing,, (Not holding by breath)

Because NHTSA approved the weld and go away, at least initially.

And replacing parts costs more money than weld and go away.

 

[GsRAM]

Hey, Greg.

I have replied to your private message. Please continue to work with me there.

Kate
RamCares

Kate - I sent a reply to your message and am waiting for your reply and the requested information.

Thank you.